Police say parents are not answering vital questions #3

[Whisperer]

I'd like to believe that murderers are not as smart as they lead us to believe. I don't think they can hide DNA or evidence.

However, I do question some of the investigative tactics used by LE in missing children cases and wonder if there is something lacking in their ability to solve crimes. This is not to criticize at all but I look at Ayla Reynolds case. They allegedly found splattered blood in the basement and what does LE do? They bring the dad in and show him the luminol results. Guess what? Now they lawyered up. Nobody will say anything anymore. No more cooperation. Ayla is still missing and perhaps will only be found by luck or years from now or never. Why do they do this? Why not just keep all evidence close to their vest? Continue to investigate however long it takes until they have enough to arrest, charge and convict. Trying to get a confession doesn't seem to work.

All the missing children cases I'm currently following, LE used the same tactics. It's just not working. but yet they keep doing it over and over.

I don't get it.

:twocents:

LE does everything they can to elicit a confession before they lawyer up. Offering them coffee and soft conversation doesn't get them to break. Hard questioning often does. LE wants the baby back and they need to get to the victim ASAP and try to save a life. They are under pressure from all sides. The public is steaming mad, wanting them to solve it and their hands are tied because they can't punch the living daylights out of the perp.

I had one (after conviction) who raped a three month old baby. The closer I got to him, the more I wanted to strangle him. I was not able to separate the crime from the criminal ( I usually had no problem with this prior) but this case and the perp were inches from my face. I will tell you that this person was very smart and not at all what you would picture. An infant...this was too much for my mind to handle. I could not fathom such a thing and truly thought this should be a DP case and it wasn't. He is due for parole in the next year. He has done this to two other children under the age of two. Before people judge LE, they ought to try to think of what officers and other staff go through and must deal with. I believe the public doesn't care to think about it...and they certainly couldn't fathom something like this. It happens.

It was at this time, that I knew it was the end of working with criminals. The crimes were too much to deal with. Imagine how LE felt when they picked up this ? It would take an act of God to not beat the crap out of him or kill him.

It appears that LE is not in a good position on any of these cases. Attorneys will have their badges if they make one wrong move. If they touch them (and trust me you want to kill some of them) their careers are gone.

Due to lack of ability in some cases, to crack them, profiling has got to be the next step. That is if you can get any information from people that know them. Sometimes it works. In the recent case of Caylee, I am sure everyone who profiled her knew the baby was close to home. The problem was the area where she was had been cleared or was under water.

I have seen times where the body will be recovered in areas previously searched. We now have to focus on their profile and what you think they did and where most likely they will place the body. With KCPO, they have exhausted it. They have searched everywhere. If the perps go outside their neighborhood and dispose in another city, it is difficult. Perps that are not so smart are a challange. The smart ones are easier to figure out sometimes..a little more logic going on to play with. I have found with mothers that murder, profilng will generally give you a good idea where she put the body.

I shared an office with a professional who killed her child. No surprise where she hid the baby. She claimed kidnapping. It didn't work. Within two weeks she was arrested; she killed herself in her cell. She was very intelligent..like I stated, the smart ones are easier to solve.

I don't know what else LE can do since the laws are so strict regarding interrogation. The addicts are difficult to crack. I say give them booze or drugs and you may get some answers..NOT allowed to do that either. I just have to shake my head and resort to praying they get lucky. I feel for LE because I know how much they want to get these babies back...much more than most realize. It is hard to turn this off when you leave work. It takes its toll.

 

[juliebellebean]

The Dr. Phil thread is closed so I wasn't sure where to put this. Carla Baron was interviewed on December 8 for a Dr. Phil special w/ John Edward, Char Margolis called "Beyond Talk." (has yet to air). She says while she was there she was asked her opinion of Baby Lisa Irwin, Michelle Parker and Natalie Wood. She stated that she thought Lisa was still alive and being well cared for. Debbie and Jeremy now decide to do an interview with Dr. Phil. The fact that they have footage of Carla saying she thinks Lisa is alive could have been a big draw for them. It will be interested to see if that clip is played or mentioned on Friday's show.

<modsnip>

 

[Whisperer]

I'd like to believe that murderers are not as smart as they lead us to believe. I don't think they can hide DNA or evidence.

However, I do question some of the investigative tactics used by LE in missing children cases and wonder if there is something lacking in their ability to solve crimes. This is not to criticize at all but I look at Ayla Reynolds case. They allegedly found splattered blood in the basement and what does LE do? They bring the dad in and show him the luminol results. Guess what? Now they lawyered up. Nobody will say anything anymore. No more cooperation. Ayla is still missing and perhaps will only be found by luck or years from now or never. Why do they do this? Why not just keep all evidence close to their vest? Continue to investigate however long it takes until they have enough to arrest, charge and convict. Trying to get a confession doesn't seem to work.

All the missing children cases I'm currently following, LE used the same tactics. It's just not working. but yet they keep doing it over and over.

I don't get it.

:twocents:

I understand what you are saying. It has been about six weeks for little Ayla. Her dad gave nothing up the entire time. He was not going to give up anything anyway. They need to crack them in the first week. LE lost nothing with him. Now that he has an attorney, he can talk to him. LE is done with him. After all the evidence is in, they will round up all the likely suspects and charge them with something. It is at that time the attorneys will see the evidence. Let them stew.

They lost nothing by showing him the pictures. He didn't crack. They waited all this time, hoping he would and they pulled out their last stop. Time is up. I'm sure LE got everything out of them they were going to get. Time for LE to move on to the next step.

 

[iluvmua]

I am looking for two things.

I am looking for proof of an abduction.

And I am looking for proof the parents were involved.

I'm not finding proof enough to be swung in either direction right now. But the fact that the parent are not fulfilling every LE request does weigh on the scales ~ and not in favor of the parents.

So far there has been none, plus if this was an abduction, how come no sightings of Lisa? If this child was alive, I would think at least someone would have seen her esp. after these many months.

It's Def. no looking good for DB/JI BUT they can stop this charade if they choose to and for some reason they choose not to.

They could come in for interviews and the LE could rule them in or out and LE could move on to other people, as long as DB/JI don't do that, they are going to be in the sights of LE. JMO.

 

[deoneta]

Does anyone believe a random stranger commited this crime on a night where mom just happened to be drunk and left the door unlocked, and dad was working his one and only overnight stint? Doesn't the attempted call to Megan's phone pretty much keep it all in the neighborhood? That would leave the parents (and possible accessories such as friends or family members) and Jersey and/or his neighborhood associates as the mostly likely suspects. The parents don't want to be interviewed separately because LE might be mean to them, lie to them and accuse them. Of course that shouldn't matter as long as they stick to the truth (maybe JI can't speak unless DB is there to pull the strings). but instead, they choose to have an adversarial relationship with the only people who can help find their baby. Who else is going to find her? Bill Stanton? If the parents are not involved, why aren't they screaming from every rooftop for answers about Jersey and known associates? Where is the righteous anger and indignation that this investigation is at a standstill? Hard to understand unless the status quo is just fine with them. All MOO.

 

[iluvmua]

Does anyone believe a random stranger commited this crime on a night where mom just happened to be drunk and left the door unlocked, and dad was working his one and only overnight stint? Doesn't the attempted call to Megan's phone pretty much keep it all in the neighborhood? That would leave the parents (and possible accessories such as friends or family members) and Jersey and/or his neighborhood associates as the mostly likely suspects. The parents don't want to be interviewed separately because LE might be mean to them, lie to them and accuse them. Of course that shouldn't matter as long as they stick to the truth (maybe JI can't speak unless DB is there to pull the strings). but instead, they choose to have an adversarial relationship with the only people who can help find their baby. Who else is going to find her? Bill Stanton? If the parents are not involved, why aren't they screaming from every rooftop for answers about Jersey and known associates? Where is the righteous anger and indignation that this investigation is at a standstill? Hard to understand unless the status quo is just fine with them. All MOO.

Exactly! makes you wonder doesn't it. Excellent post by the way.

agree with everything you said.

 

[DeAnn]

So far there has been none, plus if this was an abduction, how come no sightings of Lisa? If this child was alive, I would think at least someone would have seen her esp. after these many months.

There have been repeated sightings but none have panned out. One poor area couple has been repeatedly harrassed because their baby girl looks like Lisa. There was an entire thread on it here. It made the front page of the Kansas City Star.

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_s...ing-mistaken-for-missing-girl-lisa-irwin.html

 

[melissasmom]

Everyone is allowed to have opinions. I don't think anyone who is on the fence has an issue per say with those that believe the parents are responsible for doing something to BL. Where we start running into issues is when certain folks start attacking those on the fence for having that opinion, saying things like 'defending DB's rights' or 'siding with defense lawyers', etc. This is one of those places where you shouldn't have to defend what you believe in but sometimes it doesn't feel like that. Especially in this forum.

The other issue is when we see information getting posted that's either a rumor posted as fact or just straight out incorrect based on what we know. All it does is confuse what is known and factual. That's why there is this belief that for some, it's more about pointing the finger at DB than it is about trying to figure out what happened to BL.

Thank you cityslick. This is why I like WS, and lurked for a long time until I joined. Rumors are not allowed here. Facts are to be backed up with links. etc. This is not like Facebook or some other places, where people just get crazy and start spewing out whatever they want. But, yes, sometimes this particluar forum just makes me so sad. I didn't even come in here for a while, it was really frustrating me.

I do see facts being twisted, misrepresented, etc. People are free to have a personal opinon, and if they feel the parents did it in this case, well then they can express that. But those who feel that there is just no evidence can express that also. I have never said anything personal about what my feelings are about DB/JI as far as what kind of people they are. If I knew them, I probably wouldn't like them, just based on the litttle we have ascertained. But just because I may find them repugnant in some ways doesn't mean they committed a crime. I too , think that if my child was missing that I would have my face out there every day. But that is just an opinion, and all I have to base it off is what I THINK I would do.

Lena Lunsford does not seem to be looking for Aliayah. But that is not why I suspect her of something in her child's disappearance. It is because of other things. She drove around for over 2 hrs "looking" for the child. She has THIRTY EIGHT crimes on her rap sheet, and her spouse has a similar number. Her other children have been removed from the home. Unexplained bruises on Aliayah. Ralph is known to be violent, etc. That is why I think she is guilty of something. It all piles up. There just doesn't seem to be much to pile up here in this case. And I can't in good conscience say I KNOW who did this crime.

I completely understand the feeling of wanting to beat the everlasting &#$@ out of parents in some cases where they won't talk. Sky and Jhesseyes come to mind. But this is the US, it is part of the Constitution. If we could just go around roughing up or torturing people because we want information, well then, I would move elsewhere, because where would it stop?

JMO

 

[iluvmua]

There have been repeated sightings but none have panned out. One poor area couple has been repeatedly harrassed because their baby girl looks like Lisa. There was an entire thread on it here. It made the front page of the Kansas City Star.

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_s...ing-mistaken-for-missing-girl-lisa-irwin.html

reminds me of the baby Gabriel case, none of his sightings panned out either.

 

[iluvmua]

IF they are not involved they better have a damn good reason as to why they are behaving the way they are.

of course they may not know how to act. I just do not get them at all. at all

 

[iluvmua]

There have been repeated sightings but none have panned out. One poor area couple has been repeatedly harrassed because their baby girl looks like Lisa. There was an entire thread on it here. It made the front page of the Kansas City Star.

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_s...ing-mistaken-for-missing-girl-lisa-irwin.html

forgot about the sightings. my bad.

 

[iluvmua]

And why isn't their Lawyer(s) telling them to do the right thing and clear their names if in fact they are innocent???? You would think that DB/JI (if they are innocent) would tell him/them "We had nothing to do with this at all" etc. and the Lawyers saying " Talk to LE and clear your name if you had nothing to do with this".

 

[iluvmua]

And if DB/JI are not involved then I will sincerely apologize.

 

[In da Middle]

And why isn't their Lawyer(s) telling them to do the right thing and clear their names if in fact they are innocent???? You would think that DB/JI (if they are innocent) would tell him/them "We had nothing to do with this at all" etc. and the Lawyers saying " Talk to LE and clear your name if you had nothing to do with this".

IMO is that THIS lawyer is not really concerned with them. I have only seen him do what I would only see that benefits him. I really think we need new attorney and different detectives to sit in then just maybe, we would get somewhere. I can dream, can't I?
ETA
I really thought we were getting somewhere when Cyndy Short was taking the reins and JT was out of the country. Sure wish we could go back to that time and them making a different choice on who they kept and let go.

 

[iamnotagolem]

IMO is that THIS lawyer is not really concerned with them. I have only seen him do what I would only see that benefits him. I really think we need new attorney and different detectives to sit in then just maybe, we would get somewhere. I can dream, can't I?
ETA
I really thought we were getting somewhere when Cyndy Short was taking the reins and JT was out of the country. Sure wish we could go back to that time and them making a different choice on who they kept and let go.

THANK YOU! I really think that the attorneys think they are guilty, and are directing their clients based on that.

ETA: I think the attorneys don't really care one way or another whether their clients know anything or not. They are just in it for the publicity.

 

[4Jacy]

SB and her daughter reportedly saw Lisa. Has there been any description of what Lisa was doing, when they saw her, ie., standing in the crib, sleeping in the crib? Anyone read anything on this?

I must have missed this lone, I didn't know SB had seen Lisa, I thought just Amy (?) her daughter saw her. I too would like to know what Lisa was doing.

 

[RANCH]

And why isn't their Lawyer(s) telling them to do the right thing and clear their names if in fact they are innocent???? You would think that DB/JI (if they are innocent) would tell him/them "We had nothing to do with this at all" etc. and the Lawyers saying " Talk to LE and clear your name if you had nothing to do with this".

Do you think that LE would believe DB/JI if they told them "We had nothing to do with this at all." ? I would be surprised if they haven't already said something to that effect at the beginning of this case. What else could they say to LE in order to clear their name?

 

[iluvmua]

Do you think that LE would believe DB/JI if they told them "We had nothing to do with this at all." ? I would be surprised if they haven't already said something to that effect at the beginning of this case. What else could they say to LE in order to clear their name?

Go down and have separate interviews like LE wants them to, is a start.

 

[Meri]

I've been thinking this for a while now. Were I guilty of murdering my baby, I would be ALL OVER the news any chance I got to plead with the public to help find my baby. It would be part of the 'plan' to make people think I had nothing to do with it.

 

[RANCH]

Do you think that LE would believe DB/JI if they told them "We had nothing to do with this at all." ? I would be surprised if they haven't already said something to that effect at the beginning of this case. What else could they say to LE in order to clear their name?[/QUOTE]

Go down and have separate interviews like LE wants them to, is a start.

If they really are innocent and have no idea what happened to Lisa and state that to LE I don't think that would clear them. I believe it will take more than separate interviews to clear them. Unless LE can get one or both to confess. I don't see that happening.