Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #14

[brazen]

In another article today, it mentioned that she may have to take a loan for Joran's defense. But someone on here speculated earlier that maybe the TV station is going to pay for the lawyer.

Hi everyone,

This is my first post. Love the site very much and have learned a great deal.

Regarding Anita's reluctance to go to Peru -- I have a hard time believing she doesn't have money for plane fare. It's not that much money, and it's a critical time for her son.

I think she doesn't want to go - because she's tired of fixing Joran's problems, because there's not much she can do, because it's too embarrassing to be on display after all the evidence released to the public, because helping him is going to be very expensive. All good reasons -- but, still -- he's a monster, but he's her little monster.

Either they had a massive falling out, or she's a distant, disengaged mother. More and more, I think the latter -- it would explain the acting out as a youngster, the lack of impulse control, the sociapathy.

Would love to hear others' opinions.

 

[brazen]

What was Steph's religon? Catholic? Will she be declared a Peruvian
hero or martyr to be celebrated?

No - first, she didn't die for her religion and second, she didn't die for her country. From the Peruvian newsites I'm reading, she is being used as an example as to what can happen if a young woman visits a stranger's hotel room. Along the lines of finding Mr. Goodbar.

 

[georger]

How cane they forensically determine that JVDS hit SF first?

Yours is an important question: Im going to try and shed light on this - its complicated but sometimes difficult to apply.

See: http://www.apsu.edu/oconnort/3210/3210lect06.htm

"Bloodstain patterns tell a lot about position and movement during the crime, who struck whom first, in what manner, and how many times. This destroys most alibi and self-defense arguments for crime, and at the very least, trips most suspects up in their explanation of what happened. Over the years, criminals have tried many ingenious ways to hide, clean up, and remove blood evidence, but it's an area where criminal justice technology has always stayed one step ahead of them."

In addition, Contact dna patterns can be helpful.

See: http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/forensics.shtml
and
http://www.dna.gov/basics/

Also finger print patterns on objects. Finger print (HCl salts) can yield dna/mtdna as
well as raw prints ....

Any time you contact something you potentially leave dna, especially
through sweat and body fluids. If you strike something with force you always contact dna.
...............

There is nothing in Joran's account which says that Steph used
deadly force on him at any time, but only struck him on his temple
one time (so they will examine his temple area ... they already did
a body exanmination on him).

On the other hand we have wounds on Stephany which Joran's
account does not explain. Forensics will seek to establish how those
wounds occurred.

The FBI might be helpful in this -

I wonder how much real forensics was run early in the Holloway case - I doubt
there was much if anything, but I dont know. Ive never heard of anything...

 

[Danie]

Hi brazen, just came on board last night. WELCOME!
The mother has to be in fear to face traveling to peru, and
The woman should be brave to come forward with everything she knows.

 

[GetSmart]

Just a little diddie OT as it is but I thought kinda interesting
Camera Makes Trip From Aruba to Key West

http://www.gnn.com/article/camera-makes-trip-from-aruba-to-key-west/1117240
MIAMI (June 14) -- Paul Shultz was walking along the pier of a Key West marina when he saw what looked like a rotting tomato pounding against the rocks. The Coast Guard investigator waded ankle-deep into the water to fish out the ocean rubbish: a bright red Nikon camera, small enough to fit in the palm of his hand. Its waterproof plastic case was covered with six months' worth of crusty sea growth, but the camera itself was almost pristine when he found it May 16.
However, clues to tracking down its owner were few. So Shultz decided to test his investigative skills.
There were photos of two men preparing to scuba dive and a towheaded family nestled together on a couch. There was a mysterious relic settled deep into the sea floor. And even a puzzling video clip of splashing water that appeared to have been taken as the camera thrashed around under the control of something that wasn't human.
===========HOW could the camera make such a trip? Villy Kourafalou, an associate professor of physical oceanography at the University of Miami, said such an odyssey is possible. The buoyancy of the plastic case combined with various currents could have taken the camera to Key West, she told The Associated Press in an e-mail.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Expert: US Could Charge van der Sloot With Holloway's Murder


lots more at link...

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/articl...-van-der-sloot-with-holloways-murder/19515801

The US would have to decide to charge Joran with murder of a US citizen, something they haven't done up to now. but it would be better thsnever seeing him out of prison.

 

[Nana46]

Yours is an important question: Im going to try and shed light on this - its complicated but sometimes difficult to apply.

See: http://www.apsu.edu/oconnort/3210/3210lect06.htm

"Bloodstain patterns tell a lot about position and movement during the crime, who struck whom first, in what manner, and how many times. This destroys most alibi and self-defense arguments for crime, and at the very least, trips most suspects up in their explanation of what happened. Over the years, criminals have tried many ingenious ways to hide, clean up, and remove blood evidence, but it's an area where criminal justice technology has always stayed one step ahead of them."

In addition, Contact dna patterns can be helpful.

See: http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/forensics.shtml
and
http://www.dna.gov/basics/

Also finger print patterns on objects.

Any time you contact something you potentially leave dna, especially
through sweat and body fluids. If you strike something with force you always contact dna.
...............

There is nothing in Joran's account which says that Steph used
deadly force on him at any time, but only struck him on his temple
one time (so they will examine his temple area ... they already did
a body exanmination on him).

On the other hand we have wounds on Stephany which Joran's
account does not explain. Forensics will seek to establish how those
wounds occurred.

I hope Ive supplied something here that is helpful becuase I think yours
is a very important question.

Good work! Interesting in that got me to thinking about blood spatter....for some reason(dumb on my part I guess) I had not really thought about spatter so to speak....am aware of blood spatter and analysis from a gunshot just had not thought about it in any other way.....I hope to read more about this tomorrow...enjoy your posts!

 

[brazen]

I just found out today that he turned himself in, while in Chile.

If so, a huge mistake. By the time he was arrested the evidence was already being made public, so he had to know the police strongly believed in his guilt.

I think he was advised to do this by someone - sort of like - if the police are looking for you, go to them; it will vouch for your innocence. Joe T-opicsomething - his US attorney said on one of the TV shows that if he realizes the police are looking for him, he should turn himself in.

Lawyers always give this advice in the US - I wonder if they are required to say this - but, it's not good advice to someone guilty, especially outside their home country.

 

[Nana46]

WELCOME Brazen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bhammom]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post. Love the site very much and have learned a great deal.

Regarding Anita's reluctance to go to Peru -- I have a hard time believing she doesn't have money for plane fare. It's not that much money, and it's a critical time for her son.

I think she doesn't want to go - because she's tired of fixing Joran's problems, because there's not much she can do, because it's too embarrassing to be on display after all the evidence released to the public, because helping him is going to be very expensive. All good reasons -- but, still -- he's a monster, but he's her little monster.

Either they had a massive falling out, or she's a distant, disengaged mother. More and more, I think the latter -- it would explain the acting out as a youngster, the lack of impulse control, the sociapathy.

Would love to hear others' opinions.

Hi Brazen, Welcome to WS! I agree with you that Anita's reluctance to go to Peru is not all about money - although she would have to plan for hotels and meals in addition to airfare. I think it is more a matter of total embarrassment as well as dreading all the hate and attention. Look at how the crowds treated JVS, it is possible she would be booed and jeered. For all we know she may have already been getting hate mail and phone calls. She originally supported him 5 years ago. I remember her saying on TV that he couldn't have done anything bad because he was a
"sporter." Actually "delicious sporter" pops into my head but I can't believe she actually said that. LOL. I am sure she has led a rather peaceful life since he moved to Thailand and if they haven't been in contact since the dad died in Feb she has probably refused to send him money to support his gambling and other vices. She probably dreads being plunked down into the middle of all this chaos and is taking her time going to visit him. Even in the most serious case of denial surely she sees what a monster he is. JMHO

 

[rotterdam]

It appears that Anita has been struggling to raise enough money to fly to Peru. This would indicate that the late, "influential" Paulus Van der Sloot somehow ran through what should have been a substantial fortune, and evidently left his family unable to even afford the cost of a plane ticket.

Anita is an art teacher, so she obviously doesn't make a large salary. Just wanted to point all this out, to counter the constant mantra in the media about how "Daddy" pulled strings for Joran in Aruba, somehow getting the top officials to "cover up" his son's guilt, because the family was so "influential," rich and powerful.

I just wonder if both Joran and Paulus were addicted to gambling. That will deplete any family fortune real fast. Actually more expensive than drug addictions.

 

[newone]

Since there is no statue of limitations on murder in the USA I think they should let him sweat in the summertime heat of Castro Castro in Peru........

 

[LadyL]

Nancy's talking to Jean C. about Joran being processed into the prison, a mugshot taken, fingerprints taken and on record for him. Video of the prison from National Geographic film (not Joran). Jean C. says it has over 1500 people, poverty stricken area outside Lima, everyone jailed according to their offense except those in solitary, food he receives is what jail personnel receives because of fear of poisoning, eventually will be in general population.

Michael Griffith via phone talking about the prison, previous lawsuit against it. He believes it will be a "holding facility" for Joran until convicted and then sent to another prison. Nancy asking about prison uniforms. Jean C. explainng the authorities say uniforms considered "too degrading".

um, I would think with the numerous other human rights infractions that the only reason the prisoners don't have uniforms is b/c the 'authorities' won't spend money on them

:waitasec:

 

[rotterdam]

Yours is an important question: Im going to try and shed light on this - its complicated but sometimes difficult to apply.

See: http://www.apsu.edu/oconnort/3210/3210lect06.htm

"Bloodstain patterns tell a lot about position and movement during the crime, who struck whom first, in what manner, and how many times. This destroys most alibi and self-defense arguments for crime, and at the very least, trips most suspects up in their explanation of what happened. Over the years, criminals have tried many ingenious ways to hide, clean up, and remove blood evidence, but it's an area where criminal justice technology has always stayed one step ahead of them."

In addition, Contact dna patterns can be helpful.

See: http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/forensics.shtml
and
http://www.dna.gov/basics/

Also finger print patterns on objects. Finger print (HCl salts) can yield dna/mtdna as
well as raw prints ....

Any time you contact something you potentially leave dna, especially
through sweat and body fluids. If you strike something with force you always contact dna.
...............

There is nothing in Joran's account which says that Steph used
deadly force on him at any time, but only struck him on his temple
one time (so they will examine his temple area ... they already did
a body exanmination on him).

On the other hand we have wounds on Stephany which Joran's
account does not explain. Forensics will seek to establish how those
wounds occurred.

The FBI might be helpful in this -

I wonder how much real forensics was run early in the Holloway case - I doubt
there was much if anything, but I dont know. Ive never heard of anything...

Good point. Except in his "current" confession, did not he admit to some cleaning up in the room?

 

[suzihawk]

It appears that Anita has been struggling to raise enough money to fly to Peru. This would indicate that the late, "influential" Paulus Van der Sloot somehow ran through what should have been a substantial fortune, and evidently left his family unable to even afford the cost of a plane ticket.

Anita is an art teacher, so she obviously doesn't make a large salary. Just wanted to point all this out, to counter the constant mantra in the media about how "Daddy" pulled strings for Joran in Aruba, somehow getting the top officials to "cover up" his son's guilt, because the family was so "influential," rich and powerful.

The strings that were pulled for Joran in Aruba had more to do with Paulus' many associations and cronies in power (including the chief of police at the time) than it did with money, IMO. No doubt some palms were greased, however.

Also, I'm guessing that a great deal of money was spent these last five years on Joran's legal fees and various other expenses relating to his continual "troubles".

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html

 

[georger]

Good point. Except in his "current" confession, did not he admit to some cleaning up in the room?

He/s quite a character. His confession reads like the novel "iiawaH"
written backwards. He's being so helpful. Good lad. I wonder what
the CIA could get out of him and how many seconds it would take?

 

[suzihawk]

Hi Brazen, Welcome to WS! I agree with you that Anita's reluctance to go to Peru is not all about money - although she would have to plan for hotels and meals in addition to airfare. I think it is more a matter of total embarrassment as well as dreading all the hate and attention. Look at how the crowds treated JVS, it is possible she would be booed and jeered. For all we know she may have already been getting hate mail and phone calls. She originally supported him 5 years ago. I remember her saying on TV that he couldn't have done anything bad because he was a
"sporter." Actually "delicious sporter" pops into my head but I can't believe she actually said that. LOL. I am sure she has led a rather peaceful life since he moved to Thailand and if they haven't been in contact since the dad died in Feb she has probably refused to send him money to support his gambling and other vices. She probably dreads being plunked down into the middle of all this chaos and is taking her time going to visit him. Even in the most serious case of denial surely she sees what a monster he is. JMHO

I most definitely remember the reference to her "delicious sporter". Made me cringe then and still does today.

 

[suzihawk]

He/s quite a character. His confession reads like the novel "iiawaH"
written backwards. He's being so helpful. Good lad. I wonder what
the CIA could get out of him and how many seconds it would take?

LOL I especially enjoyed all the extra details as in the various brand names (clothes, tennis racquet, etc.). Also, how he appeared to get rather impatient with them (like they were wasting his precious time) when they questioned him about how much money he had when he came into the country.

 

[georger]

I most definitely remember the reference to her "delicious sporter". Made me cringe then and still does today.

She will be ok. She's a "sporter"!

 

[Brassband]

The strings that were pulled for Joran in Aruba had more to do with Paulus' many associations and cronies in power (including the chief of police at the time) than it did with money, IMO. No doubt some palms were greased, however.

Also, I'm guessing that a great deal of money was spent these last five years on Joran's legal fees and various other expenses relating to his continual "troubles".

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html

Joran has also made a lot of money. Greta Van Susteren interviewed Joran in 2006 on her show. I'm sure he got paid for that. Also, remember in 2008 Joran sold that tape recording of Paulus and himself discussing human trafficking to Greta for $10k. I'm sure Joran has made plenty of money selling his lies to various media outlets.