Police say parents are not answering vital questions #2

[Karmaa]

my bolding

I don't remember this, the parents turned to the FBI to help find their baby? Where does that come from? Also where does it come from that these people ( I assume you mean DB and JI) are continuing to answer questions for LE but from their living room?

It came from the lawyers. First Cyndy Short, then JP - I think JT too. It has been said many times, and it has never been refuted by LE. So, if you don't believe lawyers you may not believe it. :dunno:

I believe it, It would be stupid for the lawyers to lie about it, and there is no reason to.

 

[Sabot]

I disagree with you though, LE stated not to long ago that they needed to know who was in and out of the house that evening, and DB isn't answering. Obviously LE still has questions that they CAN (MOO) answer.

But they have been giving answers to specific questions. Just not at the Police Station.

 

[deoneta]

That is how I saw it. Debbie didn't specifically remember doing something that she normally did automatically. But since it might have been important, in case the baby was stolen before she went to bed, she told the truth. And what a pile of suspicion that got her into.
And I swear to God that she wouldn't have been believed if she had stated that she did remember. Someone would have said that this wasn't possible as people's memories fail them in moments of crisis.
Damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.

And heaven help me if I am ever expected to remember exactly what I did on the evening before.

Maybe I'm showing a little bit of an OCD side, but I do remember everything I did last night, even though I confess to drinking three beers. One week ago, I couldn't recount the evening in detail, but last night, yes. For me, the problems come in with the differing times. At first, it seemed that DB remembered seeing her baby at 10:30, then 7:30, then unsure after 6:40. Her memory has selective holes. She remembers drinking 5-10 glasses of wine, retiring at 10:30, inviting the boys and the kitten to bed, at one point, she remembers being on the computer although that seems to have dropped out of the timeline, but doesn't remember checking on her sick baby. In fact none of her recollections after 6:40 involve Lisa. All MOO

 

[Karmaa]

Respectfully snipped by me to save space...

She did state remembering checking on the boys though, so how can she remember checking on the boys, but not her sick 10 month old?

We don't really have any choice about what mundane things are remembered and which are lost. Normally we DO tend to remember unusual situations, even minor ones. The brain says "ohhh that's different - I'll stash that away." Maybe one of the boys said something funny that she remembered. Maybe one was wearing his new pajamas. Maybe they were bickering. Or maybe it's just plain random.

If she poked open the door and saw Lisa sleeping and all was well, it might have stuck in her mind, or maybe not. If Lisa was NOT in the crib Debbie would have absolutely remembered that moment. So the fact that she didn't freak out at 10:30 means either she checked and everything was fine, or she didn't check. And she honestly doesn't know which one it is.

JMO of course.

 

[Whisperer]

Having read hundreds of files on children who have been beaten, killed, raped, etc.., It is a fact that almost everyone of the perps had consumed alcohol prior to the incident.

 

[JeannaT]

Maybe I'm showing a little bit of an OCD side, but I do remember everything I did last night, even though I confess to drinking three beers. One week ago, I couldn't recount the evening in detail, but last night, yes. For me, the problems come in with the differing times. At first, it seemed that DB remembered seeing her baby at 10:30, then 7:30, then unsure after 6:40. Her memory has selective holes. She remembers drinking 5-10 glasses of wine, retiring at 10:30, inviting the boys and the kitten to bed, at one point, she remembers being on the computer although that seems to have dropped out of the timeline, but doesn't remember checking on her sick baby. In fact none of her recollections after 6:40 involve Lisa. All MOO

Have you ever misplaced something that's important to you, and the more you think about it, the more you "create" memories of where you put it? You're SURE you had the item with you in the car, SURE you brought it in and then put it . . . where? Oh yes I remember, in the drawer . . no it's not there. And then later it turns out it was never in the car at all you left it back at the store.

Memory can be fluid especially if you're really trying to remember something very important. In my experience.

 

[Amster]

But keep one thing in mind. The last time that the parents were interrogated, they (say they were) were lured to the station by being told that LE had some important new lead on the case, or something like that. The get to the station and find out that was not true, and they were then separated and grilled.

I am pretty sure that I would stop trusting those people at that point. I would start thinking that they were NOT trying to find my baby, but were trying to frame me. And I would never set foot in that place again. I would then do what these parents have apparently done, and turn to the FBI to help find my baby. Like these people have done, I would continue answering questions from local LE, but in MY living room, with my lawyer at my side.

Lured to the station?? Let me guess....JT said this? :floorlaugh:

I really have never heard that story. Who said all of that? The parents or their atty. brought in the FBI?? :waitasec:

 

[Whisperer]

Debbie said something early on, when she was first talking about all this, and being afraid she was going to be arrested. I am paraphrasing, but she said something like "the reason I don't want to be locked up is because then everyone will stop looking for Lisa." That just rung true to me. I mean - there are a whole LOT of reasons to not want to be locked up, but that was the one she gave. And, she is not wrong. Once a viable suspect is arrested, LE usually stops looking. They just don't have the resources to keep investigating once a case is "solved."

Horse hash on her. How many parents have been locked up w/o a confession in the first few weeks of a child missing when no body has been found?

DB is histrionic. She tries to gain sympathy through the media with her "Poor Me" talk. She knows darn well what LE could do and what they couldn't do. She had a Law Professor within a few days who was brought in by JI's sister(who is a paralegal) setting up all the links for her and her options.

This is insane...LE have exhausted over 900 tips so far. They have nothing regarding a stranger taking the baby.

 

[In da Middle]

Having read hundreds of files on children who have been beaten, killed, raped, etc.., It is a fact that almost everyone of the perps had consumed alcohol prior to the incident.

But the mom is not the ONLY person that consumed alcohol that night. I am sure there are many around that night that did.

 

[Karmaa]

Maybe I'm showing a little bit of an OCD side, but I do remember everything I did last night, even though I confess to drinking three beers. One week ago, I couldn't recount the evening in detail, but last night, yes. For me, the problems come in with the differing times. At first, it seemed that DB remembered seeing her baby at 10:30, then 7:30, then unsure after 6:40. Her memory has selective holes. She remembers drinking 5-10 glasses of wine, retiring at 10:30, inviting the boys and the kitten to bed, at one point, she remembers being on the computer although that seems to have dropped out of the timeline, but doesn't remember checking on her sick baby. In fact none of her recollections after 6:40 involve Lisa. All MOO

Congrats on your great recall! Most people don't have that ability, but of course, some (such as yourself) do. I can't remember if I took my pill most mornings so I have to keep a chart and check it off. I take it and an hour later I have forgotten not only the ACT of taking it, but whether I actually did. And I have a pretty good memory in general.

 

[Sabot]

Have you ever misplaced something that's important to you, and the more you think about it, the more you "create" memories of where you put it? You're SURE you had the item with you in the car, SURE you brought it in and then put it . . . where? Oh yes I remember, in the drawer . . no it's not there. And then later it turns out it was never in the car at all you left it back at the store.

Memory can be fluid especially if you're really trying to remember something very important. In my experience.

I have been trying to remember where I hid my jewelry for five years now. And I was certain that I knew what I had done with it only days after I hid it.
I suppose that I could have been plonked at the time, but it's too long ago to remember.
However, I do still distinctly remember picking up the bag before I hid it.

And Yes, I have tried St. Anthony and St. Jude. Many times.

 

[Karmaa]

Lured to the station?? Let me guess....JT said this? :floorlaugh:

I really have never heard that story. Who said all of that? The parents or their atty. brought in the FBI?? :waitasec:

I don't understand what is so funny or confusing. I said it. There were no quotes around it.

And no - the family probably didn't bring in the FBI. Usually LE calls the FBI. But the family has been cooperating with the FBI according to the undisputed reports from the lawyers.

 

[JeannaT]

Having read hundreds of files on children who have been beaten, killed, raped, etc.., It is a fact that almost everyone of the perps had consumed alcohol prior to the incident.

This study says nearly half involve alcohol and drugs.

Do you have a link that backs up your estimation it is a FACT that ALMOST EVERYONE of the perps had consumed alcohol prior to the incident?

TIA

http://www.happinessonline.org/LoveAndHelpChildren/p6.htm

 

[Whisperer]

But the mom is not the ONLY person that consumed alcohol that night. I am sure there are many around that night that did.

I'm sure of it. Are you suggesting DB's company/friends may have killed/abducted her baby?

 

[Karmaa]

I have been trying to remember where I hid my jewelry for five years now. And I was certain that I knew what I had done with it only days after I hid it.
I suppose that I could have been plonked at the time, but it's too long ago to remember.
However, I do still distinctly remember picking up the bag before I hid it.

And Yes, I have tried St. Anthony and St. Jude. Many times.

OMG! I did the same thing. I think! I don't remember seeing the bag with all of my good jewelry in it (well, everything that's not in the safe deposit box - thank God for that!) since I got back from a trip to Canada. I know I had to have stuck it somewhere... in one of the suitcases or a bag, but darned if I know where. And that was like 3 years ago.

Luckily my hubby is a sweetie and has restocked my good jewelry supply, but he is always teasing me about it. I know it'll turn up some day. I hope. lol.

 

[Whisperer]

This study says nearly half involve alcohol and drugs.

Do you have a link that backs up your estimation it is a FACT that ALMOST EVERYONE of the perps had consumed alcohol prior to the incident?

TIA

http://www.happinessonline.org/LoveAndHelpChildren/p6.htm

Personal experience....having read thousands of criminal files

 

[JeannaT]

Personal experience....having read thousands of criminal files

So no link? These things are pretty carefully documented statistics.

What we believe to be trends and correlations, don't always turn out to be true.

 

[deoneta]

Have you ever misplaced something that's important to you, and the more you think about it, the more you "create" memories of where you put it? You're SURE you had the item with you in the car, SURE you brought it in and then put it . . . where? Oh yes I remember, in the drawer . . no it's not there. And then later it turns out it was never in the car at all you left it back at the store.

Memory can be fluid especially if you're really trying to remember something very important. In my experience.

I agree that memory is a very individual thing. My daughter and I have always been elephants although as I age, certain words and numbers can be elusive although not events. My husband, on the other hand constantly is looking for his keys, forgetting his lunch, leaving the last bag of groceries at the store while at the same time remembering what engine came with every car manufactured since the fifties. I have no way of knowing how much DB drank or how impaired she was, but she does say she was drinking. I can understand how she would begin to doubt her own memory, especially under so much stress. I just find it unsettling that none of her recollections that we know about after the 6:40 point include any mention of Lisa. That is certainly not proof of any wrong doing, but it does, for me, raise suspicion.

 

[Tuffy]

If it was a preplanned murder, which I don't think it was, I can see the need for a motive. If it was accidental, as in she didn't plot ahead of time to murder her child, a motive wouldn't really be necessary.

Just as when a parent beats their child, thus causing their death, they didn't really have a motive beforehand. ( not saying that's what happened in Lisa's case)

I agree, a motive isn't necessary. As with so many child murders, there is no motive that we can understand. I don't understand why Casey Anthony killed her daughter, among many of the cases I've followed. I've just learned to accept that there will be these kinds of crimes that we don't understand why they are committed.

 

[JeannaT]

I agree that memory is a very individual thing. My daughter and I have always been elephants although as I age, certain words and numbers can be elusive although not events. My husband, on the other hand constantly is looking for his keys, forgetting his lunch, leaving the last bag of groceries at the store while at the same time remembering what engine came with every car manufactured since the fifties. I have no way of knowing how much DB drank or how impaired she was, but she does say she was drinking. I can understand how she would begin to doubt her own memory, especially under so much stress. I just find it unsettling that none of her recollections that we know about after the 6:40 point include any mention of Lisa. That is certainly not proof of any wrong doing, but it does, for me, raise suspicion.

Mm hmm.

For me, things that are very routine (checking on a child before going to bed, starting the dishwasher, letting the dog out, getting the mail, etc.) I can easily not have a clear memory of. They're routine for me, but sometimes I don't do them and sometimes I do them but have no memory of it.

Especially if it is very very important that I try to remember. That's when my memory fuzzes.

For her, if he thinks she may have checked on Lisa but she's not sure, best to say 6:40 was the last time she's SURE - it's best to go with that time so it doesn't rule out possibilities of what happened to Lisa during the 6:40 - 10:30 time frame. Even if she's almost NEARLY sure she remembers checking on her, best to widen up the time frame to allow for the chance she's remembering wrong.