POI: Michael Pak
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Was not the AD the man who broke SG's jaw that required a steel plate to repair? The steel plate helped in identifying her remains.
Obviously AD's moral compass is skewed considerably compared to that of normal people.
Now regarding the CPH conspiracy, who would benefit most if everybody's attention is focused on CPH?
Could it be possible that CPH was and is a genuine 'Good Samaritan' and he did try to assist SG, then turned her over to her driver MP like the rumors state?
AD probably knows what really happened, would he 'roll-over' on MP if he knew MP had something to do with SG's death?
Is it possible MP has pulled off the perfect crime? No witnesses, no forensic evidence, plausible alibi.
Only risk to MP is that CPH states under oath in court he turned a live SG over to MP. If CPH says that, he could be found guilty of medical malpractice.
Officially CPH has denied treating or even meeting SG, if that is correct MP will be pleased.
MOO
LINative13
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Speaking of which. MGs lawsuit says that CPH turned her over to MP. Shouldn't that shift the focus towards MP? Or atleast sue MP as well. I don't know how you could have one without the other.
If you notiiced, MP did not appear on any documentary about this case until he was told by police he passed a polygraph test. Suppose he really failed. The police hands would be tied if CPH was not willing to tell the police he saw SG and she left with him, if in fact that was true. Mari just wants the truth. If MP was responsible for her death she would want him in jail and she probably would forget about a civil case.
OnTheCase27
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You contradict yourself in your statement. You say he pulled off the perfect crime but you imply AD wouldn't roll over on MP. How can you have no witness but have AD be a witness to MP unloading SG's belongings?
Which is it?
Did MP pull off the perfect crime or did AD witness the disposal of SG's belongings and is so tight with MP that he never implicated him?
Good point, On the Case, but let us be careful with semantics;
MP has pulled off the perfect crime if AD knows nothing. I have no idea of what AD knows or does not know. However, if AD does know something, it might be as a co-conspirator or accessory after the fact and would not likely roll-over on MP.
Per your last sentence, you can have no witnesses if the only people who saw the crime are the perpetrators. If AD somehow participated in the crime, he is not a witness, unless he confesses.
I hope that makes sense.
MOO
LINative13
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OnTheCase27
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But he was not with them so he didn't commit the crime. Why if you didn't kill someone would you be ok with discarding their items? And don't say I'm using semantics when you stated "AD probably knows what really happened".
I know almost nothing about AD, other than what I have read in the media and this forum. That information is as summarized as follows.
1) AD broke SG's jaw.
2) AD returned to Oak Beach with MP
3) MP likely gave an explanation to AD for the trip their to Oak Beach
I have no proof or evidence or even any hunch as if AD is criminally involved in SG's death and/or the possible the cover-up of that crime.
What I am saying is, if MP's actions lead to SG's death, it might possible that AD has some awareness of this. On the other hand AD may have no knowledge or awareness of what happened that night.
IF AD was SG'd boyfriend in the traditional romantic-emotional sense, then I would expect AD would want answers and explanations.
MOO
Mountain_Kat
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Even if he was her "boyfriend" in the non-traditional sense of the word, I would expect he would want answers. Of course, it's entirely possible that Pak wasn't able to supply many answers.
JMO
I have been doing some calculations based on the map posted in post # 607.
I would assume that because of the difficult terrain in the marsh, the maximun foot speed that SG would have been able to maintain was about 1.5mph or about 135 feet per minute.
Applying a scale to the map it looks about 1800 feet from Anchor Way, south of BB's (where SG was last seen) to her final resting place.
Asuming she walked carefully, in a straight line, did not stop for any appreciable time I caculate it would taken her about 13 minutes to reach her final resting spot. (1800 feet divided by 135feet/min.)
In all likelyhood she would have been in the marsh longer, a couple minutes to remove her clothes, a couple minutes if she fell, a couple more minutes to rest and catch her breath and maybe SG walked indirectly to increase the distance.
In all likelyhood, if SG enterd the marsh on foot and walked around in it until she finally stopped and expired of natural causes, the time in the marsh would have been a minimum of 13 minutes and possibly 20 minutes.
Yet nobody saw her. Understand when it was earlier and darker, and SG was running down the roadways of Oak Beach, several people saw her. MP, GC and BB. But about 30 minutes later when more people are up, the visibility is better, MP is looking for her, LE has arrived in Oak Beach, nobody can see this woman wandering in the marsh. Could it be she never was in the marsh wandering around?
I do not believe she was ever wandering around in the marsh, I do not believe she ever entered the marsh by her own choice.
MOO
I would assume that because of the difficult terrain in the marsh, the maximun foot speed that SG would have been able to maintain was about 1.5mph or about 135 feet per minute.
Applying a scale to the map it looks about 1800 feet from Anchor Way, south of BB's (where SG was last seen) to her final resting place.
Asuming she walked carefully, in a straight line, did not stop for any appreciable time I caculate it would taken her about 13 minutes to reach her final resting spot. (1800 feet divided by 135feet/min.)
In all likelyhood she would have been in the marsh longer, a couple minutes to remove her clothes, a couple minutes if she fell, a couple more minutes to rest and catch her breath and maybe SG walked indirectly to increase the distance.
In all likelyhood, if SG enterd the marsh on foot and walked around in it until she finally stopped and expired of natural causes, the time in the marsh would have been a minimum of 13 minutes and possibly 20 minutes.
Yet nobody saw her. Understand when it was earlier and darker, and SG was running down the roadways of Oak Beach, several people saw her. MP, GC and BB. But about 30 minutes later when more people are up, the visibility is better, MP is looking for her, LE has arrived in Oak Beach, nobody can see this woman wandering in the marsh. Could it be she never was in the marsh wandering around?
I do not believe she was ever wandering around in the marsh, I do not believe she ever entered the marsh by her own choice.
MOO
Samantha Spade
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And I still dont believe there wasnt a tip.
Please ignore the nose.
Please ignore the nose.
Mountain_Kat
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Easier said than done, I'm afraid. :floorlaugh:
Theforeigner
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I agree and here is partly why:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...were+found+is+impossible+"&cd=2&hl=da&ct=clnk
(not sure if the link works it is a catched link, du to that the newsreport is removed)
Police: Remains found at Oak Beach likely Shannan Gilbert's
(12/13/11) OAK BEACH Suffolk County Police Commissioner Richard Dormer announced today that investigators believe they have located the remains of missing New Jersey woman Shannan Gilbert.
Dormer says the remains were found this morning in Oak Beach about a quarter of a mile northeast of where her purse, shoes, lip gloss and jeans were located last week.
Investigators theorize that Gilbert ran through the marsh and headed back toward the lights on Ocean Parkway.
Dormer says homicide squad members located the remains while on an amphibious machine in the thick brush. The remains were located on the surface.
Investigators say the area where the remains were found is impossible for anyone to navigate through.
The remains are being examined by the medical examiner's office for identification and a cause of death
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Long-Island-confirmed-missing-prostitute.html
December 2011
Suffolk County Police Commissioner Richard Dormer said: 'We went in with the idea we were going in one last time to see if we could find anything and we did.
'This is very tough brambled area, difficult to traverse, you can't walk through that area and this is why it has taken us so long to find.'
He said the location of the skeleton suggests that Gilbert may have been trying to flee across the wetland to a causeway.
He suggested that she had become hopelessly entangled in the brush, which he called a 'tough, desolate, tangled mess'.
He said: 'The terrain would have made it impossible. Our people who were in there over the last few days had to cut through that brush and bramble area, before she was located.'
Officers had to use heavy, earth-moving equipment to excavate the site.
And here is a link to a thread from back when Shannan Gilbert's remains were found.
I shared my thoughts on this issue in posts #663 and #671:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7435759&highlight=marsh#post7435759
Yes, we were told that no one could walk through (traverse) the tangled and brambled brush. Yet we are asked to believe that a frightened, 1/2 naked women, was some sort of super human able to forge, over a 1/4 mile, her petite body through the impassible mess.
If you are in a marsh visibility is very low. She would have been knee deep to waist deep in water, plus there would be weed and brush at various places obscuring view. You do not need to go very far in to be completely invisible to any one around, and also to lose your bearings. Having walked through a tidal marsh (albeit in a raised path) periodically for about 6 years on my way to work, her getting lost in there does not surprise me in the slightest.
As for anyone seeing her, remember that there are not that many people wandering about in a place like that, particularly at that time of day.
It is not impossible, it is just difficult. And because it is difficult, they used heavy machines to do the search. Keep in mind that it must have been passable enough for someone to have found the items she initially dropped in the first place, since that is what got the actual search started. So, in spite of how the media words it, it is not impossible.
She might have died quite some time after first entering, because once in she would have essentially become lost.
Theres a video on youtube( it might be hard to find) of GC saying 17 cars showed up when the search for SG began. He also made a reference towards a tip. Maybe LE showed up like gangbusters.
I think it was more than that distance. That was the diatance from where her belongings were found
We hear about people getting lost in the mountains or the woods during the winter months. Search teams head out to try and find them. They talk about temps dropping at night and hyperthermia. They start to lose hope and then they are found alive. It was the month of May in NY. She did not die from the elements.
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