Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #18

[LiveLaughLuv]

Originally Posted by Unreals
I've done a lot of research into the Holloway case, and am firmly convinced that Joran had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance. I have to admit that, while I can document the efforts to unfairly blame him for what happened, I still don't quite understand why he was singled out, and why the focus on him started immediately and never became diverted.

I suspect that there is some powerful connection in the Holloway case that hasn't been completely uncovered yet. Again, all I can analyze is the evidence, and I don't think there is any against him in the Holloway case, while I'm suspicious about everything in the Peru case.

If Joran had nothing to do with Natalee's death, why would he confess several times? I know he recanted several times too but I can't understand why someone innocent has worked so hard to make himself look so guilty.

If JVS was innocent of Natalee's disappearance/death, why is he tormenting the Holloways? Why did he try to extort money from them for him to tell what he did with her?

JVS was caught on camera leaving with Natalee, same with Stephany. He admits to putting her in a pond, he admits to putting her in the ocean, he admits to selling her, which is it? He is the prime suspect and this conspiracy theory he had nothing to do with Natalee is nonsense..He's been torturing Beth and Dave ever since. I believe JVDS is evil as they come, has no respect for woman and thinks he's all that. I blame his upbringing for letting things slip by and then sending him away to school to cover it up..JMHO

His psych report is in....see below

Lima, Peru (CNN) -- Joran van der Sloot has a low tolerance for frustration and "doesn't value the female role," according to excerpts from a psychological investigation report given to a judge by prosecutors Monday.

According to the document, van der Sloot, suspected of killing a Peruvian woman late last month, "does not tolerate when someone tries to contradict him. It generates in him a challenging attitude."

The report calls him "emotionally immature," which elicits strong changes in behavior that can send him out of control.

"He reflects a certain dominance over the opposite sex. He doesn't value the female role," the document states.

more at the link:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/21/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=C1

 

[georger]

From my understanding it's not her body but a 'stand in' ie a girl in a similar position. I'm going to do a search for a link and see if we can get an accurate answer to this dilemma...conflicting reports to be sure!

The photos of the wounds on his hands are very telling what could have created such an unusual wound? A tooth or a piece of jewellry perhaps ... On phone at mo will jump onto laptop and have a look.

I wondered about a tooth myself but its the wrong shape for an incisor.
or a row of teeth. The wound is circular with a straight line (about half the radius of the circle) off to one side. It could have come from him pounding the wall in his room in Chile too, or during his arrest. Its just that the shape seems very specific somehow; maybe Im guessing too much.

He had interaction when he left TAC. Did anyone notice wounds on him
then, especially on his hands?

Maybe its a leech bite? :angel:

 

[georger]

Sorry to dash all your hard work!

No problem at all! Forensics is all about hard evidence and discussion
and peer review are required, and even admired. Its an interactive process and thats part of the work. Thanks & appreciated!

In other cases we discuss evidence for months and even years waiting for the right
theory of the evidence. In one case I know a murder turned four years later on the
slant (angle) of the filament in a headlight when the vehicle had hit a runner late at
night - the impact caused the hot impact side filament to distort by 30 degrees
(same angle as impact) and presented with the evidence the person confessed. That
was a case in Wisconsin many years ago ... of course the glass had to be removed
carefully from the headlamp to get to the filament but the evidence was accepted in
Court. The technique is now SOP in LE forensics. So details do matter ...

 

[Mrs G Norris]

True but I would think that someone innocent wouldn't want to make money by trying to make himself look guilty. I would think most innocent people would want the world to know that they were innocent. I think they would spend their time trying to convince everyone of their innocence. Joran has spent his time trying to make himself look guilty and made money doing it.

Agree, even more proof of guilt, and his diabolical nature.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I wondered about a tooth myself but its the wrong shape for an incisor.
or a row of teeth. The wound is circular with a straight line (about half the radius of the circle) off to one side. It could have come from him pounding the wall in his room in Chile too, or during his arrest. Its just that the shape seems very specific somehow; maybe Im guessing too much.

He had interaction when he left TAC. Did anyone notice wounds on him
then, especially on his hands?

Maybe its a leech bite? :angel:

You know what...that pic was taken on the 11th, which is over a week after the murder, and it looks like a fresh wound. So perhaps he has punched a wall in the cell in frustration?

Or a rat bite perhaps?

 

[georger]

You know what...that pic was taken on the 11th, which is over a week after the murder, and it looks like a fresh wound. So perhaps he has punched a wall in the cell in frustration?

Or a rat bite perhaps?

Nope, leech bite from some hole in the ground :waitasec:

 

[Patty G]

That could explain the difference in layouts. So have any actual
crime scene photos been published - maybe not?

I thought the early reports said she was rolled up in a rug or something?
Joran said he laid his shirt over her? So why would they do a reenactment with the actual body as is shown in several Radar images?
I confess to being confused ...

Here is a image (below) from the police report that came out about 2 ++ weeks ago. By all accounts, the NE photo is a reenactment, and I believe one of the members here stated that the word "reenactment" was in print as she bought the paper.

 

[Unreals]

LivLaughLuv,

First, Joran was not caught on any film leaving Carlos 'n Charlie's with Natalee. Keep in mind that every time he "confessed" anything in regards to the Holloway case, he was paid money to do so. In addition to being a habitual liar, Joran clearly has no scruples about selling false stories. I think the only explanation for this is that he knows he didn't do anything to harm Natalee, so no matter what ridiculous story he tells about that, no evidence will ever be found to verify it.

On the other hand, during the three months he was jailed in Aruba, Joran never cracked or admitted anything. Of course, no one was offering to pay him for his story.

I acknowledged that Joran is a hard guy to defend- he has issues and is often his own worst enemy. That being said, all one can do is analyze the evidence. As I've indicated, I've been disturbed from the beginning about almost every aspect of the murder in Peru. I think there is good reason to be skeptical about everything the Peruvian authorities are saying.

 

[faw720]

I've done a lot of research into the Holloway case, and am firmly convinced that Joran had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance. I have to admit that, while I can document the efforts to unfairly blame him for what happened, I still don't quite understand why he was singled out, and why the focus on him started immediately and never became diverted.

I suspect that there is some powerful connection in the Holloway case that hasn't been completely uncovered yet. Again, all I can analyze is the evidence, and I don't think there is any against him in the Holloway case, while I'm suspicious about everything in the Peru case.

Perhaps attention was focused on Joran because of his actions. In most instances, if something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, & quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

 

[Patty G]

Here is one series. I have circled just two areas but there are other
areas of abrasion, redness-swelling, laceration, etc down to the redness at his right wrist where are the handcuffs. There is an open wound at the
edge of the finger nail on his fourth finger... etc. (I could have filled one
photo with circles at the various sites).

Copy this photo composite and zoom it to show in larger frame the details ...

We need a photo from June 3, 2010 when Joran was arrested to compare with the June 11, 2010 in order to see if the injuries are from after his arrest more so then from May 30, 2010.

 

[suzihawk]

I can't seem to access the De Telegraaf article everyone is talking about. Can someone please link it again?

Looks like I missed a lot when I decided to retire early last night. Figures.

I just can't buy into this ginaormous conspiracy theory. Why would someone frame an unstable kid for the deaths of not one, but TWO young women? Because he was the last to happen to be seen with Natalee? Why would he repeatedly confess? Who's funding this cover-up as the costs would have to be enormous? If it's to cover for some horrendous family secret (as has been suggested), why would the Holloways go to Aruba and makes such a big stink that it continually keeps the focus of the entire world on themselves for five long years - considering they're so desperate to keep anyone from finding out... whatever it is?

I stumbled upon a forum that is just chock full of conspiracy theories. Two Stephany's, two Joran's, Stephany was some sort of double agent that made a mistake and got herself killed, etc. All bunk! It will certainly provide enough fodder to further promote your theories - and I'm sure it would provide great reading for the book you're looking to publish.

 

[Peliman]

LivLaughLuv,

First, Joran was not caught on any film leaving Carlos 'n Charlie's with Natalee. Keep in mind that every time he "confessed" anything in regards to the Holloway case, he was paid money to do so. In addition to being a habitual liar, Joran clearly has no scruples about selling false stories. I think the only explanation for this is that he knows he didn't do anything to harm Natalee, so no matter what ridiculous story he tells about that, no evidence will ever be found to verify it.

On the other hand, during the three months he was jailed in Aruba, Joran never cracked or admitted anything. Of course, no one was offering to pay him for his story.

I acknowledged that Joran is a hard guy to defend- he has issues and is often his own worst enemy. That being said, all one can do is analyze the evidence. As I've indicated, I've been disturbed from the beginning about almost every aspect of the murder in Peru. I think there is good reason to be skeptical about everything the Peruvian authorities are saying.

You see, I'm skeptical to the point that the FBI may have lured JVS to Peru because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and VDS was going to be arrested for extortion. I'll even assume for the moment the cameras at TAC were from FBI surveillance (Which is doubtful but possible) we're going to hear it.

I am not a lawyer but have had law classes and there is one lesson that sticks in my head. My professor stated it doesn't have to be right, it doesn't have to be fair, it doesn't have to be just, it just has to be legal.

So please tell me what you find illegal by law in the confessions or if there was an FBI sting in place what LE did that was illegal.

 

[Patty G]

Has anyone read or heard about when "Stephany's" autopsy report will be released?

 

[Sanny]

Good Morning WSers.....

Well the loonies are coming out in droves.....this just in.
I never posted a link before so here goes.......

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/sloot_getting_marriage_proposals_JNb5fjlXr5DbWyp8jLLz8L

 

[Sanny]

Can you imagine what these marriage proposals are doing to his EGO which is already the size of TEXAS and CALIFORNIA combined.

One only wonders what kind of people these girls/women are but in any big murder case they undoubtedly come out of the woodwork looking for notoriety and their 15 minutes connection to a case or they are just plain NUTS.

IMO

 

[Peliman]

Can you imagine what these marriage proposals are doing to his EGO which is already the size of TEXAS and CALIFORNIA combined.

One only wonders what kind of people these girls/women are but in any big murder case they undoubtedly come out of the woodwork looking for notoriety and their 15 minutes connection to a case or they are just plain NUTS.

IMO

Yep, they're nuttier than a pecan pie. :waitasec:

 

[FLNY]

I can't seem to access the De Telegraaf article everyone is talking about. Can someone please link it again?

Looks like I missed a lot when I decided to retire early last night. Figures.

I just can't buy into this ginaormous conspiracy theory. Why would someone frame an unstable kid for the deaths of not one, but TWO young women? Because he was the last to happen to be seen with Natalee? Why would he repeatedly confess? Who's funding this cover-up as the costs would have to be enormous? If it's to cover for some horrendous family secret (as has been suggested), why would the Holloways go to Aruba and makes such a big stink that it continually keeps the focus of the entire world on themselves for five long years - considering they're so desperate to keep anyone from finding out... whatever it is?

I stumbled upon a forum that is just chock full of conspiracy theories. Two Stephany's, two Joran's, Stephany was some sort of double agent that made a mistake and got herself killed, etc. All bunk! If anyone would like the link to the site (Unreals?), PM me. It will certainly provide enough fodder to further promote your theories - and I'm sure it would provide great reading for the book you're looking to publish.

Suzihawk, here's the de Telegraaf article that started the whole brouhaha over an FBI undercover operation....give me a break..IMO:

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/...t_met_rechter__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

Once again, the version that this link points to is somewhat different than the original which I captured earlier this morning.

 

[Sanny]

Im going to post the attached which is a blowup of the laceration on his right hand middle finger knuckle - note the very specific geometry (shape)
of the wound. This looks like a percussion wound and I wonder if the
geometry of this wound matches some specific object at the crime scene.
(like a piece of her ear ring?). Its just a thought... however the wound could have
occured after the crime also (just no sure way to knoiw unless something at the crime
scene matches the wound).

The false color in the large image is an artifact of processing used to bring out underlying detail ... its a common technique.

I assure everyone I did not invent this. What you are seeing is the actual shape of
the one wound on Joran's knuckle. My work can be easily duplicated for verification.

Thanks for the knuckle blowup....it certainly is a fresh wound there ....and I'm sure the Peruvians have that in their file also. He did more than just an elbow to the nose. This girl was brutally, viciously murdered in cold blood.
His rage took over and he went wild.

 

[Paintr]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008352-504083.html

The crime scene photos were obtained by "48 Hours | Mystery" from sources close to the investigation.

Are these genuine?

 

[Sanny]

Suzihawk, here's the de Telegraaf article that started the whole brouhaha over an FBI undercover operation....give me a break..IMO:

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/...t_met_rechter__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

Once again, the version that this link points to is somewhat different than the original which I captured earlier this morning.

Sorry FLNY I haven't been schooled in DUTCH.:furious: