Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #11

[Linda7NJ]

I agree 100% with you ....While Joran is sitting in his cell today, with all the inhumanity activity going on around him...he could be reflecting on his life..and what he should/could have done....but I have a feeling he is putting all his thoughts/attention...just..figuring out...how to STAY ALIVE/keep from getting raped/eaten alive by rats/insects......in that he- - hole...

His actions have put him there...He has NO ONE to blame..

He will never be reflective or accept responsibility. He can't. It was all their fault, the girls MADE him kill them..............he will spent the next 35 years ...if he lives that long....wondering why bad things always happen TO him!

 

[Beyond Belief]

I know nobody really cares it this did happen, but could all the events back in 05, the responsibility of taking a life, the arrests, the aftermath, etc. actually drive a person 17, 18 years old insane?

 

[BloodshotEye]

I find it so very interesting that JVDS's first (that we know of) murder was "dealt with" in HIS realm, under HIS prominent father's supervision, that he was protected under that umbrella of prominence. How just and ironic, that his downfall should be within another realm, one of a young lady with a prominent father.
AquaEyes

I agree. Not unlike in the U.S., it is amazing what money and connections can do for you, when you are accused of a crime, and must proceed through the court system. Money changes everything.

 

[seagull65]

I have to go to work now but I wanted to say thanks to everyone. This is such a decent thread even though there are differences of opinion no one attacks anyone just constructive conversation. Hope to talk to you all later...

I agree Nort, thank you for posting that. I can't believe I was up all night chatting, that hasn't happened in a long time, it was really fun I've enjoyed everyone's ideas here. It really is special when different viewpoints can be expressed without people getting rude etc. You guys all rock! :bananalama:

 

[Kimmer]

I still feel that the only thing that would have kept SF in that room to confront JV about (if she was alive when he left for coffee which I don't belive with him having on a diffrent shirt) would have been him stealing her blind and to try and get her money back.....I still think after arriving back at the hotel the first time she may have been in the bathroom and came out and caught him stealing her money and the fight ensued and at that point he killed her....That would explain the early reports that an argument was heard in the room....

 

[jon_burrows]

There is an interesting documentary on youtube called 'Locked Up Abroad, Peru'. It's about two American teenagers that are offered a free trip to Peru in exchange for bringing back cocaine. It's an interesting look into the way the legal system works in Peru and a glance inside the prison walls. They talk about roaches crawling up their legs at night and rat tails/roaches in the food.

I think Joran is in for the shock of his life no matter what prison he is in.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAzF87_BI0I&feature=fvw[/ame]

IMO

 

[hollyblue]

bumping...

Can someone tell me what a 'JK report' is or a link to this information, please?

I'd like to know too; plus I've asked this before also:

Does anyone know if there was ever any mention of WHEN JVS bought his plane ticket to Columbia? I want to know if it was before May 10th (extortion and wire fraud) or after. I have don't remember ever hearing about it...Something else for the reporter(s) to investigate. IMO TIA

 

[justus4all]

I know nobody really cares it this did happen, but could all the events back in 05, the responsibility of taking a life, the arrests, the aftermath, etc. actually drive a person 17, 18 years old insane?

I am not sure about that...but I would guess that if your family was covering for you over a murder you did, hiding the evidence, cleaning up your mess, lying to the world, making the fault someone else's......would perhaps...make one feel like ...Gee...I don't have to take responsibiltiy for my actions...LYING is the NEW WAY..out of my troubles...

I believe Joran's family...helped put him...where he ended up today...By allowing him to be irresponsible...to lie .....enabling his bad behavior..until he murdered again...this time...without Daddy...IMO

 

[sugarmrpoon]

http://www.gambling911.com/poker/va...er-tourney-wins-only-wanted-girls-061110.html

This story indicates that ''recently'' JVS won $12K --

Yes. He played under the name AANOTILTKK on party poker. You can go to sharkscope.com and look up his record. He was a losing player. Looks like he got lucky in a NL Texas Holdem Sunday Million Tournament and finished in the top 30 or so for a 12K payout.

 

[georger]

He will never be reflective or accept responsibility. He can't. It was all their fault, the girls MADE him kill them..............he will spent the next 35 years ...if he lives that long....wondering why bad things always happen TO him!

I agree with you. I think his psychology is rather simple, ie. SURVIVE.
Right now he is sleeping, worn out, scared to death. He is probably hoping
his attorney or some outsider comes through with something in his favour,
but he probably doesnt trust that either. He doesnt trust anything or
anyone. This guy doesnt take outside advice or structure. I would expect
Joran is in a complete self-preservation mode at this point and probably
regretting he was 'forced' to cooperate at all. In his circumstances anything amounts to "coercion" in his book. He is looking for outside help
and favours ... from anyone.

 

[omegagal]

Then there's always the biblical reference:

"And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."

Just sayin'...

Old Testament Justice... (eye for an eye)

vs/

New Testament Justice... (what would Jesus do?)

I think you can't teach people torture as punishment as some might actually like it... I say torture him until we locate Natalee and then... lock him up and throw away the key... just don't tell us you're torturing him.... ahahahaha....maybe I'm just tired from staying up nights on end catching up with the latest but that's how I'm feeling right now.

:dance:

 

[georger]

I agree Nort, thank you for posting that. I can't believe I was up all night chatting, that hasn't happened in a long time, it was really fun I've enjoyed everyone's ideas here. It really is special when different viewpoints can be expressed without people getting rude etc. You guys all rock! :bananalama:

see you tonight!

 

[seagull65]

Would this first part mean he is (criminally) insane?


On a completely different line of thought,

Did you see the Peruvian shamans putting the hex on him [on CNN] a few days ago? That was a new one for me.

oh I didn't see that but I think I heard about it, about a religious ceremony by one religious group outside the police station or something. Is that what they were? I hope they were offering a prayer for truth, we need all of those we can get

p.s. I'm not sure how criminal insanity is defined in their system. In our system plenty of truly insane people are convicted anyway. People who just had the misfortune to have a head injury when they were young or to have various brain disorders or to have inherited schizophrenia or whatever.

Did someone say Joran has two brothers? I didn't realize that.
I feel very sorry for his family, especially his mother. Of course I have no idea what she's like, but I would imagine she is suffering a great deal.
I don't mean any disrespect to the families of the victims in saying that.

 

[laura08]

The DO have trials with a 3 judge panel. He hasn't been sentenced yet. He goes to prison until the trial which could be several years. This is how I understand it.

I think you are right, the article I read said the judge decides and no trials. I went and researched and it spoke of other crimes and mentioned 3 judge panel. Thanks

 

[hollyblue]

Although I am an advocate of justice for victims, I am just plain weak at seeing anyone being mistreated or humiliated. I know I am weird, I can't help it, can't explain it. I don't believe in revenge, but I believe in karma.

I think the idea of "expelling" to an island (like they use to do) is the best yet. Self justice within their peers, and they are more or less not thought about again. Plus the expense is practically nil. Sorry, but the prision system, at least in the US is big business now. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if in the future they are not privatized. jMO

 

[georger]

Yes. He played under the name AANOTILTKK on party poker. You can go to sharkscope.com and look up his record. He was a losing player. Looks like he got lucky in a NL Texas Holdem Sunday Million Tournament and finished in the top 30 or so for a 12K payout.

He had multiple nyms on various sites - one was something like Joran88.
On CNN one night his old attorney refused to disclose where or how
he gets his money. (people laughed). This old attorney if his was
completely 'supercilious' in his defense (all prior to him being charged
of course). She tried to claim he was being set up blah blah blah ...
I wishI had been there to ask her: "Where or how are you being paid for this!?".

 

[SleuthyGal]

JVDS is not criminally insane. He knows right from wrong. In fact, he ran to Chile after the murder, which is consciousness of guilt (i.e. knowing he committed a murder and knowing it was wrong). Further, he attempted to disguise his appearance by lightening his hair, another indicator.

We're never going to know what exactly set him off. Why? Because he's never going to tell the truth! It could be anything...or nothing...he is known to have a hair trigger temper. He has no impulse control. He is also known to be a pathological liar--and likes making a game out of lying and then lying some more.

So all of this is interesting, but ultimately a fruitless exercise in guessing, with no confirmation.

But: he will not get away with the crime, he is not insane, he knows right from wrong, he does display what is considered psychopathic tendencies, he is remorseless, he is a liar, and he will not ever change at his core. He is what he is. He was that way when he was 13 and he's the same today (just larger and even more dangerous).

He will do just fine in that Castro Castro prison--he's physically larger than everyone else, just as cunning, will get more cunning and cutthroat in the days ahead, will make his little deals on the side, and will probably have a few guards eating out of his hands eventually. Don't you (all) worry about poor little JVDS. He is not a lamb to the slaughter--he earned his way into that prison and will fit in quite well.

 

[justus4all]

JVDS is not criminally insane. He knows right from wrong. If fact, he ran to Chile after the murder, which is consciousness of guilt (i.e. knowing he committed a murder and knowing it was wrong). Further, he attempted to disguise his appearance by lightening his hair, another indicator.

We've never going to know what exactly set him off. Why? Because he's never going to tell the truth! It could be anything...or nothing...he is known to have a hair trigger temper. He has no impulse control. He is also known to be a pathological liar--and likes making a game out of lying and then lying some more.

So all of this is interesting, but ultimately a fruitless exercise in guessing with no confirmation.

But: he will not get away with the crime, he is not insane, he knows right from wrong, he does display what is considered psychopathic tendencies, he is remorseless, he is a liar, and he will not ever change at his core. He is what he is. He was that way when he was 13 and he's the same today (just larger and even more dangerous).

He will do just fine in that Castro Castro prison--he's physically larger than everyone else, just as cunning, will get more cunning and cutthroat in the days ahead, will make his little deals on the side, and will probably have a few guards eating out of his hands eventually. Don't you (all) worry about poor little JVDS. He is not a lamb to the slaughter--he earned his way into that prison and will fit in quite well.

I agree with that...If I stop and think about it....He has been honing and developing his behavior all these years...TO ACTUALLY..fit right in....

 

[seagull65]

I think the idea of "expelling" to an island (like they use to do) is the best yet. Self justice within their peers, and they are more or less not thought about again. Plus the expense is practically nil. Sorry, but the prision system, at least in the US is big business now. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if in the future they are not privatized. jMO

I think a lot of prisons are already privatized here aren't they? And it's pretty scary because there's a lot of abuse that goes on, shock belts, and the list goes on. When you're in prison you're completely helpless. During your trial your lawyer and others will see you from time to time and know what's going on with you more or less, but not after that. If the prison doesn't want your family to see you while you're beaten up or whatever, all they have to do is say you refused the visit. Our prisons are not so much better than other prisons, except they have air conditioning and pest control.

 

[BloodshotEye]

JVDS reasoning early on:
The argument, physical fight, and he knocks her out. Finishes it.
He thinks about putting her body in the duffle bag. Can't do it. She is too heavy. Suit case or duffle is not large enough.

He re-thinks this.

He re-positions the body. He is going to say, "I left her to sleep it off. She was drunk. She must have got up, and hit her head on the bed frame. How terrible, but not my fault". Yea. That works.

Now he must jump through a few hoops, to make this believable.
He is thinking on his feet, as much as anything. No plan, he is deciding, second by second.

I agree with someone back a page or two: He may have stepped outside the door, initially to see if anyone was out there. Did anyone hear anything? No; good.
He is in the hallway, and it is a perfect opportunity to get someone from housekeeping, to witness him carrying two coffee cups,

He believes his plan is coming together. His story is, he left her alive, but sleeping it off. She must have fallen and ... He tells housekeeping, "not to disturb my girl" (if that report is correct).

Why did JVDS confess so quickly?
The Peru National Police and Interpol must have presented a very compelling case of evidence to JVDS. Layed their cards on the table, so to speak. In the manner a Poker player would understand - face up! Here's what we've got. No b.s. with months of "discovery" and both sides making endless motion about lack of time for discovery, etc. etc.

Courts in the U.S. ought to take note.