Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #14

[RoughlyCollie]

He hates Beth, she never cut him any slack for Natalie as everyone else in his life had done - it is ironic that he is using Natalie as a life line.

More than ironic. It is cruel. Just another twist of the knife by Joran.

 

[hollyblue]

This article is from yesterday and more or less describes what is expected to happen when Joran goes before the judge on Friday.

In this article, they speculated that the defense lawyer would be César Nakazaki. We're still not certain if that's the case due to conflicting reports re: his current lawyer not resigning as originally stated. Dutch news today says he's not; Peru news says he is.

But, the most interesting part is in the Comments section with all the bad remarks re: Nakazaki....summarized by one: "César Nakazaki is the attorney for the corrupt and [worst] criminals and the worst part is that [he] always loses. You have to be stupid to hire him."


http://peru21.pe/noticia/495292/joran-van-der-sloot-declararia-viernes

MOO

He was the attorney for Fujimori--the X President who got 6 years for corruption, IIRC.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I've been wondering how the loss of 1 salary could completely & immediately devistate a family's income. Sure it would be tough but surely there would have been investments or savings accounts. I'm thinking that Paulus probably had some kind of illegal & criminal source for income that let them lead the good life. Now he's gone & so is the good life.

There are people who lost significant amounts of money during the current economic downturn. Maybe Paulus was a spender, not a saver, or maybe he didn't have life insurance, or maybe he didn't have money because he spent it all on Joran's defense, or maybe he spent it all supporting his family in a very expensive place to live.

Or maybe appearances are deceiving and they lived high on the hog and acquired high debt to do so.

There are plenty of reasons this could have happened besides Paulus having earned his money from participating in a criminal enterprise.

 

[nums24]

Yours is an important question: Im going to try and shed light on this - its complicated but sometimes difficult to apply.

See: http://www.apsu.edu/oconnort/3210/3210lect06.htm

"Bloodstain patterns tell a lot about position and movement during the crime, who struck whom first, in what manner, and how many times. This destroys most alibi and self-defense arguments for crime, and at the very least, trips most suspects up in their explanation of what happened. Over the years, criminals have tried many ingenious ways to hide, clean up, and remove blood evidence, but it's an area where criminal justice technology has always stayed one step ahead of them."

In addition, Contact dna patterns can be helpful.

See: http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/forensics.shtml
and
http://www.dna.gov/basics/

Also finger print patterns on objects. Finger print (HCl salts) can yield dna/mtdna as
well as raw prints ....

Any time you contact something you potentially leave dna, especially
through sweat and body fluids. If you strike something with force you always contact dna.
...............

There is nothing in Joran's account which says that Steph used
deadly force on him at any time, but only struck him on his temple
one time (so they will examine his temple area ... they already did
a body exanmination on him).

On the other hand we have wounds on Stephany which Joran's
account does not explain. Forensics will seek to establish how those
wounds occurred.

The FBI might be helpful in this -

I wonder how much real forensics was run early in the Holloway case - I doubt
there was much if anything, but I dont know. Ive never heard of anything...

The thank you button was not enough! This has explained so much for me :woohoo:

 

[Nikolai]

I dont know if anybody saw this, its an interesting video of watching Van Der Sloot being booked and moved to his cell within the Castro Prison, looks brutal. It's from spanish news media, I guess they were allowed to cover the booking process, Van Der Sloot says some things to the camera as well, I believe answering questions. It almost makes me feel sorry for him seeing a 22 year old moved into his new horrible life. He wasted his life and even worse devastated the lives of three families including his own. He doesnt deserve any mercy.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2AC9ybfABU[/ame]

I think VDS should have kept his mouth shut, no confession and no answering questions without his lawyer. I dont see how he get any breaks from Peru now, Im just curious how long his sentence will be.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

But, the most interesting part is in the Comments section with all the bad remarks re: Nakazaki....summarized by one: "César Nakazaki is the attorney for the corrupt and [worst] criminals and the worst part is that [he] always loses. You have to be stupid to hire him."

http://peru21.pe/noticia/495292/joran-van-der-sloot-declararia-viernes

MOO

The "corrupt and [worst] criminals" don't win their cases by having a smart lawyer, although this is an opinion about lawyers that these criminals frequently have in common.

The problem isn't their lawyers, it is that the criminals do not take personal responsibility for their actions and always blame someone else and expect their lawyers to be able to magically erase all penalties.

Oddly, they expect this even if the evidence clearly shows them to be guilty -- even if the commission of the crime was recorded on video and/or audio by LE.

 

[GraceBlue]

Joran's name fits him perfectly!

Apparently, his last name Van der Sloot means "from the" and "waste ditch"
So Joran from the waste ditch :floorlaugh:

source: post #29 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2527902/posts?page=17

 

[newone]

There was so much wrath in that crowd it must have seemed terrifying to experience that level of emotion directed at him for a change. (MOO)

 

[Nikolai]

There are people who lost significant amounts of money during the current economic downturn. Maybe Paulus was a spender, not a saver, or maybe he didn't have life insurance, or maybe he didn't have money because he spent it all on Joran's defense, or maybe he spent it all supporting his family in a very expensive place to live.

Or maybe appearances are deceiving and they lived high on the hog and acquired high debt to do so.

There are plenty of reasons this could have happened besides Paulus having earned his money from participating in a criminal enterprise.

When I read the entire confession translated to English it gave a sense of a guy who was in desperation. Even leading up to the murder this sounds like a man on a downward spiral, he seemed like a guy with no family or friends going down the path of self destruction. I couldnt even imagine living the life he was at 22 years old, gambling all my money away, possibly addicted to alcohol and drugs, trying to extort money in any way possible from people so I could waste it on nothing. He claims he came into Peru with $25,000, which Im guessing was from the extortion, so he likely was broke and was desperate for money to gamble. VDS is probably addicted to gambling, and if he's an alcoholic and constant drug user that is going to make his prison stay even more difficult. I cant even imagine my mother allowing that to happen to me, which makes you wonder where his family was. He seemed like a person who's life was getting more and more desperate by the day.

After the murder he was offering payment to people with money he didnt have to get him out of Peru. He gave someone his $7000 watch after he could only get $500 out of the ATM. He meets some random person during his flee after the murder and they get drunk together and he passes out at the guys house before returning on his flight the next morning.

This guys life sounds like a mess, it was only a matter of time until he was either dead or locked up for a long time, its a shame he killed someone before it all ended. I dont know where it all went wrong for this guy, but he killed Natalee Holloway when he was a care free 17 year old kid, this guy is a sociopath.

 

[Beatrice]

Not an excuse...but maybe an explanation.

Seems to me, Joran inherited his father's very large skull/frontal lobes. You can see some evidence in Joran with the ridges/bumps over his eyebrows. And the fact Joran reacted quite violently to the email message describing him as 'mongolian'

Persons with large skulls/frontal lobes maintain their I.Q. but exhibit poor impulse control, poor decision making, odd sexual interests, etc.


THE FRONTAL LOBE PERSONALITY

With unilateral, bilateral, or even seemingly mild frontal lobe dysfunction patients may initially display an array of waxing and waning abnormalities including the "frontal lobe personality," i.e. tangentiality, childishness, impulsiveness, jocularity, grandiosity, irritability, increased sexuality, and manic excitement Over fifty years of research and numerous case studies have consistently indicated that with significant frontal lobe pathology attentional functioning may become grossly comprised, behavior may become fragmented, and initiative, goal seeking, concern for consequences, planning skills, fantasy and imagination, and the general attitude toward the future may be lost.

 

[newone]

When I read the entire confession translated to English it gave a sense of a guy who was in desperation. Even leading up to the murder this sounds like a man on a downward spiral, he seemed like a guy with no family or friends going down the path of self destruction. I couldnt even imagine living the life he was at 22 years old, gambling all my money away, possibly addicted to alcohol and drugs, trying to extort money in any way possible from people so I could waste it on nothing. He claims he came into Peru with $25,000, which Im guessing was from the extortion, so he likely just needed money to gamble. VDS is probably addicted to gambling, and if he's an alcoholic and constant drug user that is going to make his prison stay even more difficult. I cant even imagine my mother allowing that to happen to me, which makes you wonder where his family was. He seemed like a person who's life was getting more and more desperate by the day.

After the murder he was offering payment to people with money he didnt have to get him out of Peru. He gave someone his $7000 watch after he could only get $500 out of the ATM. He meets some random person during his flee after the murder and they get drunk together and he passes out at the guys house before returning on his flight the next morning.

This guys life sounds like a mess, it was only a matter of time until he was either dead or locked up for a long time, its a shame he killed someone before it all ended. I dont know where it all went wrong for this guy, but he killed Natalee Holloway when he was a care free 17 year old kid, this guy is a sociopath.

I agree -- his trolley left the tracks sometime ago and he's a wreck, however, that does not absolve him from his heinous actions. He's 22 yrs old and there are few things a parent can do (other than cut off money and support) when a person is on a self destruct at that age. As a parent you can express concern and beg your kid to get help but you cannot force them - it won't work.

 

[Kateyes]

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/joran’s-lawyer-decides-stay

Joran van der Sloot’s lawyer, Máximo Altez, has decided he will continue to defend his client. Earlier he announced he was quitting because of “numerous family problems”, but Radio Netherlands Worldwide has learned that he has now decided to go ahead regardless. He has, however, moved to a secret location since the windows of his office were smashed.

A prominent Peruvian lawyer has informed RNW that Joran’s mother wants the trial moved to the Netherlands. He says this is theoretically possible in legal terms, but only if the Peruvian authorities agree and that seems unlikely.

Just when I thought that AVDS finally realized the reality of her son's psychopathy, she once again is trying to "help" him by asking his lawyer to try to have the trial moved to the Netherlands. I wonder if the Netherlands, as liberal as it is, would agree to having a murder trial of a foreign suspect, accused of killing one of their citizens, moved to the country of the suspect??
Maybe it is not so hard to see where JVDS learned his behaviors. JMHO

 

[Cottages]

The amygdala more or less being the primal function of fight or flight with the negation of thought/rationalization per se of the other. (Sorry, I read this over 15 years ago and am not in the med profession, so I can't remember if it was the hippo or hypo that supposedly makes for the rationalization.)... Now I'm going to go nuts trying to remember and will surly find myself going through my library today till I find it!!! Not good.

I'm not sure I have heard this before, and I would be VERY interested to know more about it. I know limbic structures are damaged, or rather *get damaged* (i.e. in abused/traumatized/neglected people, who qualify for mental illnesses). A look-see via MRI often shows various shrunken and/or asymmetric structures. If a child lives in an emotional earthquake zone (unpredictable raging parent, e.g.), many researchers believe that the frequent, prolonged rise in cortisol literally fries the normal circuitry of the hippo. When this happens, cortisol gets "stuck" in the on or off position for life. If stuck in the on position, these people are hypersensative to stress, which often results in issues such as depression, bulimia, emotion dysregulation, impulsivity (addictions/offenses). If stuck in the off position, these people have no fear (no startle response, i.e. psychopath).

So, surely I'm thinking it was the hippo. And, also, the hypothalamus, while part of the limbic system, is our brains' "Dorm mother," constantly monitor all systems to make sure they're in balance (temperature, BP, etc). The hippo is important for memory-making. It and the amygdala "check" with each other to "know" what we should do about a stimuli being presented (e.g. when we come upon a rattlesnake or a puppy).

In the video recently posted on a couple of killers, it should be noted that Mitten was a child of divorce, Krueger a foster child. These circumstances are "trauma" to a child, and early childhood traumas are more typical than atypical in the mentally ill/addicts/offenders. In fact, the more traumas in childhood, the more likely you are to have severe issues. For example, if a child grows up in a situation with a single mom who was an alcoholic and the child regularly received physical and emotional abuse coupled with neglect, that child has a 4,600% higher risk of becoming an I.V. drug user than someone raised in an intact family who was loved-up (see the ACE study).

Of course, without looking into Mitten, it appeared from the video that he developed schizophrenia. Many who develop schizophrenia do so around the time of the second brain pruning (very late adolescence), so there is some evidence that this process going awry results in "sudden" schizophrenia.

Thank you for your post!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Joran's name fits him perfectly!

Apparently, his last name Van der Sloot means "from the" and "waste ditch"
So Joran from the waste ditch :floorlaugh:

source: post #29 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2527902/posts?page=17

Ya ,made my day! :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[CrymeARiver]

I dont know if anybody saw this, its an interesting video of watching Van Der Sloot being booked and moved to his cell within the Castro Prison, looks brutal. It's from spanish news media, I guess they were allowed to cover the booking process, Van Der Sloot says some things to the camera as well, I believe answering questions. It almost makes me feel sorry for him seeing a 22 year old moved into his new horrible life. He wasted his life and even worse devastated the lives of three families including his own. He doesnt deserve any mercy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2AC9ybfABU

I think VDS should have kept his mouth shut, no confession and no answering questions without his lawyer. I dont see how he get any breaks from Peru now, Im just curious how long his sentence will be.

JVS is now just a number, forever #326390

 

[i.b.nora]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/16/van-der-sloot-update-august-questioning/

11:15 AM ET

Van der Sloot update: Arubans to question him in August

CNN has just learned that Aruban investigators will likely not travel to Peru to question murder suspect Joran van der Sloot until at least the end of August, prosecutor Peter Blanken said.

Investigators from Aruba will not be able to question van der Sloot until Peruvian authorities finish their probe of the May 30 slaying of Stephany Flores, Blanken said. The formalities of Peruvian law also will determine the time frame, the prosecutor said.

more . . .

 

[Linda7NJ]

Not an excuse...but maybe an explanation.

Seems to me, Joran inherited his father's very large skull/frontal lobes. You can see some evidence in Joran with the ridges/bumps over his eyebrows. And the fact Joran reacted quite violently to the email message describing him as 'mongolian'

Persons with large skulls/frontal lobes maintain their I.Q. but exhibit poor impulse control, poor decision making, odd sexual interests, etc.


THE FRONTAL LOBE PERSONALITY

With unilateral, bilateral, or even seemingly mild frontal lobe dysfunction patients may initially display an array of waxing and waning abnormalities including the "frontal lobe personality," i.e. tangentiality, childishness, impulsiveness, jocularity, grandiosity, irritability, increased sexuality, and manic excitement Over fifty years of research and numerous case studies have consistently indicated that with significant frontal lobe pathology attentional functioning may become grossly comprised, behavior may become fragmented, and initiative, goal seeking, concern for consequences, planning skills, fantasy and imagination, and the general attitude toward the future may be lost.

Frontal lobe involvement is brain damge...ya need a MRI, EEG and a CAT scan to see it. Looking at FATTY deposits near his eyebrows....means nothing, except he tends to store some extra fat, when he has it, there. He isn't sporting those puffy ridges now.


I believe frontal lobe damage can cause all sorts of serious issues (like psychopathy ) that I don't want to get into right now...

 

[Cottages]

...it is ironic that he is using Natalie as a life line.

Thanks for pointing out this irony. Excellent insight! He did not save her (at least, if not killed her), and now he is hoping she will save him.

 

[faw720]

There are people who lost significant amounts of money during the current economic downturn. Maybe Paulus was a spender, not a saver, or maybe he didn't have life insurance, or maybe he didn't have money because he spent it all on Joran's defense, or maybe he spent it all supporting his family in a very expensive place to live.

Or maybe appearances are deceiving and they lived high on the hog and acquired high debt to do so.

There are plenty of reasons this could have happened besides Paulus having earned his money from participating in a criminal enterprise.

I see your point, but my mind keeps going back to Paulus saying "No body, no crime". IMO that statement emphasises the fact that he had absolutely no morals. I definitly understand parental love, but my dad surely wouldn't have said that if I had been in Joran's shoes. Not only that, but I don't think any decent person would have made that statement. I'd be willing to bet that at least 95%, if not more, of the posters here would say that their parents wouldn't have had that attitude or made that statement either.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Just when I thought that AVDS finally realized the reality of her son's psychopathy, she once again is trying to "help" him by asking his lawyer to try to have the trial moved to the Netherlands. I wonder if the Netherlands, as liberal as it is, would agree to having a murder trial of a foreign suspect, accused of killing one of their citizens, moved to the country of the suspect??
Maybe it is not so hard to see where JVDS learned his behaviors. JMHO

IMO I don't see anything wrong with a mother wanting her son imprisoned closer to her. She is his mother.

It is hard for me to SEE where he learned these behaviors. Certainly not by looking at his mother's behavior right now. To me, it would say far more if she simply wrote him off, disowned him and couldn't care less if he's imprisoned in Peru!