Penn State Sandusky Trial #11 (Verdict - GUILTY!)

[BennyProfane]

Let's look at this logically. They are looking at a witness that tells us about another witness, McQueary. It means that they think McQueary might have seen what he said he saw. They are not looking at the other victims.

1. It's the first step in a process, a starting point.

2. They don't believe any of the uncorroborated victims, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10.

3. They are looking at the cases where there is no victim, 2 and 8.

If it's 2 or 3, Victims 1 and 6 are still in play, maybe Victim 4.

4. If they convict on 2, it reflects on Paterno.

Not sure if these are different (opposing) theories, but I don't see how the jury request leads to your second point. They may have already moved past accepting Victim 9 at his word -- or any of the he said/he said instances -- and are now at the more convoluted aspect of deliberation. As though they're saving the toughest for last.

 

[BennyProfane]

What gets me is that abuse runs in cycles... i'm fairly confident this behavior on Sanduskys part wasn't self originating, but how many __new__ cycles of abuse has he created over the decades?!

so ****ing sad.

Somebody in the Patriot-News comments section pointed out an interesting connection:
Sandusky seemed to lose interest sexually in these kids when they were about 15, which not-so-coincidentally is the age Matt & his adoptive brother Jon were when the first documented case occurred against a non-family member...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Not sure if these are different (opposing) theories, but I don't see how the jury request leads to your second point. They may have already moved past accepting Victim 9 at his word -- or any of the he said/he said instances -- and are now at the more convoluted aspect of deliberation. As though they're saving the toughest for last.

Conversely, they could have determined that all the victims that testified were telling the truth, but that could be the case with option 3.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J. in Phila,
RE: Ray Gricar, I drive some folks who are members of something called
"The Pennsylvania Society". Some sort of political club or something (one lady mentioned she worked as an intern for Reagan when he was President, so I guess it's a pretty big deal). They always stay at the Waldorf-Astoria.
Anyway, when this broke, they were ALL foaming at the mouth and wanted JoePa's head, amongst others. And most of them thought that RG was paid off by someone at Penn State, and intentionaly dissapeared.
Just thought you'd like to know.
Again, thanks for the great coverage!

The Pennsylvania Society is a club made up of political and business leaders that has its December gala in NYC. It is the prime yearly meeting of PA movers and shakers (I am not a member).

I've heard the same suggestion from people who knew RFG, slightly, and people following the case. There is no evidence of that. As noted, for what he was making, and his lifestyle, his assets were low.

I will say this, his closest friend, and a lot of people in the county, think he walked away. I am waiting for more definitive evidence.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...makes me want to vomit...

I'm waaaaay behind here, but I just have to agree. Revolting.

What normal heterosexual adult man writes such things to young boys?

Please God, let the jury have enough common sense to ask themselves the same. raying:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

IIRC Dranov testified that McQ was more shaken and upset than he had ever seen him. Dranov said McQ's voice was trembling, his hands were trembling, he was visibly shaking. Dranov said when asked McQ what happened he would continue to get visibly upset.

Yes and I think that detail is more powerful than the discrepancies between what MM said on the stand and what Dranov recalled MM saying he saw that night.

Please God. raying: again

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes and I think that detail is more powerful than the discrepancies between what MM said on the stand and what Dranov recalled MM saying he saw that night.

Please God. raying: again

For me, that strengthened McQueary's testimony.

 

[LNL]

I have a question. Do Jerry and Dottie have any biological children? Or are all of their children adopted? Just curious.

They do not have any biological children. All were either foster kids or adopted.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I agree. I find it somewhat comforting that he says multiple people were in the wrong here. He says even Paterno made a mistake. My cousin just finished his first year at Penn State and it seems to me that even students know Sandusky is guilty. The outrage was more about Paterno being fired.

It does bother me that so many of the jurors have a connection with Penn State, but let's hope school pride gets put to the side here!

BBM: I understand your point, but how could anyone take pride in going to a school that it's pretty clear enabled a pedophile in so many ways?

I wrote this on an earlier thread, but if it were my alma mater I would never claim association with the institution again, insofar as I could avoid it, if the jury acquits.

I hope the jurors with PSU ties feel the same way. If not, Happy Valley will clearly have proved itself to be not Happy Valley but CENTRAL PENNSYLVANIA GOTHIC!

And the entire world will recognize that.

 

[Elphaba]

Ok, call me stupid, but someone please explain to me Central Pennsylvania Gothic? I've seen it said over and over and I'm at a loss. Feel free to put me in the corner with a dunce cap on after someone explains it...

 

[IzzyBlanche]

What gets me is that abuse runs in cycles... i'm fairly confident this behavior on Sanduskys part wasn't self originating, but how many __new__ cycles of abuse has he created over the decades?!

so ****ing sad.

Just jumping off from your post:

Abuse does run in cycles, but I had two extremely close (male) friends who confided in me that they were victims of childhood sexual abuse, and I am 100% sure that both of them would have cut their own arms off before inflicting on a child the same suffering they endured.

I say "would have" because both are dead, one by suicide and the other by self-neglect (some would say same thing).

Apart from my personal experience, IIRC there are many studies indicating that the majority of children who suffer sexual abuse do NOT go on to abuse children as adults.

But some, of course, do.

Then again, other child abusers spring up from immaculate backgrounds.

So who knows.

 

[passionflower]

I only wish the son that was molested would of been a chance to tell his story! That would of sealed the deal. Please don't let this pervert walk the streets again!

 

[pingpattern]

Ok, call me stupid, but someone please explain to me Central Pennsylvania Gothic? I've seen it said over and over and I'm at a loss. Feel free to put me in the corner with a dunce cap on after someone explains it...

Its just a play on words with literary terminology.
Nothing to be taken seriously, I promise. Flannery O Connor would have little if anything to do with this situation. Its just someone trying to commentate poetic.

Eta: just google southern gothic and you'll see the connection... Albeit an extremely loose one imho.

 

[ynotdivein]

Rock Center ‏@RockCenterNBC

MT @tvkatesnow As I reported on ‪#RockCenter‬: Weaver is in 2nd wave of accusers. Prosecutors may pursue fed charges if jury finds not guilty

https://twitter.com/8CumbCoReport/status/216015493725827074

 

[Bravo]

I said it earlier today and I'll say it again. This is far from over. Kudos to his Son for coming forward. I hope the rest of his Brothers follow as i believe they were all molested. So many have lived the guilt, fear and shame. And tenfold because of who Sandusky was. So Dottie is your own Son one of those troubled liars too :banghead:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

For me, that strengthened McQueary's testimony.

Me too. The exact details of what someone said during a conversation may change--especially after how many years?--but the affect of the other person sticks in one's mind.

I hope the jury agrees with us.

Random O/T comments: It really sucks sometimes being on the West Coast. When I get up in the morning the threads are hundreds of posts ahead of me; when I am finally caught up and prepared to discuss the case, like now, everyone else seems to have checked out for the night. Harumph.

OTOH, I won't mention the temperature here for all of you sweltering in other time zones. Suggestion: at the drugstore get one of those cold packs for neck pain, freeze it according to the directions and wear it around your neck. It really works to help you stay cool! :seeya:

 

[ynotdivein]

Its just a play on words with literary terminology.
Nothing to be taken seriously, I promise. Flannery O Connor would have little if anything to do with this situation. Its just someone trying to commentate poetic.

IMO Flannery O'Connor might have appreciated the reference.

Also IMO Southern Gothic literature is close cousin to our contemporary Central Pennsylvania Gothic.

 

[JSR]

RBBM--I tend to agree JSR, but would love to hear your reasons.

I tend to think that juries that are sequestered together for long trials end up with more powerful and connected "group think". Even if they haven't talked about a case until deliberations, which from reports from the Anthony case that jury instruction was not adhered to, they are around each other 24/7. And they are away from everything and everyone that is normal to them. It becomes much harder to disagree with a assertive or aggressive juror. I'm positive that had the Pinellas 12 jury not been completely sequestered it would have been a hung jury. And in the Anthony case they were upset to be held over the fourth of July holiday and honestly just wanted it over with even if it meant not giving a little 2 year old murder victim justice. Basically they just wanted to go home and you run that risk with sequestered juries.

It also didn't help that any potential juror who heard too much about the case had to be automatically striken. That left a pool of potential jurors that are by nature skeptical. Add in 12 people who don't think juries should connect the dots and you have the ending that we saw in the Anthony case.

What gives me hope is that this particular jury are very highly educated.

 

[okiedokietoo]

if this was already posted I will remove
http://www.bradenton.com/2012/06/21/4087303/bob-ford-if-sandusky-is-convicted.html
Published: June 21, 2012
***talks about info former fbi director hired by the board of trustees found and turned over to LE about what others at Penn knew about Sandusky and how that info isn't the same as their GJ Testimony***

 

[pingpattern]

IMO Flannery O'Connor might have appreciated the reference.

Also IMO Southern Gothic literature is close cousin to our contemporary Central Pennsylvania Gothic.

Haha, yes, I'll buy that on the coverup aspect, and it taking place in "happy valley".