Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #11

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For those who might be interested, Surinam (Suriname) is not a Dutch colony. It is a country on its own and has been since 1975.

Oh Good! I can scratch the Dutch flotila floating on Amsterdam prophos,
with British support guns blazing. Doesnt Holland still have a Queen or King or something? Will they go see Joran?

Im being sarcastic in direct response to the nonsense spew from Dutch embassies these past days... SAVE JORAN! :angel:
 
I certainly don't want him tortured and killed, either. Or even raped. All I wish for him is a long prison sentence, and for him to feel the loss of freedom and everything else that goes along with being detained. I do hope the food is bad, though. I am glad he's off the streets of this planet and unable to murder anyone else. I certainly think he should be locked up for life, if not a life sentence in Peru, then a sentence for extortion immediately following his release from Peru's prison, and possibly a sentence for murdering Natalee, if her remains are ever recovered. Its good, IMO, he won't have the cushy lifestyle afforded to American prisoners, TV's, and other priviledges, in Peru. At last I hope not. JMO

abbie

Castro Castro and Lurigancho make any prison in America or Aruba look like Disneyland. I could not imagine a more fitting karmic end for Joran's cocky reign of terror. I'm not into rape & torture as justice because it is uncivilized and I'm no barbarian... but for him to spend his days rotting like trash with trash in trash is perfect.
 
Thank you num! I was looking at Argentina too. Can't find a description of their formal treaty with the Netherlands. It's not really important to the case but it's just something I wanted to have a look at for myself.


I did not properly fact check Suriname, they are not a Dutch territory:

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname[/ame]
 
I've seen comments here that JVDS is not a psychopath. Well I was curious about the definition and I looked it up. This is only a small portion of the total article but here's the relevent verbiage. If this doesn't describe JVDS to a 'T' I don't know what does:

"Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by an abnormal lack of empathy combined with strongly amoral conduct, masked by an ability to appear outwardly normal. Researcher Robert Hare, whose Hare Psychopathy Checklist is widely used, describes psychopaths as "intraspecies predators" as does R.I. Simon. Elsewhere Hare and others write that psychopaths "use charisma, manipulation, intimidation, sexual intercourse and violence to control others and to satisfy their own needs." Hare states that: "Lacking in conscience and empathy, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse".

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy[/ame]
 
I find it so very interesting that JVDS's first (that we know of) murder was "dealt with" in HIS realm, under HIS prominent father's supervision, that he was protected under that umbrella of prominence. How just and ironic, that his downfall should be within another realm, one of a young lady with a prominent father.
AquaEyes
 
oh I agree Jwarner. I don't think he appears to be calculating, or self-serving. More the opposite. I wouldn't be surprised if he has episodes where he loses control or even awareness, there could be rage during the episodes, or maybe not. I thought he looked dazed and confused standing at the door. Of course the NG types like to insist he's a "Psychopath" (i.e. aware of what he's doing, antisocial personality), (and he could be), but schizophrenic or manic episodes, and a few other conditions, would have to be ruled out and we'd have to know a lot more about his behavior and history before we could come to the conclusion that he's sane or a psychopath. Of course with schizophrenia and mania it's pretty common for those to have their first onset when the person is in their early 20s, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Talking about the gestures he does with his hands like the interesting limp hand in the coffee video, standing there looking kind of dazed and helpless, not to mention the tapping or rapping on the door (could have been a staging kind of thing, pretending to be locked out, but then why not close the door first before doing it at least....and the tapping could have been something else, it looked weird and confused.).... in the Thailand video I thought I saw him do a strange involuntary-looking little hand flutter gesture at one point. I'm not sure, I would have to watch that again to have a closer look. I also noticed in videos when he talks he gestures mostly with his left hand, lots of movement and expression with his left hand while talking, you would think he's left-handed, but he appears to write with his right hand. Not important, just unusual little things, it's weird what catches your eye when you watch the videos. The hand flutter from the Thailand video, and the tapping on the door in this video made me wonder.

Speak of body language, I noticed that Stephany seemed to be almost stumbling slightly when she approached the table in the casino where he was sitting. I wondered what was making her kind of drag and almost stagger a bit like that, at first I thought, omg she was drugged or impaired somehow, but I guess she might have just been exhausted from being up all night

I think her walk has a lot to do with poor posture and weak core strength made worse by the fact that it was late and she was probably tired or coming off of a buzz.

Those are great observations! I enjoy noticing nuances.
 
I'm with you both on that. I don't think justice involves rape and torture. It's uncivilized.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind... Gandhi.


Then there's always the biblical reference:

"And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."

Just sayin'...
 
I am trying to play catch up here and it's not going very well, lol...would anyone be willing to tell me if there was video of Joran being convicted of murder? Thank you so much!
 
I'm with you both on that. I don't think justice involves rape and torture. It's uncivilized.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind... Gandhi.

well, its a discussion point. how we feel about punishment, justice, retribution, and so on.

but thats all it is.

he has made his own bed, and he is gonna lie in it. whatever it is. one irony certainly is, as someone has pointed out, when his father and whoever else helped him escape justice for Natalie's disappearance, they allowed this descent into hell to happen.

what were they thinking?
 
Then there's always the biblical reference:

"And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."

Just sayin'...

But that's the bible.

Juuuuuust kidding, I respect religious beliefs.
 
I think her walk has a lot to do with poor posture, no core strength made worse by the fact that it was late and she was probably tired or coming off of a buzz.

Those are great observations! I enjoy noticing nuances.

In the video in the casino when she walks up to Joran, she is walking with a limp. I think it is pretty obvious at least to me it was. jmo
 
Speak of body language, I noticed that Stephany seemed to be almost stumbling slightly when she approached the table in the casino where he was sitting. I wondered what was making her kind of drag and almost stagger a bit like that, at first I thought, omg she was drugged or impaired somehow, but I guess she might have just been exhausted from being up all night[/quote]

I noticed the exact same thing. It's almost like she is reluctant to be there. You phrased this (captured this) perfectly. But see the same
thing when she is following behind him head down as he picks up the keys with a smirk; like she owed him or was in debt to him for something and
maybe that is exactly what was going on. Maybe I'm projecting but she
doesnt look exactly enthusiastic about being in his presence or with him
on any ocassion?

I am sure this will come out at trial if there is one.

I think the Peruvians are doing a splendid job so far.
 
In the video in the casino when she walks up to Joran, she is walking with a limp. I think it is pretty obvious at least to me it was. jmo

To me, she waddles. Both of her feet flop outward when she walks... maybe that's part of her limp? Possibly bowlegged?
 
Can anyone here make out the items on Joran's Circa hoodie? I know the brand is a popular skate company based here in So Cal but I can't figure out what's on it... a toaster? Sex positions? A cell phone from the 80's?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/06/04/article-1283862-09E0B799000005DC-846_634x403.jpg

I know the top/chest part is beepers/pagers. It looks like an ad from the back page of the Sunday paper from the early 90's.

Not that it really matters. :blushing:
 
I am trying to play catch up here and it's not going very well, lol...would anyone be willing to tell me if there was video of Joran being convicted of murder? Thank you so much!

Funny & appropriate. Not yet! Wait three days?
 
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