Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #14

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I thought JVDS had no connection with the missing women from Colombia? According to this article it states the following:

"As it turns out, these women mysteriously disappeared while Joran van der Sloot was in Bogata for a poker tournament the week before he arrived in Peru. What’s more disturbing? The same women were, indeed seen with van der Sloot the day before they both vanished."

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/van-der-Sloot-responsible-for-other-disappearances/UX8ZLexHKkKo2h17AqceXA.cspx

Anyone else see this or already discuss this tonight?

Blessings :heart:
 
Joran has also made a lot of money. .

any of it left? Ludvig didnt send him a shilling. This talk of money
I find funny. Joran and his whole clan and all of Aruba could not raise
enough to get him out of this and ... for every penny they could raise
1000 times that could be raised against them and for the Peruvians, push come to shove.
These 'sporters' have been outbid. Joran bankrupted them and it suits them.
 
I most definitely remember the reference to her "delicious sporter". Made me cringe then and still does today.

I never followed the NH case and know little about Anite VDS, so I just googled in search of a video of her.

The one I found from June, 2005 is really quite shocking. She describes Joran as an "honest boy, very sincere....not at all arrogant". I'm sure a mother always wants to think the best of her child, but she has to have known, even back then, that he had a history of lying along with a sense of entitlement. So, was she being delusional or just protective?

Whatever it was then, I'm sure she will no longer make those kind of statements now!!

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/aruba-interview/65prtnd

MOO
 
Hi everyone,

This is my first post. Love the site very much and have learned a great deal.

Regarding Anita's reluctance to go to Peru -- I have a hard time believing she doesn't have money for plane fare. It's not that much money, and it's a critical time for her son.

I think she doesn't want to go - because she's tired of fixing Joran's problems, because there's not much she can do, because it's too embarrassing to be on display after all the evidence released to the public, because helping him is going to be very expensive. All good reasons -- but, still -- he's a monster, but he's her little monster.

Either they had a massive falling out, or she's a distant, disengaged mother. More and more, I think the latter -- it would explain the acting out as a youngster, the lack of impulse control, the sociapathy.

Would love to hear others' opinions.

sign_welcomebounce.gif


I actually think she is torn. Her motherly instincts probably tell her she needs to be at her sons side but her distgust and humiliation at always having to dig his arse out of trouble is just too much to bear! I've seen her on interviews since the NH disappearance and she has always looked like an abused, long suffering woman. She might have been dealing with this even before Joran..Maybe from her husband..JMHO
 
any of it left? Ludvig didnt send him a shilling. This talk of money
I find funny. Joran and his whole clan and all of Aruba could not raise
enough to get him out of this and ... for every penny they could raise
$1mil could be raised against them and for the Peruvians, push come to shove.
These 'sporters' have been outbid. Joran bankrupted them and it suits them.

lol. I didn't say he had any left. He's a gambler. In more ways than one.
I'm sure Anita has learned a trick or two from her son. Media will be paying her way as well.
 
I thought JVDS had no connection with the missing women from Colombia? According to this article it states the following:

"As it turns out, these women mysteriously disappeared while Joran van der Sloot was in Bogata for a poker tournament the week before he arrived in Peru. What’s more disturbing? The same women were, indeed seen with van der Sloot the day before they both vanished."

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/van-der-Sloot-responsible-for-other-disappearances/UX8ZLexHKkKo2h17AqceXA.cspx

Anyone else see this or already discuss this tonight?

Blessings :heart:

Blessings to you too shorty! I was just watching Greta and she was talking to a reporter from Peru. He made it sound like Joran got the 1st installment from BH for the extortion and went straight to Peru arriving around May 13th, I think he said. THEN, he went to Columbia and went back to Peru for the Poker tournament were he met Stephany around the 27th of May!
 
She will be ok. She's a "sporter"!

A little off topic, but I love your sense of humor jwarner. I also thoroughly enjoy your posts, which are well thought out. Your post on the blood splatter was excellent. Thanks. And the above comment had me ROFLMAO!!!
 
A little off topic, but I love your sense of humor jwarner. I also thoroughly enjoy your posts, which are well thought out. Your post on the blood splatter was excellent. Thanks. And the above comment had me ROFLMAO!!!

I know!! I was cracking up and I don't even know what a sporter is!!
 
lol. I didn't say he had any left. He's a gambler. In more ways than one.
I'm sure Anita has learned a trick or two from her son. Media will be paying her way as well.

So far that has not proven to be true. I have yet to see an interview with AVDS since this story broke. One report, early on, quoted her as saying "What is it now?" Other than that I have not seen pictures of her, or heard anything more from her. I would like to think the media has left her alone due to her plight as a mother. But, knowing the media frenzy on this case I believe the media would love to interview her if only they could contact her and get her approval. IMHO she is making herself scarce purposely. I agree with a previous poster who thinks she is conflicted. JMHO
 
So far that has not proven to be true. I have yet to see an interview with AVDS since this story broke. One report, early on, quoted her as saying "What is it now?" Other than that I have not seen pictures of her, or heard anything more from her. I would like to think the media has left her alone due to her plight as a mother. But, knowing the media frenzy on this case I believe the media would love to interview her if only they could contact her and get her approval. IMHO she is making herself scarce purposely. I agree with a previous poster who thinks she is conflicted. JMHO

If she has any grasp on reality (left) she has to know the end has
arrived (for Joran). She must feel devastated. She may now be thinking
she must turn to the welfare of the other children and salvage what
can be salvaged there. There is nothing and no money can extricate
Joran at this point. She can only ask for mercy, for herself and Stephany's family!

She could demonstrate her contrition by telling the FBI everything she knows
about Natalie's case!
 
Also Maximo Altez apparently had his office windows smashed and AVDS wants the trial in The Netherlands.

snipped

Máximo Altez lawyer made the defense of Joran van der Sloot was not down. Maandag meldden Peruaanse media dat hij ermee zou stoppen omdat zijn gezin er onder te lijden zou hebben. Peruvian media reported Monday that he would quit because his family has to suffer under. De Wereldomroep meldt nu op basis van een betrouwbare bron dat de raadsman toch doorgaat met de zaak. Worldwide log on with a reliable source that it continues to counsel the matter. Advocaat Altez verkast wel naar een geheime locatie, omdat de ramen van zijn kantoor zouden zijn ingegooid. Lawyer Altez be relocated to an undisclosed location because the windows of his office were smashed. De advocaat liet eerder weten bezwaar te maken tegen de bekentenis die Van der Sloot aflegde over de moord van de 21-jarige Peruaanse Stephany Flores. The lawyer had previously know to object to the admission to be quoted Van der Sloot about the murder of 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores. De verklaring zou onrechtmatig zijn verkregen. The statement was illegally obtained. De moeder van Van der Sloot wil dat de zaak tegen haar zoon in Nederland wordt voortgezet. Van der Sloot's mother wants the case against her son in the Netherlands continues. Dat heeft een prominente Peruaanse advocaat gezegd tegen de Wereldomroep. It has a prominent Peruvian lawyer said at the World Service. Volgens de advocaat die met haar zou hebben gesproken is dat juridisch mogelijk, maar in de praktijk onhaalbaar. According to her lawyer who would have spoken is legally possible but in practice unattainable. De advocaat, die anoniem wil blijven, vreest dat Van der Sloot geen eerlijk proces krijgt. A lawyer who wishes to remain anonymous, fears that Van der Sloot is no fair trial. De massahysterie over de moord zou dat onmogelijk maken. The mass hysteria about the murder would be impossible.
Joran van der Sloot verschijnt aanstaande vrijdag voor de Peruaanse rechter. Joran van der Sloot will appear Friday before the Peruvian courts. Dat schrijft het AD. Writes that the AD. Voormalig anti-corruptiemagistraat Carlos Morales Córdova zal de zaak voorzitten. Former anti-corruption magistrate Carlos Córdova Morales will be the case. Volgens de nieuwssite Peru21.pe zou César Nakazaki de nieuwe advocaat van de Nederlander zijn. According to the news Peru21.pe would Cesar Nakazaki new lawyer be Dutch. Andere bronnen melden echter dat de Amerikaanse raadsman Joseph Tacopina, die Joran bijstond in de Holloway-zaak, naar Peru komt. Other sources report that the U.S. lawyer Joseph Taco Pina, who stood by Joran in the Holloway case, come to Peru. De komende dagen wordt het onderzoek rond de dood van Stephany Flores afgerond. In the coming days, the investigation surrounding the death of Stephany Flores completed. Het Peruaanse OM legt Van der Sloot moord en diefstal ten laste. The Peruvian OM, Van der Sloot murder and robbery charged. De rechter zal zich moeten buigen over de vraag of Joran alleen heeft gehandeld of, zoals Van der Sloot eerder aangaf, er anderen bij de zaak betrokken zijn. The judge will have to address whether Joran acted alone or, as Van der Sloot earlier, there are others involved in the case.
De advocaat van de familie Flores vindt de aanklacht echter ,,te simplistisch'' en is van mening dat nog niet alle vragen zijn beantwoord. The lawyer of the family Flores is the indictment, however, to be simplistic''and believes that not all questions were answered. Hij wil daarom dat extra bewijs wordt opgenomen in de onderbouwing van de aanklacht. He wants so that additional evidence be included in the support of the indictment. Hij doelt daarmee op de informatie die op Jorans laptop is aangetroffen en de getuigenissen van casinobezoekers die Joran en Stephany samen hebben gezien. He thus refers to the information provided on Joran laptop was found and the testimony of casino visitors that Joran and Stephany have seen together.

http://translate.google.com/transla...refox-a&hs=i9n&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
 
You know, I'm starting to really wonder just what all JVDS may have really left behind over the last 5-10 yrs. I would like to know just exactly how many other girls (locals and tourists) have come up missing or been found murdered in Aruba and/or The Netherlands ..anyplace that JVDS may have been at the time...even before Natalie's disappearance..

Just imagine how easy it would have been for PVDS to steer an investigation away from this if it involved a local..imo anyway.

Not saying that anything else did happen, I'm just having a very bad feeling about more to come. For someone so young especially, he seems awful calm immediately after committing murder for this to be his 1st or 2nd rodeo..

and those eyes, they're just so vacant...<<<shudders>>>..
 
I'm curious what exactly Joran's childhood was like, as if he learned to think it was ok to be a liar, as well as do such as he is accused of doing.

It's very likely that JVS learned that it was okay to be a liar, but not necessarily because he witnessed express (blatant) lies in his home. At birth, our brains are relatively undeveloped save a few reflexive instincts. At birth, neurons number a little over 100 billion, but they are not connected up for the most part ("wired together"). At that time, there are ONLY about 2,500 connections per neuron. From the moment of birth up to three years of age, our brains are on a mad mission to form these neural connections. They are ONLY formed by activity (and NON activity, as in neglect) and interaction. That is to say that the day-to-day environment that they are in "wires up" the brain.

By age 3, there are 15,000 connections per neuron, or about 1,000 trillion total. But this is an over abundance. The brain does this to ensure that it is *first* making all the connections it will need *to survive* in its environment (once we survive, only then will we need higher functions). The area of the brain where these connections are rapidly being formed is the limbic system. Because it's our "survival" center, it is of course the area of the brain responsible for our "fight or flight" response (danger evaluation), our instincts (facial expression interpretation...friend or foe, or sometimes friend, sometimes not), emotional memory, etc.

When the brain feels it has all of the necessary connections (is fully programmed to at least survive), the brain starts pruning the connections. It keeps connections that were used often (for better or worse), and rids itself of the ones that were not used often, so that the ones that were used often can strengthen and "firm up."

At 2 & 3 yrs of age, you don't have a firm grasp on what "lying" or "honesty" really is. What your brain learns, or not, is if it can RELY on other people to provide what it needs to survive. Or, does it have to devise ways to trick others into getting or taking what it needs. The brain learns if this is a world where you could be attacked at random (so that you're brain better on constant alert...not so focused on a task that it can't react...i.e. ADD or ADHD, which is often co-morbid with a couple of personality disorders), and so it goes.

The development of the limbic system is by-and-large completed at this point never to be re-developed. The brain goes on to developing higher functions (language skills, reasoning, etc.). Those "skills" and other functions, like sight, also have these "windows of opportunity" that close if you do not learn them by a certain age.

So for pathological liars then, yes, they "learned" that lying was okay, but, perhaps, again, not because they were expressly lied to in the home, but because that was one of the strategies their brain learned in order to survive in their environment. For example, they could not get comforted (protection) by Mom or Dad when they were simply crying because they skinned fell and bumped their toe, so they said they hit their head too. That got Mom's attention, who only then picked up junior and rubbed his head...

That, of course, is a simplified picture. And the mild example above would be pruned away if Mom was just having a bad hair day & normally responded to Junior in a concerned & caring manner. But at the other end of the spectrum is extreme neglect, like the babies in Romanian & Chinese orphanages that just stopped crying when they were hungry because it got them nothing. If the extreme neglect continues, they'll begin banging their heads for stimulation (these were normal babies at birth and up until orphaned, mind you).

Somewhere in between these examples are children that somewhat regularly or unpredictably neglected and/or emotionally abused. Their brains learn to respond with whatever tricks work to get them by (and high, or at least some feeling...that's the head banging, or later the drugs, or the high that psychopaths get from having dominion over another human being's life).

I've taken to looking at family pictures, if they are available, for clues into childhoods of dysfunctional people. There is a couple of pictures of PVS & JVS together that look odd to me. For example there is one where JVS is a teen & the family is around a dinner table. JVS has one arm around PVS and the other hand touching/underneath his dad's hand and JVS also leaned his head over to touch his dad's head. PVS is not reciprocating in his body language at all. Normally, a teenage boy would not be all over his dad like that, unless he was just goofing. But that's not what was going on in this photo. The picture seems to suggest a relationship that is not healthy (e.g. a JVS enmeshed relationship or a wanna-be relationship, not a healthy love-respect relationship). Another photo on a couch portrays a similar image of JVS feigning/wanting a loving relationship with PVS while PVS is just looking at the camera with his hands in his lap.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/popup?id=1586267

Another oddity is, perhaps, that I've noticed in listening to dsyfunctional people (i.e. criminals or the mentally ill) rather than use the term "I was afraid", they often use the term "I was in fear," as if they were *in a place,* not experiencing an emotion. Some day I'm going to delve into that further as I don't have the time in my life now, but it's quite interesting, especially if there is something to it.
 
Agnostic does not mean atheist. Just no particular religion. Most people do pray though if in dire circumstances even if atheist. Heck , may be it will help. It certainly can not do any harm.

An agnostic believes that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but does not deny the 'possibility' that God exists.

Just as they say there are no atheists in foxholes, I'm willing to bet the same holds true with the agnostic. I bet little Joran has been pleading with the God he's not sure exists to get him the heck out of this mess he, through no fault of his own (massive sarcasm here ;) ) got himself stuck in. Nothing is EVER his fault don't cha know.

cheers:smile:

pattyjo
 
Was it on the Levi page show or scared monkeys where one of the guests said AVDS was heading to Peru with a camera crew? I hope that's not true, I hope were not about to see a new installment of an Anthony-like 'my murderous child is innocent' spectacular! I couldn't cope.
 
Oh no, here's an article supporting that story.. http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/20100614/ts_dailybeast/8513_vanderslootdeadendinaruba
 
Five years ago Joran's family and friends surely thought they were doing him a favor by making Natalee's case "go away". Ultimately, those decisions led him to a much worse place today. Now, he WISHES he was in a prison in Aruba!

Yeah, reminds me of the old saying, "Be careful what you wish for because you may get it". 5 years Joran & friends wished that he wouldn't go to an Aruban prison & sure enough, he didn't. That one wish which was granted left him free to kill again & he landed in one of the worst prisons in the world.
 
It appears that Anita has been struggling to raise enough money to fly to Peru. This would indicate that the late, "influential" Paulus Van der Sloot somehow ran through what should have been a substantial fortune, and evidently left his family unable to even afford the cost of a plane ticket.

Anita is an art teacher, so she obviously doesn't make a large salary. Just wanted to point all this out, to counter the constant mantra in the media about how "Daddy" pulled strings for Joran in Aruba, somehow getting the top officials to "cover up" his son's guilt, because the family was so "influential," rich and powerful.

I've been wondering how the loss of 1 salary could completely & immediately devistate a family's income. Sure it would be tough but surely there would have been investments or savings accounts. I'm thinking that Paulus probably had some kind of illegal & criminal source for income that let them lead the good life. Now he's gone & so is the good life.
 
I've been wondering how the loss of 1 salary could completely & immediately devistate a family's income. Sure it would be tough but surely there would have been investments or savings accounts. I'm thinking that Paulus probably had some kind of illegal & criminal source for income that let them lead the good life. Now he's gone & so is the good life.

Quite possible. (Human trafficking?) He was known to gamble quite a bit as well. Maybe he was better at it than his son.
 
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