Police say parents are not answering vital questions #3

[RANCH]

I actually believe that bringing up Casey Anthony was a good point, although not for the same reason. True, the DA didn't have enough evidence to prove that she killed Caylee, yet I would bet that the VAST majority who are familiar with this case think that she killed her child. And, to me there is no doubt. Just as in this case, although there is not a fraction of the evidence out there for the public to know. The legal system is not a perfect system and jurors did not know a lot of things that they have said after the fact that if they knew now, their decisions might have been different.

The same things that made me believe that Casey was guilty make me believe that Deb is guilty. And, sadly for the babies in both cases, their lives were so nonchalantly taken away. It looks like Lisa will have no justice either.

BBM
Could you give us some examples?

 

[highflyer]

Well,my father lived with us when he passed away .It was after 10pm on a Friday night .It took awhile for the Hospice nurse to come and declare his death,notify the coroner and then the funeral home was notified,so he was in our home for hours as we sat with him. I didn't see any flies.

Had close to the same experience. Stayed at my MIL's home when she did hospice and she died in my arms. Took some time to notify her children so they could come and the hospice nurse was awakened and had to drive in and then the funeral home. It was spring and nary a fly happened by.

 

[madge]

QUOTE=cityslick;7455607]Lets go over the excuses and separate fact from opinion:

DB says she was told she failed, but yet there has been no confirmation of this by LE and it is also a fact that LE sometimes will tell someone they 'lied' to try to get more info from them when in fact they didn't fail.

Dog hit - unknown as to how many hits, what the dog actually hit on, etc. Unknown at this time if the dog hit really was from a dead body or something else since we haven't seen any evidence that goes with the dog hit (such as what it hit, was there a trail, etc)

Refusal to talk to LE - This has more to do with them not wanting to be subjected to separate interviews rather than not talking to LE at all. In the beginning, they did subject themselves to individual interviews. JI was told he was not needed to take an LDT.



Jersey - only linked at this point due to the fact he dated MW at one time and just happened to have a criminal history. He may not have anything to do with this.

JI - Was at work all that night, which means the evidence as we know it does not support he had anything to do with it, LE believes this too which is why they didn't have him take an LDT. He may know of it after the fact (if DB is responsible).

Defense attorneys - It is the right of every citizen in this country to have legal representation and such representation should not be an indicator of guilt or innocence, as stated by our country's laws

BBM: Going on tv - Going on tv only appeases the public perception, it does not and will not bring BL home any faster (if BL is still alive)
Here is where I disagree!!!! This is holiday season, BL face needs to be OUT there. Many people are travelling and perhaps there might be a NEW leads.

Anyway, there are all the 'excuses'. None of which constitutes as evidence that DB harmed her child. But I continue to wait and see what more information comes out to form a good opinion.[/QUOTE]

 

[highflyer]

I actually believe that bringing up Casey Anthony was a good point, although not for the same reason. True, the DA didn't have enough evidence to prove that she killed Caylee, yet I would bet that the VAST majority who are familiar with this case think that she killed her child. And, to me there is no doubt. Just as in this case, although there is not a fraction of the evidence out there for the public to know. The legal system is not a perfect system and jurors did not know a lot of things that they have said after the fact that if they knew now, their decisions might have been different.

The same things that made me believe that Casey was guilty make me believe that Deb is guilty. And, sadly for the babies in both cases, their lives were so nonchalantly taken away. It looks like Lisa will have no justice either.

What are the same things?

 

[norest4thewicked]

BBM
Could you give us some examples?

Examples of why I personally believe that both women were/are guilty, why their lives were taken away so nonchalantly, or why I believe there will be no justice for either child?

 

[norest4thewicked]

What are the same things?

* Mothers who love to "party"...whether it's by dancing at a club drinking or sitting on a front stoop drinking.

* Mothers who seem to be able to lie very well, without batting an eye. We saw this firsthand with Casey. We heard about DB's lies from her own account of the changing timeline of when she last saw Lisa.

* Mothers who both say that their child was "kidnapped."

* Mothers who appear flippant about the loss of their child. I will never forget the interview with Megyn Kelly only a day or two after Lisa went missing where DB was defending her "rights" to "adult time." I think that Casey's attitude has been well-documented.

And, before anyone attacks my opinions, remember that we are all entitled to our own and these are mine. Everyone views things differently and while I might think DB was flippant in her interview, someone else might think she was being remorseful. I can't tell anyone else how they are supposed to feel about a case and I hope that no one here thinks that they can tell me how to feel.

 

[hambirg]

Lets go over the excuses and separate fact from opinion:

DB says she was told she failed, but yet there has been no confirmation of this by LE and it is also a fact that LE sometimes will tell someone they 'lied' to try to get more info from them when in fact they didn't fail. I'm still confused as to where the "failed miserably" term came from. If somebody can provide where that came from, because we have all heard it, then I will re-evaluate how I feel about the LDT.

Dog hit - unknown as to how many hits, what the dog actually hit on, etc. Unknown at this time if the dog hit really was from a dead body or something else since we haven't seen any evidence that goes with the dog hit (such as what it hit, was there a trail, etc) We simply don't know, but we do know what items were taken. There are some logical conclusions there.

Refusal to talk to LE - This has more to do with them not wanting to be subjected to separate interviews rather than not talking to LE at all. In the beginning, they did subject themselves to individual interviews. JI was told he was not needed to take an LDT. This is the one that bothers me the most. I can not think of one logical reason why an innocent parent would not agree to separate questioning. . .not ONE! If I am innocent of any wrong doing and my intentions are to answer LE's questions truthfully, to the best of my ability, in order to help their investigation find my missing baby, I don't need to be in the same room with my SO! People will say they already did separate interviews, but that was early on in the investigation. LE has said they have vital questions they need answered. . .NOW. Again, there is no logical reason an innocent parent would not sit down with LE with their attorney and answer those questions truthfully, no matter if their SO wasn't in the room, especially if it meant possibly finding their missing baby. None, nada, zilch!

Jersey - only linked at this point due to the fact he dated MW at one time and just happened to have a criminal history. He may not have anything to do with this. Agreed.

JI - Was at work all that night, which means the evidence as we know it does not support he had anything to do with it, LE believes this too which is why they didn't have him take an LDT. He may know of it after the fact (if DB is responsible). Agreed, unless there was some huge piece of info that LE knows now and we don't.

Defense attorneys - It is the right of every citizen in this country to have legal representation and such representation should not be an indicator of guilt or innocence, as stated by our country's laws Agreed. But I will say when your child is missing I would think the priority would be finding that child and not a defense. I don't fault a parent for having legal representation, but if it was me, I would make sure the focus stays on finding my child.

Going on tv - Going on tv only appeases the public perception, it does not and will not bring BL home any faster (if BL is still alive). I disagree. LE needs tips from the public to bring home a missing child. It's why we have things like Amber Alerts to get the message out to the public because maybe somebody knows or has seen something.

Anyway, there are all the 'excuses'. None of which constitutes as evidence that DB harmed her child. But I continue to wait and see what more information comes out to form a good opinion. I think part of the problem is that if a child is killed at home by a parent, say shaken, how much hard evidence is there going to be? If LE can't find the body, or find it in time. . .there won't be much. . .no strange fingerprints, no strange DNA, no blood evidence. Sometimes it's about what is NOT there.

My comments in red. All MOO.

 

[RANCH]

* Mothers who love to "party"...whether it's by dancing at a club drinking or sitting on a front stoop drinking.

* Mothers who seem to be able to lie very well, without batting an eye. We saw this firsthand with Casey. We heard about DB's lies from her own account of the changing timeline of when she last saw Lisa.

* Mothers who both say that their child was "kidnapped."

* Mothers who appear flippant about the loss of their child. I will never forget the interview with Megyn Kelly only a day or two after Lisa went missing where DB was defending her "rights" to "adult time." I think that Casey's attitude has been well-documented.

And, before anyone attacks my opinions, remember that we are all entitled to our own and these are mine. Everyone views things differently and while I might think DB was flippant in her interview, someone else might think she was being remorseful. I can't tell anyone else how they are supposed to feel about a case and I hope that no one here thinks that they can tell me how to feel.

The only one of your points that I agree 100% with is that they claimed that their child was kidnapped.

I'm not sure about lying very well. Casey lied a lot but very well? Debbie maybe lied about when she last saw Lisa. Is that considered as lying well?

I'm not sure how not reporting that your child is missing for over a month and going out to night clubs, is comparable to drinking with a neighbor out front of your house before your child disappears?

I hope you don't consider this post an attack on your opinion. It's just myself stating my opinion.

 

[askfornina]

My comments in red. All MOO.

hambirg, the source of the "failed miserably" quote is MK on fox. that is the only place i've seen that wording.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/07/police-captain-baby-lisa-irwin’s-parents-still-not-cooperating/

Sources are saying that the mother of missing Missouri baby Lisa Irwin took a lie detector test and “failed miserably.” While Kansas City Police Captain Steve Young won’t confirm that, he does confirm that as of last night Irwin’s parents are not cooperating with police.

 

[RANCH]

hambirg, the source of the "failed miserably" quote is MK on fox. that is the only place i've seen that wording.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/07/police-captain-baby-lisa-irwin’s-parents-still-not-cooperating/

It may be that the term "failed miserably" was used in the story to add flavor. It plays much better than "showed deception to one question". JMO.

 

[norest4thewicked]

The only one of your points that I agree 100% with is that they claimed that their child was kidnapped.

I'm not sure about lying very well. Casey lied a lot but very well? Debbie maybe lied about when she last saw Lisa. Is that considered as lying well?

Well, as Jeff Ashton said, Casey is the best liar he has ever seen. I'm sure he's seen more than I have. And, Deb is apparently a good enough liar to have some people (even here on WS) to believe her story. So, yes, I consider it lying well.

I'm not sure how not reporting that your child is missing for over a month and going out to night clubs, is comparable to drinking with a neighbor out front of your house before your child disappears?

Some might consider what DB did to be even worse than Casey. When Casey did it, she didn't have a child to be responsible for because Caylee was already gone. Deb, on the other hand, had two young boys in the house that she didn't tend to while she was out on the steps drinking. And then, according to her, she was so drunk that she passed out. Both mothers, in my opinion, are deplorable.

I hope you don't consider this post an attack on your opinion. It's just myself stating my opinion.

As is mine.

BBM

 

[RANCH]

As is mine.

BBM

There's no way I'm getting into a debate on what a good liar vs a poor liar means. I don't believe that Debbie is innocent of wrong doing in this case, while I'm not sure she is guilty either.

I was just curious about the similarity's between the two cases. I just don't see a lot that's the same.

You don't like Casey Anthony and Deborah Bradley. That's fair enough.

 

[hambirg]

As is mine.

BBM

Let's not forget that CA didn't have a father to answer to. With DB, she does have a father, JI, in this case. She has a lot more to hide, and a LOT more to lose.

 

[hambirg]

hambirg, the source of the "failed miserably" quote is MK on fox. that is the only place i've seen that wording.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/07/police-captain-baby-lisa-irwin’s-parents-still-not-cooperating/

Thank you. . ."Sources." I do remember the quote being quoted as coming from a woman with LE. I wish I remembered the name. Steve Young almost immediately countered it and I understand why they would. I think it was an off the cuff comment. . .and probably a bit of a slip. I imagine somebody got chewed out for that. But I do believe it. If it comes out later that it's not true, I will eat crow. The article I remember seeing it in is long gone now. . .but I do remember it.

It may be that the term "failed miserably" was used in the story to add flavor. It plays much better than "showed deception to one question". JMO.

Nope, it says "sources" and it's quoted. I don't believe that it came from a reporter. See above.

 

[RANCH]

Thank you. . ."Sources." I do remember the quote being quoted as coming from a woman with LE. I wish I remembered the name. Steve Young almost immediately countered it and I understand why they would. I think it was an off the cuff comment. . .and probably a bit of a slip. I imagine somebody got chewed out for that. But I do believe it. If it comes out later that it's not true, I will eat crow. The article I remember seeing it in is long gone now. . .but I do remember it.



Nope, it says "sources" and it's quoted. I don't believe that it came from a reporter. See above.

Who do you believe that the source is? If it was a LE source do you think it may be possible that the leak was for a reason? I'm thinking of a good reason, what's yours, if you have one?

 

[Donjeta]

I don't know about the quote but the woman in LE who gave some statements is called Stacey Graves IIRC.

 

[RANCH]

I don't know about the quote but the woman in LE who gave some statements is called Stacey Graves IIRC.

Which quote are you referring to?

 

[Donjeta]

The one discussed above about failing miserably.

 

[hambirg]

Who do you believe that the source is? If it was a LE source do you think it may be possible that the leak was for a reason? I'm thinking of a good reason, what's yours, if you have one?

No, I believe what I believe because I remember reading it. It was a woman, she was with LE and it was a question and answer type of exchange. She was quoted by name. I think this woman, whoever she is, was being frank. BUT she wasn't supposed to comment on that, because we had an almost immediate statement come out from Steve Young conteracting what she said and making everything very vague again.

Sorry, to answer your question, I don't think it was a leak for a reason. I don't believe that LE is in the business of framing innocent parents in a missing baby case just to close the case. I think it was a moment of candor that was quickly retracted.

 

[RANCH]

No, I believe what I believe because I remember reading it. It was a woman, she was with LE and it was a question and answer type of exchange. She was quoted by name. I think this woman, whoever she is, was being frank. BUT she wasn't supposed to comment on that, because we had an almost immediate statement come out from Steve Young conteracting what she said and making everything very vague again.

Sorry, to answer your question, I don't think it was a leak for a reason. I don't believe that LE is in the business of framing innocent parents in a missing baby case just to close the case. I think it was a moment of candor that was quickly retracted.

BBM
I agree that it's doubtful that LE was trying to frame Debbie with that quote. The main reason being that it wouldn't work. No, I think that there is a more believable reason.