POI: Michael Pak

[Justiceforever]

I read some of the "drifters"book online.....surely somebody with all the supposed info that he had,as well as blacking out on the beach should be checked out or followed up on?

Great idea...who's gonna start a new drifter thread?

 

[Peter Brendt]

I read some of the "drifters"book online.....surely somebody with all the supposed info that he had,as well as blacking out on the beach should be checked out or followed up on?

Surely should, but I doubt, LE places too much effort in it. And then, there is the time discrepancy. The original information, there was a drifter in JB's house appears to me as if came from neighbors. Now, if this drifter was already out there since three months, who did those neighbors see? The next drifter?
That brings me to the idea, JB has two kinds of neighbors. One who tell what they saw or believed to see and one who follow another star, to say it cautious.

 

[jillybean51]

The author of the book was the drifter that was already gone 3 months?He said he had smelled something dead in the basement...we're any forensic tests ever conducted on the basement floor etc?Just new here and not quite up to snuff yet on this case..

 

[deedee21]

That comes from the field notes blog ( link )

Thanks for posting this link.

 

[Theforeigner]

Peter, be nice and please do not get angry with me.

This timing issue is so critical, and the only point we disagree on is timing

However, once more and to get this finally correct: I believe MP left through that gate before GC arrived. But he hadn't SG in his SUV because she was still later seen by BB

As you, I see the time of BB's 911 call the pivot point. I do not know what time it was for sure. Can anybody enlighten me?

If MP snatched SG on Anchor Way, this would explain how SG's purse or jacket ended up there if it actually did, has that been confirmed? (SG's last communication to the world, I am leaving my purse/jacket so you know I was taken against my will?)

Let us deconstruct the time it would take to immobilize a person, and then drive to the gate, then out of Oak Beach

1) MP catches up to SG on Anchor Way, DD is calling 911; Clock begins ticking

Does MP know martial arts, maybe some choke holds? He was security guy.

"Technical strangles such as Rear naked choke (hadaka-jime) or triangle choke (sankaku-jime) requires much less physical strength and can be executed by a smaller person on a larger assailant."
and
"As in all cases of strangulation, the rapidity of death can be affected by the susceptibility to carotid sinus stimulation. Carotid sinus reflex death is sometimes considered a mechanism of death in cases of strangulation, but it remains highly disputed. The reported time from application to unconsciousness varies from 7–14 seconds if effectively applied to one minute in other cases, with death occurring minutes after unconsciousness.
****Jones, Richard. Asphyxia, Strangulation. www.forensicmed.co.uk. URL last accessed February 26, 2006.


2) If MP abducted SG into his car and subdued her, it would be one minute, but let us triple that time, and say it took three minutes, after BB calls 911.

3) Now it is about a quarter mile, to the gate house from the end of Anchor Way. Averaging a slow 20mph (1759 feet per minute), that would take about a minute. So MP would have arrived at the gate, we would be four minutes cumulatively after BB called 911.

4) The gate has to lift and MP has to drive out, let us allow one minute to raise the gate and one minute to drive off. Using realistic time allowances MP could have gone six minutes after BB placed her 911 call.

5) We know that LE arrived at 6:07AM. How long was GC at the gate?

6) It boils down to just two questions,

What time did BB’s 911 call start and did GC get to the gate house within six minutes of that time?

Peter I agree with you 100% if GC got to the gate house within 6 minutes of BB placing the 911 call. I just do not believe he did.

MOO

Here is a quote from a December 15, 2010 newsreport including info that may help you out:

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2010/12/boyfriend_and_the_driver_of_sh.html

Boyfriend and the driver of Shannon Maria Gilbert recount hours just before Jersey City woman went missing

By Charles Hack/The Jersey Journal
on December 15, 2010 at 9:56 PM

Quote:

The New York driver, who requested his name not be used, said he dropped off Gilbert to the home of a client in Oak Beach at about 2 a.m. on May 1. Gilbert's price: $250 an hour, the driver said.

He said he spent three hours in his SUV outside the gated community, playing poker over the Internet and sleeping, when Gilbert's client phoned him at about 5 a.m., saying Gilbert was refusing to leave the house.

The driver said he drove back to the client's house and found Gilbert, who was clothed, in the living room on the phone with a 911 operator, saying that a man was after her.

"I said 'Shannon, Get a grip. Let's go,' and she said, 'You guys are trying to kill me.' So I said, 'OK, I am leaving.' But then she said, 'Don't go.'"

Gilbert eventually ran from the house, the driver said. The driver said he ran after Gilbert, who is bipolar and has a history of cocaine abuse, but then lost track.

He said drove around the gated community and outside the complex -- texting and calling her furiously on his cell phone -- before leaving the area 6 a.m. and believing that Gilbert would somehow make her way back to Jersey City.

Suffolk police today refused to release the audio or transcripts of the 911 call and provide any information about their response to the call.

Gilbert's live-in boyfriend at the time, Alex Diaz, 28, of Jersey City, said he last saw her on April 30.
"I was waiting and waiting (for Gilbert to come home)," Diaz said today. "After two days I thought she was not coming back."

Thinking that Gilbert had left him, Diaz, who now lives with his father on Duncan Avenue, said he called Gilbert's sister to see if she had returned home to her parents' home in Ellensville, N.Y.

Diaz said he also reached out to the driver, which is when the driver learned that Gilbert had never returned home.

On May 3, the boyfriend and the driver returned to Oak Beach in search of Gilbert and checked local beaches and area hospitals, according to the driver.

The driver said they tried to file a missing person report in Suffolk County, but police told them it had to be filed in Jersey City, Gilbert's hometown.



Concerning the he Barbara Brennan 911 call:

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/cops-remains-likely-those-of-shannan-gilbert-1.3385742

Cops: Remains likely those of Shannan Gilbert
Originally published: December 13, 2011

The last reported sighting of Gilbert was closer to the inlet near the home of another neighbor, Barbara Brennan, who called police at 5:22 a.m. Police came within 10 minutes of the call, but could not find her, Varrone said.


SO...:

4:51 a.m.: Shannan Gilbert calls 911 (according to statemens by MP, SG call 911 while still inside JB's house), the call last 23 minnutes

5:14 a.m.: Gilbert 911 call ends

?:?? a.m : Shanna Gilbert banging on Collettis door etc

?:?? a.m : Gustav Colletti call 911, and it has been stated police arrived 45 minutes later

5:22 a.m.: Barbara Brennan called 911 (NOTE!!! In my SG timeline thread I have listed Gustav Colletti's 911 call as been made 5:22am and that is probably an error, I have probably confused Barbara Brenna's 911 call with GC's 911 call, SORRY!!!)

NOTE!!!. only 8 minnutes pass between SG's 911 call ending and Barabara Brennan calling 911

5:32 a.m.: Police arrive, this was stated by Suffolk Chief of Detectives Dominick Varrone in December 13, 2011 newsday.com newsreport

On another note:
It has been stated by other LISK researchers that intial reports have said that police arrived somewhat between 5:55am and 6:05 AM , and due to that Coletti have stated that police arrived 45 minutes after his 911 call, then his 911 call was probaly made somewhat between 5:10am and 5:20am

Here is the report that stated that the police arrived "45 minutes later" after Colletti called 911:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

Published: Sunday, June 12, 2011
Quote:

After calling 911 that morning, Coletti said he went to the gatehouse, which is about a 30-second walk from his home, and waited until the police arrived. They didn’t arrive until about 45 minutes later, sometime before 6 a.m., according to neighbors and family.

WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW:
what time EXACTLEY did Gustav Colletti call 911

Does anyone have that 100% CORRECT information avaible???

 

[Just K]

That is the key! Because it is still possible that after running toward the Inlet she backtracked and was actually at GC's door after passing BB's.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

So wait...Coletti says police arrived 45 minutes after he called 911? And the police arrived shortly before 6 am? Wouldn't that mean that he called them around 5:15 am? Or is my math whacky?

How long would it take to run from Coletti's house to Brennan's house? Anyone know? (Maybe we can talk LIN into taking a test run for us. LOL!)

 

[Theforeigner]

So wait...Coletti says police arrived 45 minutes after he called 911? And the police arrived shortly before 6 am? Wouldn't that mean that he called them around 5:15 am? Or is my math whacky?

How long would it take to run from Coletti's house to Brennan's house? Anyone know? (Maybe we can talk LIN into taking a test run for us. LOL!)

No you are not "whacky" MountainKat:

Due to what I posted:

Coletti have probaly made his 911 call, somewhat between:
5:10am and 5:20am

And concerning your question: " How long would it take to run from Coletti's house to Brennan's house?"

GC: xx The Fairway, Babylon, NY 11702

BB: xx The Bayou , Oak Beach, NY, 11702

Distance in miles and minutes by foot according to Google maps:
0,2 mil, 4 minutter

But running would of course be less than 4 minutes.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

No you are not "whacky" MountainKat:

Due to what I posted:

Coletti have probaly made his 911 call, somewhat between:
5:10am and 5:20am

And concerning your question: " How long would it take to run from Coletti's house to Brennan's house?"

GC: xx The Fairway, Babylon, NY 11702

BB: xx The Bayou , Oak Beach, NY, 11702

Distance in miles and minutes by foot according to Google maps:
0,2 mil, 4 minutter

But running would of course be less than 4 minutes.

And that would put Shannan at BB's at just about the right time for BB's 911 call. So I don't see why we can't all agree that Shannan ran from Brewer's, ran to Coletti's, and then made her way down Anchor Way (where her jacket was found) before disappearing into thin air, or running into the marsh...take your pick.

I personally don't believe MP ever drove down Anchor Way. None of the neighbors down there ever reported seeing his SUV, did they?

 

[Justiceforever]

And that would put Shannan at BB's at just about the right time for BB's 911 call. So I don't see why we can't all agree that Shannan ran from Brewer's, ran to Coletti's, and then made her way down Anchor Way (where her jacket was found) before disappearing into thin air, or running into the marsh...take your pick.

I personally don't believe MP ever drove down Anchor Way. None of the neighbors down there ever reported seeing his SUV, did they?

Has her jacket being found on Anchor Way ever been reported in MSM?

It was reported in FNs blog but...it's a blog.

A good one...but still...it's NOT a reliable source.

Can someone find anything that confirms that her jacket was found on Anchor Way, besides rumors?

Please?

 

[fred&edna]

And that would put Shannan at BB's at just about the right time for BB's 911 call. So I don't see why we can't all agree that Shannan ran from Brewer's, ran to Coletti's, and then made her way down Anchor Way (where her jacket was found) before disappearing into thin air, or running into the marsh...take your pick.

I personally don't believe MP ever drove down Anchor Way. None of the neighbors down there ever reported seeing his SUV, did they?

I don't know of any reports stating he was seen on Anchor Way. I feel like a little kid here because I want to say... but but but... MP was reported to have been seen following her. If she went down Anchor Way I assume that means he followed her down Anchor Way. (However, I concede that it makes no sense for him to have been the perp and stuck around town for the many months that followed)

 

[Samantha Spade]

Why are some of us so sure JB et al weren't out there trying to find her too?
Rumor has it, he was. but just chalk that up to rumor. But I certainly wouldnt take HIS word for it.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Has her jacket being found on Anchor Way ever been reported in MSM?

It was reported in FNs blog but...it's a blog.

A good one...but still...it's NOT a reliable source.

Can someone find anything that confirms that her jacket was found on Anchor Way, besides rumors?

Please?

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

The last known trace of Gilbert was a 911 call from a home at the end of Anchor Way, according to the neighbor briefed on the investigation. The neighbor said Gilbert’s sweater — or perhaps it was the jacket Diaz saw her wearing when she left — was found along that road.

Brewer tells a different story, however.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-20078763.html?pageNum=5&tag=contentMain;contentBody

Shannan's jacket, which Joe Brewer says sat in his driveway for days, may have been lost.

 

[Vivalor]

You get me a little bit scratching my head here. Okay, so we have no link, the purse was found at Anchor Way, fine. But lets assume, it was found there. What we know is, that SG was seen by GC and later by BB and that the time between those two sightings indicates, SG was for some minutes crisscrossing in the OB area. Fine, this is a problem for anybody arguing, she was clear, sober and reasonable at the time, but not my problem. So, if she was running around in Oak Beach in a state of drug induced paranoia, maybe even delusional (which is not unknown in connection with drug mixes), then why shouldn't some of her stuff be found in Oak Beach? If, and note, I said "IF", the purse was actually found at Anchor Way, the fact it was found THERE is less significant (we knew already, she was running around in the area), but the fact THAT it was found. We all know, women keep close eyes on their purses. Trained behavior since late childhood in most cases. So if a girl loses her purse, she normally notices it fast and picks it up again. SG, in case the purse was actually at Anchor Way, didn't pick it up. She didn't stop to pick it up. That's an interesting indicator for her mindset at the time.
How you come from that purse to a big dark conspiracy theory of which JB maybe didn't even know (the party was in his house, he was there), remains a mystery to me. Care to elaborate, maybe to speculate, what SG may could have seen there that made her suddenly fearing for her life?

The phone calls between her and MP before she called 911 and started to freak out. Maybe he said something. Maybe some one had texted her something and he later (if he did have anything to do with it) erased the text.
I say that she was scared of MP and only him (maybe) because she didn't run to him. I as a woman can say this much if someone wanted to kill me or if someone was chasing me I wouldn't think twice about leaving my purse behind and if I dropped it I wouldn't even look back. I would how ever run right to my drive. The driver you would think would be a safe place...If he was a friend as well as a driver then I would look at him as back up if need be. But she didn't run to him. And when she seen his head lights coming she ran and hide. I feel like she was scared of him for some reason.
I say maybe something was done to scare her of MP and not JB because she didn't want to leave his house and from what I read (if true) JB had to chase/scare her out of the house.
I am not really sure what your talking about when it comes to the purse I wasn't really referring to that. I actually haven't read throw all the post yet, still working on it. I just kind of randomly responded to what I agreed with. Sorry if I was a bit confusing I am new here and still trying to learn the ropes.

Also, a little off topic but was going to add in at some point anyways that I was reading up on drugs and asked a few users what kind of drugs they thought would make her act like that. They all said meth. They all agreed with each other and said that crack or coke wouldn't do that but meth would. Not sure how importation that even is. Also been reading a lot on people saying she could have been drugged. Guess my big question is why would you drug a call girl who is there to have sex and willing to do drugs?

 

[scandi]

The phone calls between her and MP before she called 911 and started to freak out. Maybe he said something. Maybe some one had texted her something and he later (if he did have anything to do with it) erased the text.
I say that she was scared of MP and only him (maybe) because she didn't run to him. I as a woman can say this much if someone wanted to kill me or if someone was chasing me I wouldn't think twice about leaving my purse behind and if I dropped it I wouldn't even look back. I would how ever run right to my drive. The driver you would think would be a safe place...If he was a friend as well as a driver then I would look at him as back up if need be. But she didn't run to him. And when she seen his head lights coming she ran and hide. I feel like she was scared of him for some reason.
I say maybe something was done to scare her of MP and not JB because she didn't want to leave his house and from what I read (if true) JB had to chase/scare her out of the house.
I am not really sure what your talking about when it comes to the purse I wasn't really referring to that. I actually haven't read throw all the post yet, still working on it. I just kind of randomly responded to what I agreed with. Sorry if I was a bit confusing I am new here and still trying to learn the ropes.

Also, a little off topic but was going to add in at some point anyways that I was reading up on drugs and asked a few users what kind of drugs they thought would make her act like that. They all said meth. They all agreed with each other and said that crack or coke wouldn't do that but meth would. Not sure how importation that even is. Also been reading a lot on people saying she could have been drugged. Guess my big question is why would you drug a call girl who is there to have sex and willing to do drugs?

Hi Vivalor and welcome to WS. :websleuther:

 

[Vivalor]

Hi Vivalor and welcome to WS. :websleuther:

Well thank you I have been reading a lot on here but just started to post. Some very interesting stuff!!! Also very confusing because it seems there is a lot of different story's out there about the night SG went missing.
Can anyone please share a link with me about "the party" because from everything I have read and documentary I have watched have said nothing about a party or about a drifter. A link about a drifter would be nice also.
Everything I have read on my own so far has stated that MP sat in his car for three hours sleeping/playing online poker. Got a call to go inside and then got tired of it and went back to his car. That is when JB chased/scared SG out of his house and she feel down the stars and that would have been around the time the 911 call ended. Also have read a lot about the falling down the stars being heard on the 911 call (none of us will prob never know the truth about that). But any in sight or links would be helpful for me to understand more. Thanks

 

[ps149]

Well thank you I have been reading a lot on here but just started to post. Some very interesting stuff!!! Also very confusing because it seems there is a lot of different story's out there about the night SG went missing.
Can anyone please share a link with me about "the party" because from everything I have read and documentary I have watched have said nothing about a party or about a drifter. A link about a drifter would be nice also.
Everything I have read on my own so far has stated that MP sat in his car for three hours sleeping/playing online poker. Got a call to go inside and then got tired of it and went back to his car. That is when JB chased/scared SG out of his house and she feel down the stars and that would have been around the time the 911 call ended. Also have read a lot about the falling down the stars being heard on the 911 call (none of us will prob never know the truth about that). But any in sight or links would be helpful for me to understand more. Thanks

Welcome.

Where did you read a lot about SG falling down stairs being heard on the 911 call???

 

[Vivalor]

Welcome.

Where did you read a lot about SG falling down stairs being heard on the 911 call???

A lot of the things I have found well googleing about the case. I will try and find them and get the links up here for you soon.

 

[deedee21]

Welcome.

Where did you read a lot about SG falling down stairs being heard on the 911 call???

I do remember hearing or reading that SG fell down the steps. I dont remember where though. Her earing was found not far from the base of his steps.

 

[deedee21]

Vivalor, Which documentary did you see? Theres a few on youtube.