Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #9

[nums24]

He COULD have asked her to just leave....at that point...

she would probably have been GLAD to leave....

It has not ceased to amaze me....WHY NO ONE..heard her screaming while she was being beaten?????

I couldn't agree more! I do not believe his confession, I feel he is looking to reduce his sentence.

 

[Linda7NJ]

He COULD have asked her to just leave....at that point...

she would probably have been GLAD to leave....

It has not ceased to amaze me....WHY NO ONE..heard her screaming while she was being beaten?????

She probably didn't scream. Not everyone is a screamer. I didn't scream when attacked, some people do and some people are more focused on fighting, getting away...etc...

 

[Kat]

This is a bit off topic but I'm posting it as it relates to JVDS. FWIW, I have yet to find a publication (book, periodical...etc.) that states that within every lie there is a kernel of truth. If someone could lead me to one I will gladly read it.

As far as JVDS from what we've read and heard from him over the past 5 years, I don't see that as even applying in an anecdotal way. I'd be curious to know if he is what is defined as a pathological liar.

Just wanted to throw that out there. Although I do know that there are a great many personal experiences that have been shared here on WS about the topic and also a great many anecdotal experiences that have been seen in cases (as interpreted by either the person posting or the author of books and articles on the topic). I have to reserve my opinion on that every lie contains the truth in some way. 1. Because I haven't seen it proven within the scientific community that studies that branch of psychology and 2. Because if it is true, how in the world can you decipher which part of the lie is true?

Anyone who can lead me to a published source on this is thanked in advance!

 

[frenchvixen]

She probably didn't scream. Not everyone is a screamer. I didn't scream when attacked, some people do and some people are more focused on fighting, getting away...etc...

Is that something that you can control (screaming)? How can you get beat to death and not scream? I don't think that's possible.

 

[krowdkat]

~Repectfully snipped for space~

Where is this info coming from that he paid for late days?

Mohabi's translation of a video report out of Peru (post # 15 at the link below)

There, the police found out that the Dutchman bought two cups of coffee at 8:00 am on Sunday, returned to the hotel, went up to his room, and returned with only one cup of coffee to pay for 2 late days, and it was 8:25. At 8:45 he left with a black backpack and a brown suitcase in his hand. They never saw him again.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5266474&posted=1#post5266474

 

[gibby207]

Is that something that you can control (screaming)? How can you get beat to death and not scream? I don't think that's possible.

Suffocation/choking, blocking the airway and means for air to cross vocal cords...

 

[passionflower]

Scary fellow.. the love child of O.J. and Scott Peterson. His godfather is Ted Bundy.. What a monster in the making. Imagine if he was out on the streets until he was in his 30's? Look at all the damage he has done between 17 and 22 (not to mention the dog killing incident that happened when he was even younger).

BBM I never knew that..........has the trait of animal killing also?
geez..............how young was he then???

 

[krowdkat]

Not the exact time of death, but about a 10 or 15 minute window.

He didn't leave the room wearing clothes that he killed Natalee in. Using the surveillance footage, they know it was around 30 minutes that he entered the room with his old clothes, and then left the room for good in the new, with the bags.

And, I wanted to add they know how much blood was on the white shirt he was wearing because all reports indicate they recovered that shirt. I think that's why we aren't seeing the video of Joran leaving and coming back from the coffee trip. LE will use this info to collaberate Joran's walk through re-enactment.

 

[Kat]

Is that something that you can control (screaming)? How can you get beat to death and not scream? I don't think that's possible.

I think that it's possible. Especially if the initial blow either incapacitates the victim, knocks them out, or knocks them out of being able to comprehend what is happening to them. I've heard Doctors describe that a sudden very violent (hard) blow to the head will disorient and confuse the victim. JMHO and just something I heard from a Doc talking about another case.

 

[zoomom]

FrenchVixen - JMO, just my 2 cents,

FWIW - Not to dismiss your post AT ALL, but- when my first husband used to beat me I never screamed. That would have taken too much thought for me at the time it was happening. I was too focused on trying to stay alive, fight back, and escape. That was just me though.

However that was a lifetime ago. I do yell when I get mad now, but that's a different emotion alltogether.

 

[GameTheory]

This is a bit off topic but I'm posting it as it relates to JVDS. FWIW, I have yet to find a publication (book, periodical...etc.) that states that within every lie there is a kernel of truth. If someone could lead me to one I will gladly read it.

As far as JVDS from what we've read and heard from him over the past 5 years, I don't see that as even applying in an anecdotal way. I'd be curious to know if he is what is defined as a pathological liar.

Just wanted to throw that out there. Although I do know that there are a great many personal experiences that have been shared here on WS about the topic and also a great many anecdotal experiences that have been seen in cases (as interpreted by either the person posting or the author of books and articles on the topic). I have to reserve my opinion on that every lie contains the truth in some way. 1. Because I haven't seen it proven within the scientific community that studies that branch of psychology and 2. Because if it is true, how in the world can you decipher which part of the lie is true?

Anyone who can lead me to a published source on this is thanked in advance!

Hey. I am not sure if your question was initiated by my earlier post where I said there is a truth in every lie. I am not in any position to provide any bibliography, but I know that when we constract a fictional story there are always elements there that are true because it is easier and FASTER and more convincing if we constract a story that has many elements of truth, like pick various pieces of information joining together and joining the lie together.

An example I can give is for Joran wanting to make up a story to show that he wasn't planning on killing her, it was something that happened because of instant anger because he felt wronged. This is his main concern, to show that he didnt plan to kills her, it was his ''justified'' anger of Stephany doing something to him. His main concern is to build a story to illuminate this. What could Stephany do to cause this terrible offend to him? Searching his computer and finding information on him. It could be true that Joran was searching himself for info on his Holloway case earlier that day and it fits pretty well with this story. If he actually had a box of newspaper clippings under his bed he could have said Stephany found them. I am not arguing the above is true, just trying to explain how we dress a lie with true information, because the goal of a lie is specific and the ''dressing'' of the lie usually happens with real information.

Sorry this is the best I could explain what I meant.

 

[Wings Of Light]

~Repectfully snipped for space~



Mohabi's translation of a video report out of Peru (post # 15 at the link below)

There, the police found out that the Dutchman bought two cups of coffee at 8:00 am on Sunday, returned to the hotel, went up to his room, and returned with only one cup of coffee to pay for 2 late days, and it was 8:25. At 8:45 he left with a black backpack and a brown suitcase in his hand. They never saw him again.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5266474&posted=1#post5266474

They cite 8:45, which is the incorrect Lobby footage time. He left at 8:56. Given that error, I would suggest everyone take that source with a huge grain of salt. Additionally, the 8:25 paid for late days has also been shown to be untrue.

 

[CCup]

I think the missing pants could have another logical explanation. When JVDS went out for coffee, Stephany took a shower. Maybe she washed her pants a little bit in the seat area and they were drying.

I can honestly say that I would never do this!! If I needed to change my pants I would have gone home, there is no way I am going to take my pants off and wash them in someone else's hotel room. And I am definetly not going to take my pants off lounge around just to be more comfortable, especially while Aunt Flo is in town(or menstrating).

 

[justus4all]

I think that it's possible. Especially if the initial blow either incapacitates the victim, knocks them out, or knocks them out of being able to comprehend what is happening to them. I've heard Doctors describe that a sudden very violent (hard) blow to the head will disorient and confuse the victim. JMHO and just something I heard from a Doc talking about another case.

WOW!!! If Joran DID strike her severe enough to disorient/confuse her in the first couple of blows...WHY did he KEEP beating her...until she died???

It sounds like...IMO...he "disabled" her from screaming..while he beat her to death......for looking at his lap top???

IMO...he was ANGRY and became VIOLENT with her...because she was going to leave/deny him money/...and that was the reason he had her ...come to his room....FOR HER MONEY.....THAT NOW MAKES SENSE TO ME...

all in my own opinion....What a horrible death she must have went thru..

 

[KR2tonenow]

You are essentially correct. And yes, I agree that Civ Pro (and Crim Pro) are not simple subjects--that is why our offices are lined with all those leather bound books! There is no question that the FBI had no jurisdiction whatsoever to arrest Joran in Aruba for the crimes charged. No way, no how, could not do it. I think what everyone is also failing to understand is that the FBI is merely an investigative agency. They did not file the criminal complaint and they have no ability to do so. They do not prosecute cases and they have no ability to do so. They investigate and turn the results over to the US Attorney's office whose lawyers then decided whether or not there is enough evidence to prosecute. If the sting went down on May 10th--I don't care how much or what evidence the FBI had--there is no way the US Attorney's office would have had the time to receive all of the information, confirm the investigative results, confirm chain-of-custody-determine the offense occurred and was prosecutable, etc. on that day or by the time Joran left Aruba.

Excellent, Thank you!

 

[nums24]

Van der Sloot re-enactment not certain
By the CNN Wire Staff
June 9, 2010 5:56 p.m. EDT

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/09/peru.murder.case/index.html

snipped:

Lima, Peru (CNN) -- A re-enactment of the crime in which a Peruvian woman was killed may not take place because authorities could decide they already have enough evidence, Peruvian officials said Wednesday.

 

[Kat]

Hey. I am not sure if your question was initiated by my earlier post where I said there is a truth in every lie. I am not in any position to provide any bibliography, but I know that when we constract a fictional story there are always elements there that are true because it is easier and FASTER and more convincing if we constract a story that has many elements of truth, like pick various pieces of information joining together and joining the lie together.

An example I can give is for Joran wanting to make up a story to show that he wasn't planning on killing her, it was something that happened because of instant anger because he felt wronged. This is his main concern, to show that he didnt plan to kills her, it was his ''justified'' anger of Stephany doing something to him. His main concern is to build a story to illuminate this. What could Stephany do to cause this terrible offend to him? Searching his computer and finding information on him. It could be true that Joran was searching himself for info on his Holloway case earlier that day and it fits pretty well with this story. If he actually had a box of newspaper clippings under his bed he could have said Stephany found them. I am not arguing the above is true, just trying to explain how we dress a lie with true information, because the goal of a lie is specific and the ''dressing'' of the lie usually happens with real information.

Sorry this is the best I could explain what I meant.

Nope your post didn't make me post that at all! Not at all! Nope, I had read that statement way earlier in this case and I have seen it said in other subforums on this website.

It's cool! As I'm learning here in my new "home" in the Pacific---no worries man, Aloha and Maholo

 

[krowdkat]

They cite 8:45, which is the incorrect Lobby footage time. He left at 8:56. Given that error, I would suggest everyone take that source with a huge grain of salt. Additionally, the 8:25 paid for late days has also been shown to be untrue.

Hey, Wings, I asked you earlier, but this thread moves so quickly you must have missed it. I trust you more than the media reports. You seem to have a great eye for attention to detail.

How do you know which video surveillance camera at the TAC was 11 minutes incorrect? Lobby vs. camera outside of room 309. TIA

 

[Kat]

WOW!!! If Joran DID strike her severe enough to disorient/confuse her in the first couple of blows...WHY did he KEEP beating her...until she died???
It sounds like...IMO...he "disabled" her from screaming..while he beat her to death......for looking at his lap top???

IMO...he was ANGRY and became VIOLENT with her...because she was going to leave/deny him money/...and that was the reason he had her ...come to his room....FOR HER MONEY.....THAT NOW MAKES SENSE TO ME...

all in my own opinion....What a horrible death she must have went thru..

Just IMHO about the part of your post I bolded.

JMHO but he did it because:

1. He could
2. He wanted to
3. Some other unnamed pathological reason we don't know about

Dangerous man there IMHO.

 

[one_girl_rev]

In 6/7/10-Nancy Grace transcripts, Nancy kept going on and on about the scrapes on the body drawing of SFR. After reading WS posts discussing her broken neck and how it might have happened and the mention of him stomping her neck, these scratches came to mind. She was found face down on the floor in the hotel room. He is 6' 5". If she were face down on the floor, with him standing above her, he could very well have put his foot on the back of her neck which could have caused carpet burns on her chin from pressure being applied to her neck from behind as he forced her chin into the floor with his foot. Just a thought to consider of how it might have played out...

That poor young, woman. The more this story unfolds, the worse it gets. :sheesh: