Police say parents are not answering vital questions

[justamommy]

there is a photo on another thread from a news report (i cant remember which thread but i'll go have a look) and the tub etc are in the crib in the background,so it was a recent pic on maybe the 1st or 2nd day of lisa disappearace

I think it had been pointed out that this photo was taken after LE searched the house early on and that maybe those items were placed there to get them out of the way.

 

[EllaMae]

I have had kids & I am in agreement that a 10 month old ,who is fussy & teething & miserable will pull themselves up on the crib railings & pushing up on their tippy toes, their waist over the top bar and catapult over!!! I have seen it happen too many times. Depending on the floor covering in the room (hopefully plush carpets) they will bounce off hopefully on the buttocks & not their head!Either way , a responsible parent will realize that accidents happen,that the child having immediate care ,is the decision to be followed instead of a disasterous cover-up & permanently maimed or dead child. Young children tend to bounce & with immediate medical help will have very little damage or scarring.That's what being a parent means.

A fall out of a crib onto a carpeted floor will not harm a baby seriously. I know this from my experience as a parent, and from a discussion with my pediatrician who raised 6 kids of his own. I just do not believe that's a viable theory.

When abusers claim a child's injuries came from a fall from a crib or a sofa or even a table onto the floor....LE is instantly skeptical, because they know it's highly unlikely that any significant injury will even occur at all, let alone an injury that would be serious or fatal. It just doesn't happen that way.

 

[marge_rita]

there is a photo on another thread from a news report (i cant remember which thread but i'll go have a look) and the tub etc are in the crib in the background,so it was a recent pic on maybe the 1st or 2nd day of lisa disappearace

You're right josie, the reporter was standing in the room. That comfirmed the crib was like that when LE first searched the house.

imo

 

[Rallihanna]

I think LI was put to bed in DB's bed...

 

[EllaMae]

You've been following this much closer than I have and I'm not doubting this is true,but,has LE ever verified this?
I ask because the boys might have been questioned in the parents presence when LE first came to the home,but not knowing what they were looking at,I doubt if it was an in-depth interview.
LE uses special techniques with children so they don't lead the children to an answer. I'm curious to know if the boys have had a complete interview by a special interrogator. I'd also like to know what happened in the nightmare that caused the younger son to sleep with his mom.

In the Elizabeth Smart case...if IIRC....the parents were advised not to further question or talk about the kidnapping to Elizabeth's younger sister who was a witness to the abduction once the initial questioning was done. They were told to let her tell what she knew when she was able to talk, but not to push her for an answer. She was about 9 when her sister was kidnapped. They wisely followed this advice, and the child was eventually able to tell them who took Elizabeth as soon as she could process what happened and overcome her fear.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't know much about that scenario,but I assume if she was that drunk ,she wouldn't be able to cover her tracks well.

Jeremy wasn't drunk, though, was he? Just sayin'. :innocent:

 

[EllaMae]

You're right josie, the reporter was standing in the room. That comfirmed the crib was like that when LE first searched the house.

imo

I don't think you can say that with certainty. We do not know who put those things in Lisa's crib, or when it was done.

 

[EllaMae]

http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...baby-lisa-irwin-s-mother-s-story-inconsistent

--snipped---


Megyn compares the two interviews:

Megyn’s interview with Lisa’s parents Sunday night, October 16:

Megyn: What time did you put Lisa to bed?

Deborah: 6:40.

Megyn: And that’s her normal bedtime?

Deborah: No, it’s usually between 7:30 and 8, but she’d been kind of fussy and, um, I just decided to put her down.

Maybe DB thought Baby Lisa was fussy because she was tired. An overly tired baby will be very fussy, and the best thing to do is to put the baby to bed.

While I do believe DB is guilty of something....I can't completely hammer her over putting a fussy baby to bed because that's not necessarily a bad thing. The baby had a big day on Sunday, and maybe she was just very tired and needed an early night. I have done the same thing when my babies were that young, and they all had an early bedtime also.

 

[MyBelle]

Maybe DB thought Baby Lisa was fussy because she was tired. An overly tired baby will be very fussy, and the best thing to do is to put the baby to bed.

While I do believe DB is guilty of something....I can't completely hammer her over putting a fussy baby to bed because that's not necessarily a bad thing. The baby had a big day on Sunday, and maybe she was just very tired and needed an early night. I have done the same thing when my babies were that young, and they all had an early bedtime also.

Just putting a fussy, sick baby to bed will put them to sleep? That never worked for us, who spent many hours walking, rocking, even putting fussy ones into the car and driving around.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I agree.

But what if the mother was 'blacked out drunk' when she found the baby dead or injured? She could have been making all sorts of brilliant decisions and have no recollection of it.

But I do agree, I no longer think the baby fell out of the crib. I think that baby died in mom's room.

Because of the stuff piled in the baby bed and the infant swing next to the bed in what was a very small room, my guess is that Lisa routinely slept in her parents' bed and that is why JI was surprised to come home and find one of the boys there but no Lisa. I think Lisa did die in her parents' room and was dead for hours before being found by one or both parents.

JMO

 

[Magdalyn]

Drunks that black out and become brilliant? I guess someone could make a movie with that premise.

I was being facetious. :crazy: All she had to do to be brilliant was hand the baby's body to the fella she was partying with and ask him to get rid of it somehwhere.

In a lot of these can't find the body cases, I don't think it always has to do with great planning and the perfect crime. I think some criminals just have luck on their side. (re:Casey Anthony)

 

[norest4thewicked]

I was being facetious. :crazy: All she had to do to be brilliant was hand the baby's body to the fella she was partying with and ask him to get rid of it somehwhere.

In a lot of these can't find the body cases, I don't think it always has to do with great planning and the perfect crime. I think some criminals just have luck on their side. (re:Casey Anthony)

The person that DB was drinking with was a female and next door neighbor. But, I do agree with you that the person who actually disposed of Lisa is most likely a male.

 

[mysteriew]

We keep discussing that the baby had a cold and cough. When my toddlers were teething, they would absolutely get a cold each time. So what I am wondering if perhaps Lisa was also teething too, making her more fussy.

Add the fact that DB put her down almost an hour earlier than her normal bedtime, my thinking is DB wanted to go to bed at 10:30 and Baby Lisa was fussy at that time. I've thought this from day 1. I don't think this was an accident at all but that DB snapped.

Theory only

I've thought along those lines from the beginning also. But considering DB's latest timeline of events that night they had supper, kids watched a movie. She put Lisa in bed at 6:40 pm and sat out front with neighbor drinking. She checked on Lisa shortly after and Lisa was up. She put her back to bed. How do you get a baby to go back to bed under those conditions?

What if Lisa didn't want to go back to bed? It was early still, before Lisa's bedtime. The other kids were up and there would be noise in the house. How do you get a baby to go back to bed under those conditions? (Shaking a baby has happened in a lot of cases. Smothering or drugging could have happened, but drugging would have still taken what 10, 15 or 20 min to take effect.)

It was adult time according to DB. How important was it to DB to get back to adult time?

In the first timeline DB said she checked on Lisa before she went to bed at 10:30. Later she didn't remember if she did that or not. What if she did? And what if she determined that whatever method she used to get Lisa to back to bed had harmed her?

That could be a paralysing moment. Do you call 911, get help for the baby that you knew was dead? Knowing that what you did could/would result in charges against yourself? Or do you hide her body and try to cover it up? Would you maybe pick the baby up and hold her while you were trying to decide? Would you carry her to your bedroom and hold her while you cried? Would you lay her down while you made phone calls? And while you were crying/talking what if your younger child woke, what would you do with the baby?

How long would it take to make a decision on what to do? The main problem I can see is that the rumor of the phone call/text happened at 2:30 am. Would it take 4 hours to ask someone for help? Did she ask for help before that, but they weren't free until then? Or did they decide that time would be best as the neighborhood would be quiet by then?

I can see a lot of possiblilty for this theory also. The neighbor wouldn't necessarily know that anything happened, as DB would not have had to be gone long to quiet the baby.

 

[mysteriew]

Because of the stuff piled in the baby bed and the infant swing next to the bed in what was a very small room, my guess is that Lisa routinely slept in her parents' bed and that is why JI was surprised to come home and find one of the boys there but no Lisa. I think Lisa did die in her parents' room and was dead for hours before being found by one or both parents.

JMO

As you pointed out, it was a small room. Could LE have finished with the bed and set those things up there to go through them? Could family have set those things up there to make more room for the cameraperson, reporter and themselves in the room?

 

[TxLady2]

The height of the mattress bothers me also. I wonder if Lisa slept with mom and dad.
I think it would be unusual for a baby to die from that height ,but I'm no expert.
I still think a mother would call 911 ,not believing her child was really dead or couldn't be saved. And when was mom distraught ,grieving,beside herself ,trembling in shock,because her baby girl was dead?

Unless the baby died from abuse or murder,I don't believe a mother would not try to get help,even if it had been hours and hours.

It works the other way around,IMO.Parents who abuse or kill their children cover it up to make it look like an accident.They don't cover up accidents by making it look like a kidnapping/murder. JMO

I have said before,any mother who could cover up an accident ,never trying to get the baby help,because they were afraid they would be in trouble,could also hurt that baby on purpose.That kind of mother never cared enough about the baby to begin with. MO

Well, I don't know... it's been talked about that Haleigh Cummings's death was an accidental shooting or being hit in the head, and they tried to make it look like a kidnapping after getting rid of her body.
If a parent thought that they wouldn't be believed, they might panic and get someone they knew and trusted to dispose of the body and then claim the child was kidnapped. It's not the normal thing to do, but then these cases are never normal. Just when we think we've heard it all... we hear something else worse.
I agree with your last paragraph to an extent, but people will do strange things when they think they got themselves in a mess they can't get out of. People make choices and those choices are not always about how much they care about their children, it's just poor choices because they don't stop to think how it will affect anyone but themselves. They may love their kids on one level and on another, they make the wrong choice. Like getting drunk... maybe it was not in her plans to drink herself to the point of passing out, but the wine was good, she just went too far. Bad choice. Had nothing to do with whether she loved her children at that moment in time.
Like someone said, she may be immature. Young people don't always think about things like we older ones do.

 

[MyBelle]

As you pointed out, it was a small room. Could LE have finished with the bed and set those things up there to go through them? Could family have set those things up there to make more room for the cameraperson, reporter and themselves in the room?

I see no reason for LE to got through the boxes. One item was a baby bathtub. I assume the stuff was in the bed when LE got there and is one reason why LE was immediately suspicious.

JMO

 

[annalia]

Yes, they wanted their lawyer present, as is their right. LE doesn't want a lawyer present.

I don't see that it means without a lawyer present.

To me it means that the parents want to dictate ahead of time what questions they will and won't answer, and LE wants to be able to ask them all questions that they deem necessary.

JMHO

 

[Karmaa]

Can you provide a link to where it says LE wanted them to not have a lawyer present? I recall them asking for unrestricted which has many definitions but since LE hasn't spoken I wondered if JT said this in an interview somewhere.

The ATTORNEYS said that unrestricted meant "without an attorney". I know a lot of people would not believe defense attorneys if they said the sky was blue, but this was THEIR understanding. So, even if it could, possibly, perhaps mean something else, it's pretty clear that in this case unrestricted means "without a lawyer.) JMO because I don't want to go back and look it up.

 

[Marshmallow]

Have LE said that?

no, it's just a rumor. LE has never stated they want interviews without attys present. People have decided to assume and it took off on the message boards but was never a fact.

 

[JeannaT]

no, it's just a rumor. LE has never stated they want interviews without attys present. People have decided to assume and it took off on the message boards but was never a fact.

No, that's not true. Cyndy Short stated it. And LE at that time acknowledged they had been working with the Irwin attorneys to come to terms with interviewing the Irwins.

It's not a "rumor" when an attorney for the client states it. And it's probably more reliable than statements that LE makes to the press during an active investigation.