Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #18

[costalpilot]

Now she's dealing with the unanticipated trauma of Joran being charged with murder in another country. With all that she's been through in the past few months, I suspect that she simply doesn't know what to do or say.

my bolding.

she should have anticipated he could do it again. she made a big mistake 5 years ago. did she think it would just go away? did she really think she was helping him by sticking her head in the sand?

ever hear of Karma anita?

 

[Unreals]

my bolding.

she should have anticipated he could do it again. she made a big mistake 5 years ago. did she think it would just go away? did she really think she was helping him by sticking her head in the sand?

ever hear of Karma anita?

Some of us don't think Joran had anything to do with Natalee's disappearance, and I'm among the unwashed few who don't think he killed Stephany, either. Maybe his mother really did think her son was innocent.

 

[marikesh]

I think it's saying there weren't cameras near other rooms, only his, and that the Peruvian LE and the FBI were using his for surveillance of him! IMO

I have trouble believing that. If it was for the extortion they were after Joran for, why give him 2 weeks to play around and spend the money? Why sacrifice a lovely young lady? How would FBI and Peru LE have been able to convince an intelligent being to entrap Joran, go to his room and pressure him into killing her? This is plainly conspiracy theory that persons want to post on every forum, imo.

 

[hollyblue]

I also do not fully understand. Anyway, this stuff is not coming from Joran but from the two Dutch reporters. John van de Heuvel is a crime reporter at a Peter de Vries level. LOL, Elton Garcia an American agent?
BTW in AVDS interview two days ago, she did state that somebody invited Joran to Peru

I knew there would be an internet connection to someone in SA before he took off-- somewhere in the works-- and EG was prolly playing poker with SF at the time of it--two weeks prior? I also think there is something fishy about the guy in the green (striped) shirt that sits directly across from SF at the table. He arrives at the same time as JVS and then the guy in green shows up coming from "somewhere" in the top left hand corner again, just right as JVS and SF get up to leave. Like it could be planned or something. Then there is the guy in the upper right--leaning against a table? right before they get up. SF goes to cash in her chips and then the tape jumps to JVS and SF by the wall in the upper part of the video. JVS high fives the guy in green at one point, a strange little man talks to JVS (passing something?) and the guy leaning against the table starts talking to the man that was previously talking to JVS. The guy in green is intriguing to me, but the whole scenario of them "leaving" is interesting. Hope you can follow that.:waitasec:

I read somewhere previously tonight, that some people think EG was on the video. I don't see him, but you would think they would have conversed. Unless my eyes are just really bad and he's the guy in the green shirt.:innocent:

 

[Unreals]

I have trouble believing that. If it was for the extortion they were after Joran for, why give him 2 weeks to play around and spend the money? Why sacrifice a lovely young lady? How would FBI and Peru LE have been able to convince an intelligent being to entrap Joran, go to his room and pressure him into killing her? This is plainly conspiracy theory that persons want to post on every forum, imo.

I DO love conspiracy theories, I readily acknowledge. However, this case has many puzzling questions about it. The "coincidence" meter alone is unbelievable; exact five year anniversary of Natalee's disapperance, the "extortion" story breaking on the exact day Joran was apprehended, the whole "sting" in Aruba happening on May 10, just before Joran decides (rather inexplicably, imho) to go to Peru, the fact that a security camera just happened to be located right outside his hotel room door, etc.

Joran has been vilified in the American media for five years. On only rare occasions has any "journalist" been unbiased about him, let alone interpreted anything in his favor. I think that, if he wasn't thought of as a sociopath/ psychopath/serial killer by the vast majority of the public in America and Peru (if not Aruba and the Netherlands, now), then the murder of Stephany would be looked at a lot differently by everyone.

There are many legitimate reasons to doubt the validity of the "evidence" coming from the authorities in Peru.

 

[rotterdam]

invited in this case is a loose term.....he was a gambler and knew where the tournaments were going to be held -- maybe he even got an online invitation to attend as he was an online gambler

You could be right. Her exact words in the interview were "Somebody had invited him"

 

[hollyblue]

How does that go with him being able to escape the country and nobody apparently knowing where he was?

If they had him under surveillance and his phone tapped, wouldn't they have his room bugged too...especially since they think he killed NH...and here he has another young woman in his hotel room.

Of course, unless it was a frame job (conspiracy) and SF is really not dead. Just staged for JVS to chit bricks when he returns from the coffee. He goes back into room from coffee run and then comes right back out after 10 minutes and acts like he has no sense.

Be nice now...please... As I've said before, if this is a frame job....you and I and the rest of everyone not involved will never ever know it. It's possible, but is it probable? Just strange food for thought.

 

[marikesh]

Anita's interview was also with the Telegraaf two days earlier where she states that Joran was invited to Lima. I never considered the Telegraaf like a National Enquirer though or similar tabloid. But I need to see a lot more proof before I believe this tale.

I'd like to know where Anita got that bit about Joran being invited to Peru. Since all that has been going on, I find that strange too. Too many lies.

 

[Unreals]

This is just my opinion, but I think that Joran was lured to Peru for a reason. I think he was going to be framed for something, but I don't believe it was supposed be for murder. Of course, I could easily be wrong.

I think the key to this whole case, and what first really raised my suspicions, is the fact that Stephany supposedly died early Sunday morning, but her body wasn't discovered until early Wednesday. It just has never made sense to me that any hotel would leave a room unchecked like that for three days.

So...I postulate that Stephany somehow informed Joran of what was about to happen. She was supposed to be a part of whatever was taking place, in some limited capacity (probably to lure him into something). She felt guilty, told him the truth, and he fled. She might have even urged him to take her vehicle, rationalizing that she was now in great danger herself and it would only give away the fact she was at the hotel. When those behind whatever was being planned for Joran discovered her betrayal, she was killed and a quick decision made to frame him for it.

Anyhow, that's just my conjecture. It may sound outlandish, but the truth often is. I certainly would love to view all the uncut video tape....

 

[DollyPardonMe]

I'd like to know where Anita got that bit about Joran being invited to Peru. Since all that has been going on, I find that strange too. Too many lies.

I get the impression AVS does quite a bit of lying herself. She never mentions Joran is INVITED to Peru..In her interview with De Telegraph he went to Peru to escape being admitted into a psychiatric clinic in the Netherlands. "He agreed to being admitted. Two days before having to leave for the Netherlands he left home." Anita reportedly then found a note on the kitchen table telling her not to worry. Nothing about an invitation!!

 

[rotterdam]

I DO love conspiracy theories, I readily acknowledge. However, this case has many puzzling questions about it. The "coincidence" meter alone is unbelievable; exact five year anniversary of Natalee's disapperance, the "extortion" story breaking on the exact day Joran was apprehended, the whole "sting" in Aruba happening on May 10, just before Joran decides (rather inexplicably, imho) to go to Peru, the fact that a security camera just happened to be located right outside his hotel room door, etc.

Joran has been vilified in the American media for five years. On only rare occasions has any "journalist" been unbiased about him, let alone interpreted anything in his favor. I think that, if he wasn't thought of as a sociopath/ psychopath/serial killer by the vast majority of the public in America and Peru (if not Aruba and the Netherlands, now), then the murder of Stephany would be looked at a lot differently by everyone.

There are many legitimate reasons to doubt the validity of the "evidence" coming from the authorities in Peru.

I am still baffled by the astonishing speed the Chileans apprehended Joran unless he really turned himself in. Interpol does not work that fast. Equally surprised how fast they expelled him. He was already over 2000 miles or kilometers away from the crime scene. LOL, maybe the FBI has GPS installed in his laptop.
I do believe however, he murdered Stephany. And also believe that she was not "sacrificed" or something like that by anybody..

 

[marikesh]

I DO love conspiracy theories, I readily acknowledge. However, this case has many puzzling questions about it. The "coincidence" meter alone is unbelievable; exact five year anniversary of Natalee's disapperance, the "extortion" story breaking on the exact day Joran was apprehended, the whole "sting" in Aruba happening on May 10, just before Joran decides (rather inexplicably, imho) to go to Peru, the fact that a security camera just happened to be located right outside his hotel room door, etc.

Joran has been vilified in the American media for five years. On only rare occasions has any "journalist" been unbiased about him, let alone interpreted anything in his favor. I think that, if he wasn't thought of as a sociopath/ psychopath/serial killer by the vast majority of the public in America and Peru (if not Aruba and the Netherlands, now), then the murder of Stephany would be looked at a lot differently by everyone.

There are many legitimate reasons to doubt the validity of the "evidence" coming from the authorities in Peru.

The information concerning the removal of secruity cameras come from John de Heuval (sp), who has had problems making it in the journalism field, hit and miss with a few articles. He interviews Anita and then Joran, and comes up with wild schemes. Is he not any different that American media with their stories? Anita claims Joran was invited, shortly after being in shock that Joran was arrested in Peru. Is Anita getting her stories from someone at the Dutch consulate in Peru, making them up again, or John?
Yes many dates are co-incidental but that's all.
I believe Peru will be sticking to strict policy procedure since they have the attention of the world and human rights groups on them.

 

[georger]

I agree with your opinion that the security cameras might be involved in the investigation, as well as the room, which is the CRIME SCENE...

They may have been removed for the investigation...That to me would make sense...They may want a through investigation of EVERYTHING involving her murder..all in my own opinion

I agree.

This might also be a good time for me to point out that the Radar images of the crime scene are incorrect and right-left reversed, in contrast to the FOX room vid photos with Greta which are orthologically correct. I have uploaded the original Radar photos which are right-left reversed and
incorrect, and corrected versions of these photos corrected by me. I am
sure readers will see the difference. Again... the FOX video photos are
orthologically correct so you can compare the Radar images with the
FOX vid snaps.

Radar also presented a hand drawn graphic of the crime scene which is
not correct. The Radar crime scene graphic shows Steph's body in a
different position vrs. Radar's own crime scene photos. (I will upload that
graphic on my next round so people can compare it).

 

[georger]

Oh puhleeze ... when I was instructed to read the first article I clicked on something about Peruvian women wanting to get impregnated by JVDS. Thinking oh puhleeze...I continued until I found the article about Elton Garcia etc etc. and thinking it was just as believable as the wannabe baby mommas from Peru

I had the same reaction! What next!?

 

[hollyblue]

Cottages,

I don't believe that Joran will claim Stephany was killed by others in front of him. But you never know, he is full of stories. As I noted, I believe he is innocent of wrongdoing in both this case and the Natalee Holloway disappearance, but he is an inveterate liar and that makes it even harder to defend him. That being said, I think the most likely scenario would be that she was still alive when Joran left the hotel for good.

As for anything else that has been claimed by the Peruvian authorities, remember that they also claimed Joran willingly "confessed." If it can be demonstrated that he didn't, and a false "confession" was prepared for him to sign, I think that all of their claims must be seen in a more skeptical light. We don't know what the video tape from that camera shows, except for the excerpts we've all seen numerous times. To be certain, we would have to see the uncut tape, especially from the time Joran left until the moment when a hotel worker opens the door and finds her body. If anyone is seen on that tape, leaving or entering his room during that time, then Joran is unquestionably innocent.

BUT, why and who would someone want to plan a strategic conspiracy against JVS for killing Natalee and then Stephany in the first place?

 

[rotterdam]

I get the impression AVS does quite a bit of lying herself. She never mentions Joran is INVITED to Peru..In her interview with De Telegraph he went to Peru to escape being admitted into a psychiatric clinic in the Netherlands. "He agreed to being admitted. Two days before having to leave for the Netherlands he left home." Anita reportedly then found a note on the kitchen table telling her not to worry. Nothing about an invitation!!

This is snipped from the longer interview version in the paper version of the Telegraaf

snipped
"Twee dagen voor hij naar Nederland zou, vond ik dat briefje toen ik thuiskwam. Hij was vertrokken naar Peru voor een pokertoernooi. Iemand had hem uitgenodigd.

English; Two days before he would go to The Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Somebody had invited him".

I suspect she got that info from Jorans' note. All IMO ofcourse.

 

[georger]

I agree.

This might also be a good time for me to point out that the Radar images of the crime scene are incorrect and right-left reversed, in contrast to the FOX room vid photos with Greta which are orthologically correct. I have uploaded the original Radar photos which are right-left reversed and
incorrect, and corrected versions of these photos corrected by me. I am
sure readers will see the difference. Again... the FOX video photos are
orthologically correct so you can compare the Radar images with the
FOX vid snaps.

Radar also presented a hand drawn graphic of the crime scene which is
not correct. The Radar crime scene graphic shows Steph's body in a
different position vrs. Radar's own crime scene photos. (I will upload that
graphic on my next round so people can compare it).

Here is Radar's incorrect crime scene graphic. It isnt even an accurate depiction of the room. Compare this to Radar's own crime scene photos and the crime scene description from authorities/reporters... notice in the Radar photos Steph is wrapped up in a towel
(looks almost like a rug)?

PS* The issue of hand wounds on Joran came up earlier. I have clear photos of his hand wounds taken at the time of booking, if anyone wants me to post them. (I have already shared these photos with one group member, privately).

 

[marikesh]

BUT, why and who would someone want to plan a strategic conspiracy against JVS for killing Natalee and then Stephany in the first place?

Some believe the FBI are doing this all for Beth because she wanted revenge against Joran. AVS still considers her and the media as the reason Joran's life escalated hownhill.

 

[hollyblue]

I DO love conspiracy theories, I readily acknowledge. However, this case has many puzzling questions about it. The "coincidence" meter alone is unbelievable; exact five year anniversary of Natalee's disapperance, the "extortion" story breaking on the exact day Joran was apprehended, the whole "sting" in Aruba happening on May 10, just before Joran decides (rather inexplicably, imho) to go to Peru, the fact that a security camera just happened to be located right outside his hotel room door, etc.

Joran has been vilified in the American media for five years. On only rare occasions has any "journalist" been unbiased about him, let alone interpreted anything in his favor. I think that, if he wasn't thought of as a sociopath/ psychopath/serial killer by the vast majority of the public in America and Peru (if not Aruba and the Netherlands, now), then the murder of Stephany would be looked at a lot differently by everyone.

There are many legitimate reasons to doubt the validity of the "evidence" coming from the authorities in Peru.

I will say there are many "conveniences" being seen here, but again, that's part of the (fist up the butt). A good conspirator will let you know you have been "skewered" after the fog settles and there is no way you can convince other people---they would think you were completely bonkos. Remember the movie with Mel Gibson. This is no entrapment of the fox in a little cage, it's chasing him into a corner to mentally and physically obliterate him.

Again, not saying it happened here.

 

[marikesh]

BUT, why and who would someone want to plan a strategic conspiracy against JVS for killing Natalee and then Stephany in the first place?

Some feel that Beth and FBI are working together to get revenge on Joran. It will soon include the Flores family most likely.
I truly believe that Mr. Flores is a gracious man to include thoughts on Natalee with his speech he has given. Considering what the family has gone through and is going through, they remain most gracious.