Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #13

[georger]

Well, he certainly is a troubled soul. IMO the blame has to fall on his parents either because his upbringing gave him this sense of entitlement with no restraint or because they ignored signs of psychological issues and didn't get him the proper treatment early on. Now, not only is his life ruined, but the lives of two innocent women have been lost.

We have the 'rumor' he was given psychological evaluation in Aruba
as a teen? I wonder if that has been explored further by anyone here
today?

He could be just a very deluded personality (in a world FULL of negative opportunities) who just never got grounded in any realistic life pattern.
His family uppermiddle class striving people, father the Judge ... he takes on the role of a rebel while also insisting he is Normal! This kid is not normal. That much we can all agree on.

I live in a university community. Every year we have thousands of young
people coming here and some get lost immediately, never do acclimate,
feel inferior, become angry, and get into big trouble (murder somebody).
Joran seems to me to fit that simple scenario. Everything else is just
media hyperbolae.

 

[rotterdam]

I think I know how Joran got Stephanie into his motel room. He most likely borrowed chips or money from her at the casino, and told her he had the money to pay her back in his motel room. She thought she was going there to collect what he owed her. This makes perfect sense to me, and as usual, MOO.

To respond to the post and quote above mine, I do believe Joran planned this. After all, he had tidal charts for Lima in his possession. That would indicate premeditation. Stephanie was totally set up in advance. Joran knew he needed money, and may have been biding his time until a day when she won the most he'd seen her win.

Going back to his hotel to play "on line poker" sounds logical too. They were both addicts to gambling and the tables closed at 5.00 am in the casino (as I recall). Maybe he wanted her to use her credit card to put some money in his "on line account" and she refused. Bottom line still robbery and murder. Premeditated!!!!

 

[panthera]

Now that sorta makes sense...

What I found intresting is that the headline is in Dutch media, and if it is true, it corroborates what the Peruvian authorities have charged him with. So, it doesn't sound like the Dutch are defending him. MOO

 

[panthera]

Going back to his hotel to play "on line poker" sounds logical too. They were both addicts to gambling and the tables closed at 5.00 am in the casino (as I recall). Maybe he wanted her to use her credit card to put some money in his "on line account" and she refused. Bottom line still robbery and murder. Premeditated!!!!

I think that's more in line with what happened instead of her loaning him any money in the casino. In every lie there seems to be some sort of truth so them gambling online could've morphed into him saying she found something on his computer, etc. MOO

 

[Cher352]

It's pretty standard in some countries - like Peru, to show it all in the media. It is not happening just because it is Joran. That is just the way it is done in some countries. It is also common for the media to show dead bodies at the scene- whether murdered or from a vehicle accident - in newspapers and on TV.

Perhaps they show it as a deterrent to committing a crime. If I was ever going to commit one it sure wouldn't be in Peru.

Can you imagine what one of those prisoners would think of the prisons here in the US? They would think they were at the Ritz!

 

[Kenon]

I think I know how Joran got Stephanie into his motel room. He most likely borrowed chips or money from her at the casino, and told her he had the money to pay her back in his motel room. She thought she was going there to collect what he owed her. This makes perfect sense to me, and as usual, MOO.

To respond to the post and quote above mine, I do believe Joran planned this. After all, he had tidal charts for Lima in his possession. That would indicate premeditation. Stephanie was totally set up in advance. Joran knew he needed money, and may have been biding his time until a day when she won the most he'd seen her win.

Respectfully, I don't believe that he planned it. I think he rages when he doesn't get his way. I am thinkin he didn't get the tidal reports until after he killed her. JMO

 

[Dutchie Treat]

Dutch Treat, I have always wondered and you seem to be a great one to ask, when this whole NH thing went down and the Holloways did not feel that the Aruban LE was doing there job, could they have went somewhere in the Dutch Goverment to try and get help with this case? I have always wondered that but had no idea who to ask....

No. That was one of the problems. Aruba has its own DA and Attorney General. They have been given the "status aparte" (separatists) since 1986 from the Netherlands. That means that although there is a democratic monarchy and the queen appoints the governor to Aruba, they are independent from the Netherlands in several aspects including their Parliament and their judicial system. It is largely patterned after the Netherlands but may have some significant local differences.

The Netherlands couldn't help with the actual prosecution of Joran. They could help with forensics IF ASKED. But that would be up to the Aruban authorities. That was one of the really frustrating things for the investigative reporter De Vries. He felt that he had the murderer but his hands were tied. He tried to get the attention of the Aruban authorities but they ultimately had the choice to arrest him again or not. He couldn't be arrested on Dutch soil without having an arrest warrant from Aruba.

Hope it helped. )

 

[georger]

I think, it is a worthless chip in Peru. However, by playing this chip, he has basically admitted/confessed that he is involved in Natalee's death. Anybody who still had doubts, should realize that. That includes Aruba.

I disagree. He isnt admiting anything. He knows the Holloway's want
resolution. He says (and a large part of the world says) he holds the
chip to resolving Natalie's fate. There is nothing more than his word
he holds the chip! He could actually know nothing. He may know something in reality, but there is nothing that is certified he actually
has the answers everyone says he has ..... until he or someone else demonstrates he has the answers.

The Kalpoe bros may know something?

Joran is playing a dangerous game. His game has brought him to his
current fate .... and he still is holding out or he would already have
confessed and never went to Peru in the first place and would not be sitting in a Peruvian prison waiting for a miracle you can life off one more day. Joran is an opportunist. He has
never said he killed Natalie, but that she convulsed and he got rid of her to spare himself
further involvement. That is not the act of a serial murderer if this outline is true.

 

[Paintr]

excellent. The corroded black encrusted sink caught my eye. I wonder
if the water works?

Here is another link which impresses me for its straightforward reporting
about Joran and his life, which may cut through a lot of speculation.
See:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wirestory?id=10903660&page=1
If the report above is correct, Joran is not some cunning genius who plots out every move but a genuinely lost soul who has fumbled through life with an underlying cognitive disability which can lead to him having a hair-trigger followed by large rage (and people get hurt).
The above article (as I read it) defuses a lot of the media hype surrounding Joran and puts everything on a more realistic plane. Its not a large jump from the reality in your link above to the description in my link, a contrast I find most interesting ...

I would have a lot more sympathy for Joran's downward spiral, if he had not killed two beautiful young women on the way down. MOO!

 

[georger]

I think money(lots of it) will trump prestige. You can not buy anything with prestige in Castro Castro.

The people in that prison would see Joran as a schmuck - a simple
self deluded moron. There are real professional crimninals and political prisoners int his prison. Joran is not in the company of morons on
Spring Break in Ft Lauderdale!

 

[Kenon]

I think it's referred to a "blankee" in there.raying:

I am laughing cuz when Panthera said "blanket" the first thing I thought sarcastically too was "his blankie". Great minds think alike! ha ha

 

[Dutchie Treat]

Perhaps they show it as a deterrent to committing a crime. If I was ever going to commit one it sure wouldn't be in Peru.

Can you imagine what one of those prisoners would think of the prisons here in the US? They would think they were at the Ritz!

The only thing that the Dutch media and government had a problem with, was the perp walk.

Parading Joran around like that for the media and for maddened throngs is like a flash back to the second world war for the Netherlands when that type of behavior was exhibited in concentration camps before some groups were brought to firing squads or worse.

The rest of everything that is Joran van der Sloot sickens us collectively as a people. Truly. We are afraid of him when we see his eyes in pictures or on TV.

 

[rotterdam]

Just my opnion but I think its the Colonial attitude - they see themselves
as different-superior to everyone else and Joran is just one of their own.
Recall how they ruled So. Africa for so many years.

I can assure that is not the case in The Netherlands where I spent my first 23 years. However, that attitude could possibly still exist in Aruba, Bonaire and other Dutch Antilles islands in the Caribbean.

 

[georger]

Ya know when I first saw him 5 years ago. I really didn't keep up with the story, as he made me sick. I felt he was such an arrogant pig. I used to think he will get his or do something again. Well that happened. Now when I watched him walk into the cell and the conditions my stomach sunk. I can't believe I am going to say this. I kind of felt sorry, but then I also started thinking about Natalie and Stephany and they had no chance. Now this guy has no chance and he deserves it. I think it would be a good thing if someone killed him or he should try to figure out a way to do it, cuz there is no way in hell a human being could live that way. That is just insane. One more thing. How did that other criminal I think Trujillo have his face in the camera when Joran was being put in his cell?

How would you describe Joran's pscyhology? You met him.

Is he a deep person, intellectually?

What is his major asset as a human being? His physical size? His
atheletic ability? His mental superiority?

Studies show it only takes about 30 seconds to size people up ..

 

[Carolina Girl]

View attachment 9606


Joran's hand

Definitely damaged IMO

 

[rotterdam]

Ya know when I first saw him 5 years ago. I really didn't keep up with the story, as he made me sick. I felt he was such an arrogant pig. I used to think he will get his or do something again. Well that happened. Now when I watched him walk into the cell and the conditions my stomach sunk. I can't believe I am going to say this. I kind of felt sorry, but then I also started thinking about Natalie and Stephany and they had no chance. Now this guy has no chance and he deserves it. I think it would be a good thing if someone killed him or he should try to figure out a way to do it, cuz there is no way in hell a human being could live that way. That is just insane. One more thing. How did that other criminal I think Trujillo have his face in the camera when Joran was being put in his cell?

I think that was a much earlier video from when Trujillo got taken to Castro Castro.

 

[Dutchie Treat]

I can assure that is not the case in The Netherlands where I spent my first 23 years. However, that attitude could possibly still exist in Aruba, Bonaire and other Dutch Antilles islands in the Caribbean.

Hi Rotterdam! You spent your first 23 years in the Netherlands I spent my second 23 here! haha! I emigrated when I was 23...I am now 46. That's kind of funny )

And, I agree with you. The Dutch are more modest than anything else. We all know about "sticking our head up out of the mowing field" and having it cut off... (smile at the translation into English hahaha) but everyone will understand it. You can't even really be proud of your accomplishments (behind close doors it's okay) or say that you're good at something or have a talent. It's just not done here.

 

[suzihawk]

Respectfully, I don't believe that he planned it. I think he rages when he doesn't get his way. I am thinkin he didn't get the tidal reports until after he killed her. JMO

I don't think it planned it, either. But these tidal reports puzzle me. The authorities haven't examined his computer yet, as I understand it. So the tidal reports must have been in hard copy unless he was hauling around a printer, which I doubt. We all pretty much agree he didn't leave his room except for his brief 'coffee video' debut. So... where did these come from and when did he obtain them?

 

[MD MOMMY]

I speak spanish ie: border spanish (Texas) and when I say "esta mal de la cabeza" I am saying he is not right in the head or the dude is psycho. When I say "tengo un dolor de cabeza" I am saying I have a headache.

My best friend said basically the same...screwball slang, not right in the head mentally.

 

[Dutchie Treat]

Definitely damaged IMO

WOW good picture! I wonder if his hand is so swollen because he hit her so hard. It looks like it's really swollen and that there is some dried blood on his arm.

either that or the Peruvian LE was a little bit rough on him.

Hmmmm...