Police say parents are not answering vital questions #2

[Sparklin]

A couple of thoughts: wanting more information upon which to base an opinion as to what happened to Lisa != being a Deb supporter, or a fan of baby killing, or anything else other than wanting to have more information before coming to a conclusion.

I do not like the word 'supporter' being used in this context. I might 'support' an athletic team or a charity, but to me, a child disappearance is an entirely different matter and shouldn't be spoken of in the same terms. I do not 'support' DB, or excuse her for (according to her) possibly drinking to the point of blacking out while being responsible for three small children. I also do not support condemning people solely on the basis of what statistics say, or whether they do or do not appear to be doing what I myself might do or not do in a given circumstance. If statistics were right 100% of the time, we could just go ahead and lock up all parents of missing children for life without bothering with an investigation or trial.

I just want more information before I am comfortable declaring that DB killed her baby and tossed her body in the river and vilifying her on what is supposed to be a victim-friendly forum. If that makes me a bad person in the eyes of some, so be it.

YAY YOU!! I 100% agree. I have nothing invested in D/J being innocent or guilty. I don't have any personal association with anyone involved in this case. The only one I care about is Lisa. That being said, I will not condemn the parents of a missing child, who if innocent, are suffering enough without the public cry for their heads on a platter - and if they are guilty, will pay the price eventually...and I will jump on that 'band wagon' when someone proves it to me.

We can all speculate until the cows come home. And I truly see both sides. But if the police don't have enough info to make an arrest, I certainly am not going to accuse or judge them with my meager information.

 

[Karmaa]

What I recall the lawyer saying this past weekend is that HE is in touch with the FBI regularly...JMO

He did say that. But that doesn't mean that the family isn't also talking to the FBI. :waitasec:

 

[MissJames]

It's very true that sometimes parents choose one child to abuse. Based on everything we know, that's not Lisa. In her home, Deborah has a stepson who is apparently not the victim of abuse, and two bio children. I think by all accounts, and all evidence, both parents adored Lisa.

Additionally, she was an exceptionally happy, healthy looking baby.

What accounts? I recall mixed messages by her in-laws . What do we really know?

I concede that if I had to vote in court based on what I know ,I'd have to vote NG. I am suspicious . I think DB's involved,but I haven't seen anything that proves DB is a good mom or an abusive mom.

 

[Sparklin]

For those who think this very police department is infallible, check this out and watch the video. I think these people would tend to disagree. Keep in mind this is the very same police department from the very same patrol division.

http://fox4kc.com/2011/11/22/neighbors-angry-at-police-for-lack-of-concern/

Yikes!! That reminds me of a few years ago. A woman brought her daughter into the police dept and the daughter explained that she had murdered her daughter and buried her in '.... park'. The officer told her she had to go to '....division' that it wasn't their jurisdiction, and let her walk right out of the station. :waitasec:

 

[NotSoSherlock]

The father of Lisa made the claim their life is getting back to normal? Strange comment.

Okay. All of us here are wannabe sleuths. So let's test our skills...

Think, people.

Use your considerable knowledge about what is going on in this family's lives. Apply that knowledge and you'll know why their attorney made that statement. You already have the information to answer this.

Think.

Okay. Don't peek.

Figure this out yourself. Test your analytical skills.

Here's a hint: The family recently moved back into their home.

Answer:

The family is facing a custody battle for the 8-year old son. How would an answer like "Oh, Jeremy's a complete basket case" go over?

 

[Sparklin]

I'm pretty sure I recall that when the Shane info came out, that it was said he was there an hour and a half, from 7:30 to 9:00, per Jim Spellman's reporting. Has this since been refuted or revised or am I just misremembering?

hmmm I'll try to find the info, but I think it was 1 1/2 hours all together, which included the hour with SB from 10:30 to 11:30. Let me try to find something!

 

[Sparklin]

We don't know much about her life,good or bad, other than she's still married to someone else.
People who commit child abuse often pick just one child. We heard that recently stated by a TH "expert " on HLN while discussing the recent case in Washington. Mom left her car with her 4 year old, supposedly leaving her 2 year old in the car because she ran out of gas (but there was gas in car per LE).
The kids have different dads and that could be part of the issue. Lisa might have been a difficult baby or maybe mom didn't want another baby and felt trapped in her relationship with JI.
We just don't know much .No one is talking.

I think that part can be ruled out. It was said that she was a very good baby, rarely cried, had no issue with strangers...

 

[cluciano63]

He did say that. But that doesn't mean that the family isn't also talking to the FBI. :waitasec:

I can't help thinking the lawyers would be broadcasting this every minute, if true...(parents speaking with FBI frequently and recently)...JMO

 

[Claudette]

I don't think that Debbie has a drink problem. I drink wine two or three times a week, and I don't think that I have a problem. I probably sleep more soundly, although I can't say that I do it for that reason.
She sounds like a social drinker to me. But I bet it will be a very long time before she drinks again.

My opinion has been that she took advantage of her husband being gone the whole night and, as she stated herself, had adult time with her neighbor friend. The kids were nearby and presumably safe, and she had the first opportunity in a long time to have as many drinks as she wanted since there was no driving involved. Of course I'm assuming this, but this is my take on the situation.

 

[RANCH]

I can't help thinking the lawyers would be broadcasting this every minute, if true...(parents speaking with FBI frequently and recently)...JMO

I don't think there has been anything recent from the parents or LE. JMO.

 

[Claudette]

This reasoning would only make sense if no drunk person ever killed a child for the first time. JMO.

There are plenty of people who only ever killed one of their children.

In fact that woman in Arizona (I think)nwas named a suspect in her daughter's disappearance today or yesterday, she has 3 other children all older than the daughter. All boys too if I remember correctly. Just a specific example.

 

[epiphany]

I'm pretty sure I recall that when the Shane info came out, that it was said he was there an hour and a half, from 7:30 to 9:00, per Jim Spellman's reporting. Has this since been refuted or revised or am I just misremembering?

Shane was there for about an hour and a half which does not include the hour he later spent with DB's neighbor from about 10:30-11:30 PM.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I didn't take it exactly the same way. I thought that she was trying to be excruciatingly honest, and could not say absolutely that she couldn't have possibly blacked out. (After all, how would you remember if you blacked out? That's the whole problem with blacking out - you do things that you later have no memory of.) I also took it the same way about her checking on the baby at 10:30. I "read" her answer as being that she may not remember doing it specifically, but knows that she normally does. If she did, then surely she would have seen IF Lisa was missing at that time. But since she doesn't specifically remember looking in, it's possible she didn't.

That was just my own impression when I first saw it, and honestly, I was really confused when people started picking that to pieces. It just seemed so understandable, lol. I know NOW why everyone didn't see it that way but it still seems like maybe half of us interpreted it that way and the other half saw it completely differently.





By the way It's not just alcohol that can make people "forget" doing things, especially things that we do out of habit. Most people would not be able to say exactly what they did the night before. They would remember much of it, but like EXACTLY what time did you start cooking dinner? Do you remember putting a specific paper towel in the trash? Do you remember brushing your teeth? You know you did it because you always do, but do you recall the actual act of it? I have said goodnight to my daughter before, and then been surprised to find that she went to bed. Even when my hubby reminds me that I said goodnight to her, I can't really remember it. I believe that is normal, so I never thought it was particularly weird that DB didn't remember the actual act of looking at her baby. The brain can't remember every single detail, and once something leaves the working memory, if it doesn't go into LTM, it's gone. And no amount of thinking will get it back. IF she is innocent, and IF she is telling the truth, she would have had no reason for remembering that act (looking at Lisa), if there was nothing wrong at that time.

ITA with not remembering minute details when there really isn't a reason TO remember them. I often think, as I am reading these threads, "OMG, what if something awful happened to my child and I couldn't remember little details because I was just doin' my day?!"

I know I have had conversations with my husband or daughter whilst thinking about 27 other things and if called upon to recount these conversations, could not.

All this to say, it seems IMHO, that an innocent person, with no portent of trouble to come, is VERY likely to not remember small details as they recount their moves near the time of the crime or alleged crime.

A guilty person, however, ALWAYS seems to have lots of detailed minutia to offer up.

Again, JMO, but I often put myself in the place of the suspect and wonder just how innocent I would seem to LE or the public while in fact actually BEING innocent.

 

[NotSoSherlock]

Having read hundreds of files on children who have been beaten, killed, raped, etc.., It is a fact that almost everyone of the perps had consumed alcohol prior to the incident.

Let's not forget that JT has been known to drink as well. I've been wondering what he was doing during the period of time between when the sprinklers were turned on and then off.

He may have been drinking as well that day.

All JMO.

 

[yllek]

The Shane time line is confusing. I looked it up to refresh my memory.

Jim Spellman with Vinnie Politan on 11/8 (sorry, no transcript for it, pulled from the WS MSM thread).

Shane came over around 7:30.
Shane left at 9:00.
Came back at 10:30 and hung outside with Samantha. Debbi already gone inside.

Note: It was originally reported that he was there from 7 to 7:30 drinking and smoking, and then came back about an hour and a half later to hang with Samantha - Debbi was already inside. That was later updated to the above time line by Spellman on HLN (and he clarified that Shane states that he was not drinking, nor were the ladies, though he could tell they had been drinking earlier).

JMO...

 

[JeannaT]

You are talking husband/wife and I wasn't. I was talking children.

This conversation has been led astray. I was giving my opinion and my kge. regarding child crimes. Secondly there always the psychotic/serial killer/ sociopath who needs no stimulant to do anything. I am saying, in my observation, that alcohol was involved in almost every single case of child rape, murder, abduction. It is always open and I have learned not to expect all people to believe me. So be it.

It is a fact that most children who have been abused/killed meet harm from their own parents.

<modsnip>

M A N Y children meet harm by their stepparents, boyfriends of the mother, friends of the couple who are on drugs, acquaintances who gain access to the children.

By this stat, 60% of children who are murdered, are murdered by someone known to the child.

With all these other people, how can you come up with the stat that MOST children who are murdered, come to this end by their own parents? It's very often a boyfriend, or a stepparent.



http://www.keepyourchildsafe.org/abduction-murder.asp

 

[Cazzie]

I think that part can be ruled out. It was said that she was a very good baby, rarely cried, had no issue with strangers...

Said by whom? Consider the source...

I only recall that that was said by DB, on Day 1, maybe 2...

She even said "she'll go to anybody"...or maybe she said past tense "she'd" which would not be a good sign...IDR.

Just sayin'.

 

[Sparklin]

Said by whom? Consider the source...

I only recall that that was said by DB, on Day 1, maybe 2...

She even said "she'll go to anybody"...or maybe she said past tense "she'd" which would not be a good sign...IDR.

Just sayin'.

Also said by the grand parents in their interview. What better sources than parents/grandparents???

 

[DeAnn]

Also said by the grand parents in their interview. What better sources than parents/grandparents???

I think the Festival Foods clerk also said Lisa's a cute, sweet baby.

And you know there is an unwritten rule that kids have tantrums in grocery stores so if the Festival Foods clerk thought she was a sweetheart....then she's golden!!

 

[Amster]

They were 'asked' (I agree with lured) to go to the station because there was news about Lisa - when they got there...no news, just more interrogation and accusation.

Link please.