Poll: Did Casey Really Keep Caylee in the Trunk Before Caylee Died?

[Zoe Bogart]

I'm not getting all these statements about how difficult it would be to do and how the hot air would kill her etc.

As if the ONLY two options were that KC left her in the car all the time OR not at all.

I think people are over thinking this She left her in the car ONCE and it killed her.

I agree that she probably used chloroform on a regular basis to knock her out. Drugging a kid on a regular basis is dangerous and traceable. Anyone who has ever had to deal with a two year old can tell you about the crying to sleep and the tantrums. KC could just have knocked her out night after night.

People keep saying Caylee would have a fear of cars etc. Well not if she died the first time KC did it?

I think she used to drug her at home when she wanted to hang out with her boyfriends, she'd leave Caylee on the couch knocked out. Seemed pretty simple. No screaming and tantrums just out like a light.


One night KC decides to take it to the next level, see if she can get away with her sleeping through the night in the car. She cracks al the windows, and put Caylee in the trunk then undoes the carseat, folds down the back an just puts the car seat back in the car.

But that night Caylee dies.

BBM

My answer was in response to the poll question, assuming it meant she left the child in the car on a regular basis. As you say, one time could have been the only time because the baby didn't survive. We'll probably never know.

In looking carefully at the poll, I see my answer when it was first created was "Yes", so I must have been thinking it was possible it happened once, the deadly once. On a regular basis in the heat, no way. One time would have done her in or she would have showed signs of serious damage, imo.

There is the possibility she could have left her in the car inside a parking garage away from the hot sun, but even so, it could be awfully warm in a closed car. During the winter it could have been feasible, unless temperature fell to the 30s.

She could have been drugging the child at home, at night, while George and Cindy slept and she went out. She could have also done that in the daytime after George went to work. Casey would leave with Caylee to go to the "nanny's and to work", then return to the house after George left, drug the child (or drug her "at the nanny's" first), go out for a few hours, come back for Caylee before Cindy got home, and both leave again... Again, that sounds like a lot of trouble for lazy Casey for just a few hours of afternoon fun.

We'll never know.

Although, there's still that darn duct tape. Why duct tape a sleeping, chloroformed baby? Over the mouth, maybe. Over nose and mouth? That's something very, very sinister. Just leaving the child in the car is sinister, adding chloroform and duct tape??? :devil:

 

[marlap]

well, Casey was the one driving the car around. And the trunk was full of other things that she herself had placed there. So she had to know the garbage bag with the dead body was in there.

The child was in HER care when she 'went missing.' How do we explain that?
And she was out partying it up. How do we explain that she had no concerns that her child was gone?

Who would have put the child in her trunk? I can't think of anyone. The perfect person for her to try and blames is her father because he had car keys. But SHE was the one with control of the car. And she is the one who abandoned it when it began to smell like death.

Oh, and WELCOME to WS!
:welcome:

Yes! ----welcome to Webslueths hollyzone! :seeya:


I agree katydid! In addition to george having a set of keys, another reason she selected George to be her scapegoat was because telling boyfriends he was abusive was one of her "go to" manipulations of men so they wouldn't feel comfortable asking her to go home, or telling her they needed space.

Okay, take TL--- in his early 20s, living in a very small apartment with other guys, and just very recently hooked up with a girl he met a few weeks before.

Suddenly she has moved in and suddenly is staying there every single night.

It seems very far fetched that he would want her there constantly that early on, especially since he had roomate(s).

But he might not feel comfortable asking her to go home for a night or two or that he needed space if he "thinks" he's sending her to a house with an abusive dad, lots of fighting parents, etc.

ICA manipulated everybody.

 

[cluciano63]

I think maybe Caylee never left the trunk at all after death. I can't see ICA risking that anyone might come home early, etc. I think the day ICA backed into the garage and borrowed the shovel went down like this:

1) ICA knows she needs to move Caylee's body.

2) ICA goes home and backs in the garage (with Caylee in the trunk) and goes into the house to find laundry bag, trash bag, etc. to put Caylee into.

3) ICA goes back to the trunk, opens it, and begins placing Caylee into the bags.

4) Decomposition has made the body wet, there is leaking and tissue stuck on the trunk carpet.

5) ICA borrows the neighbor's shovel to scrape tissue up to put in the bag with Caylee's larger remains.

6) ICA closes the trunk (with Caylee now inside the bags), and takes the shovel to the backyard to wash the remains off of it with a hose. I think these remains rinsed from the shovel into the backyard are what cadaver dogs hit on.

7) ICA returns the shovel and drives around the corner to the "pet cemetery" and leaves Caylee there.

This scenario makes sense to me...except that where the dogs hit seems a long way away from the garage-is there a hose over there?

Also I thought that the ME could not determine a cause of death? If so, how can it be known if the duct tape killed her? (This is a question from a post upthread, not your post.)

 

[Reality Orlando]

I think maybe Caylee never left the trunk at all after death. I can't see ICA risking that anyone might come home early, etc. I think the day ICA backed into the garage and borrowed the shovel went down like this:

1) ICA knows she needs to move Caylee's body.

2) ICA goes home and backs in the garage (with Caylee in the trunk) and goes into the house to find laundry bag, trash bag, etc. to put Caylee into.

3) ICA goes back to the trunk, opens it, and begins placing Caylee into the bags.

4) Decomposition has made the body wet, there is leaking and tissue stuck on the trunk carpet.

5) ICA borrows the neighbor's shovel to scrape tissue up to put in the bag with Caylee's larger remains.

6) ICA closes the trunk (with Caylee now inside the bags), and takes the shovel to the backyard to wash the remains off of it with a hose. I think these remains rinsed from the shovel into the backyard are what cadaver dogs hit on.

7) ICA returns the shovel and drives around the corner to the "pet cemetery" and leaves Caylee there.

Wasn't it brought up early on that the area Caylee was found in was not the pet cemetary nor the area she and Kiomarie used to hang out in? I thought that area was on the other side of the fence behind the school. Just trying to get everything straight in my head.

 

[BigRedCat]

Some great posts! I've been looking for a good forum to discuss this fascinating case and this forum seems to be it!

The issue of the dogs hitting in the backyard throws off my theory a bit. I've maintained up until now that Casey got in a fight with her mom, stormed off with her kid- with nowhere to stay and having no sitter she gives Caylee Zanax (Zanny the Nanny) and leaves her in the car (probably the trunk). She comes back and the kid is dead - the rest that follows is her attempt at a cover up. Her borrowing the shovel to scrape something doesn't make sense to me and if the dogs are hitting on the backyard then we know the body was there before being moved to the trunk or vice versa. I think she may have made an attempt to bury the kid in the backyard and George came home or perhaps realized it was a dumb idea. You would have to be a complete moron to bury a body in your own backyard but then again a lot of serial killers put bodies in their own houses.

I think overdosing on Zanny bars was what killed the child - Chloroform seems a stretch. The Gatoraid bottle that had the syringe in it also contained Testosterone so we would have to assume Casey was able to buy both test & Chloroform which seems very unlikely. If you find who can confirm they sold Casey Zanny bars on a regular basis you would have a crack in the case (probably Tony's roomates) but nothing much has happened with that lead. The injection would not be necessary so I think bottle was just in the area the body was found, it doesn't seem related.

I think the dogs hitting in the backyard actually helps the defense because it means the child may have drowned in the pool and Casey moved the kid to the car and dumped it when she found a spot.

One thing that I think needs to be talked about more is Casey's psychological profile. People keep saying oh she is a monster and evil etc as if she can be compared to a "normal" person when she cannot - she is a text book Narcissistic Machiavellian Psychopath and her behavior should be viewed from that lens or she just seems bizarre and makes no sense. I dated a girl identical to her psych profile and I feel a have some insight into her actions and things she says as they are eerily similar to things my ex would say and do. Casey is just like Scott Peterson, a master liar and manipulator - she cannot feel anything outside of her own needs and wants. That is why she sits in court with that blank expression and felt nothing when her dead child was found. Its meaningless to her. I still don't think she did this on purpose though.

If Casey had planned this out she could have easily lined the trunk with plastic, dumped the body in the glades or somewhere remote never to be found - torched the car and reported it stolen. No way she would have been caught. The only real evidence the police have is because she didn't take care of the car. The dogs hitting wouldn't be enough and neither would her bizarre behavior and lies.

Doesn't it seem like someone else is involved? George perhaps? Once the child was dead wouldn't he help his princess daughter Casey get out of trouble figuring the damage is done? Makes one ponder...

My prediction is she gets life in prison and then appeals it. 0% chance of the death penalty, the evidence just isn't there.

 

[cluciano63]

Some great posts! I've been looking for a good forum to discuss this fascinating case and this forum seems to be it!

The issue of the dogs hitting in the backyard throws off my theory a bit. I've maintained up until now that Casey got in a fight with her mom, stormed off with her kid- with nowhere to stay and having no sitter she gives Caylee Zanax (Zanny the Nanny) and leaves her in the car (probably the trunk). She comes back and the kid is dead - the rest that follows is her attempt at a cover up. Her borrowing the shovel to scrape something doesn't make sense to me and if the dogs are hitting on the backyard then we know the body was there before being moved to the trunk or vice versa. I think she may have made an attempt to bury the kid in the backyard and George came home or perhaps realized it was a dumb idea. You would have to be a complete moron to bury a body in your own backyard but then again a lot of serial killers put bodies in their own houses.

I think overdosing on Zanny bars was what killed the child - Chloroform seems a stretch. The Gatoraid bottle that had the syringe in it also contained Testosterone so we would have to assume Casey was able to buy both test & Chloroform which seems very unlikely. If you find who can confirm they sold Casey Zanny bars on a regular basis you would have a crack in the case (probably Tony's roomates) but nothing much has happened with that lead. The injection would not be necessary so I think bottle was just in the area the body was found, it doesn't seem related.

I think the dogs hitting in the backyard actually helps the defense because it means the child may have drowned in the pool and Casey moved the kid to the car and dumped it when she found a spot.

One thing that I think needs to be talked about more is Casey's psychological profile. People keep saying oh she is a monster and evil etc as if she can be compared to a "normal" person when she cannot - she is a text book Narcissistic Machiavellian Psychopath and her behavior should be viewed from that lens or she just seems bizarre and makes no sense. I dated a girl identical to her psych profile and I feel a have some insight into her actions and things she says as they are eerily similar to things my ex would say and do. Casey is just like Scott Peterson, a master liar and manipulator - she cannot feel anything outside of her own needs and wants. That is why she sits in court with that blank expression and felt nothing when her dead child was found. Its meaningless to her. I still don't think she did this on purpose though.

If Casey had planned this out she could have easily lined the trunk with plastic, dumped the body in the glades or somewhere remote never to be found - torched the car and reported it stolen. No way she would have been caught. The only real evidence the police have is because she didn't take care of the car. The dogs hitting wouldn't be enough and neither would her bizarre behavior and lies.

Doesn't it seem like someone else is involved? George perhaps? Once the child was dead wouldn't he help his princess daughter Casey get out of trouble figuring the damage is done? Makes one ponder...

My prediction is she gets life in prison and then appeals it. 0% chance of the death penalty, the evidence just isn't there.

Welcome to WS-you will every level of case follower here from complete experts to those like me. I only know the basics and am learning most everything as far as details from the trial as I try to figure it all out.

 

[Tuffy]

Wasn't it brought up early on that the area Caylee was found in was not the pet cemetary nor the area she and Kiomarie used to hang out in? I thought that area was on the other side of the fence behind the school. Just trying to get everything straight in my head.

Kiomarie Cruz talked about hanging out in the woods behind the school. She said there were trails through the woods, and teenagers would hang out and smoke there.

The spot where Caylee's remains were found was before you get to the school. No trails, and it's mostly swampy. As a matter of fact, it's part of some guy's yard.

Here is a link to a picture of where she was found.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4222333&postcount=358"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4222333&postcount=358[/ame]

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I think maybe Caylee never left the trunk at all after death. I can't see ICA risking that anyone might come home early, etc. I think the day ICA backed into the garage and borrowed the shovel went down like this:

1) ICA knows she needs to move Caylee's body.

2) ICA goes home and backs in the garage (with Caylee in the trunk) and goes into the house to find laundry bag, trash bag, etc. to put Caylee into.

3) ICA goes back to the trunk, opens it, and begins placing Caylee into the bags.

4) Decomposition has made the body wet, there is leaking and tissue stuck on the trunk carpet.

5) ICA borrows the neighbor's shovel to scrape tissue up to put in the bag with Caylee's larger remains.

6) ICA closes the trunk (with Caylee now inside the bags), and takes the shovel to the backyard to wash the remains off of it with a hose. I think these remains rinsed from the shovel into the backyard are what cadaver dogs hit on.

7) ICA returns the shovel and drives around the corner to the "pet cemetery" and leaves Caylee there.

Not that I'm agreeing with the entire theory but in reference to your bolded portion, the best explanation I've read from this board (moons ago) was that the canine hits may have been caused by residue left on the gas cans that were in the trunk. Transference. Imagine how many places in that back yard that George might have placed them refilling his lawn mower. . .

 

[BigRedCat]

I still find it very odd how Kronk found Caylee in the first place. Just by pure chance of having stopped there to take a wizz. He says he figured it was a good place to drop a body. Then he blows off seeing what he thinks is a skull and comes back later. Just weird!

 

[crucibelle]

I still find it very odd how Kronk found Caylee in the first place. Just by pure chance of having stopped there to take a wizz. He says he figured it was a good place to drop a body. Then he blows off seeing what he thinks is a skull and comes back later. Just weird!

I feel the same way. Something is verrrry hinky about all that, IMO.

 

[Tuffy]

I still find it very odd how Kronk found Caylee in the first place. Just by pure chance of having stopped there to take a wizz. He says he figured it was a good place to drop a body. Then he blows off seeing what he thinks is a skull and comes back later. Just weird!

He didn't find her by chance, he was looking for her, per Mr. Kronk. He originally told the "stopped to pee" story because he didn't want to get in trouble for looking while on his route.

I find Mr. Kronk to be weird, he's probably not someone I would hang around with, but he's not involved in this case. Other than finding the remains, and helping to bring justice for Caylee, I don't think he plays a part.

 

[Silkprint]

And that's how dead bodies are usually found .
People walk through the woods , collecting cans, hiking , building something .
I just read a thing on here about a missing woman that was found after 2 years because a guy had stopped where a friend had a car accident and he happened upon this missing womans skull .
That's how alot people are found when they are deceased ...by chance .
You have to remember that Little Caylee was NOT found far from the road ..just a matter of a few feet . She wasn't hidden away in the deep woods .

 

[Flossie JMO]

And that's how dead bodies are usually found .
People walk through the woods , collecting cans, hiking , building something .
I just read a thing on here about a missing woman that was found after 2 years because a guy had stopped where a friend had a car accident and he happened upon this missing womans skull .
That's how alot people are found when they are deceased ...by chance .
You have to remember that Little Caylee was NOT found far from the road ..just a matter of a few feet . She wasn't hidden away in the deep woods .

ITA I have read several times of dog walkers finding them as well

 

[LinasK]

And that's how dead bodies are usually found .
People walk through the woods , collecting cans, hiking , building something .
I just read a thing on here about a missing woman that was found after 2 years because a guy had stopped where a friend had a car accident and he happened upon this missing womans skull .
That's how alot people are found when they are deceased ...by chance .
You have to remember that Little Caylee was NOT found far from the road ..just a matter of a few feet . She wasn't hidden away in the deep woods .

ITA I have read several times of dog walkers finding them as well

Bingo! I don't find it suspicious at all that he went into the woods to pee and found her!!!:snooty:

 

[Silkprint]

LOLZ Tuffy ...Yeah I don't know that I would a Pepsi with him either but I am eternally grateful to him for finding little Caylee .

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Problem with the bolded scenario above is why would KC have then transported Caylee's deceased body home, remove it from her trunk and place in the backyard, only to return it to the trunk?

If you will recall, the cadaver dogs "hit" in the backyard, so at some point, Caylee's body WAS back there....

JMO but Caylee's body did not have to be in the backyard for the cadaver dogs to "hit" on a spot. ICA could have washed something off that had come into contact with Caylee's body....just a thought.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

This scenario makes sense to me...except that where the dogs hit seems a long way away from the garage-is there a hose over there?

Also I thought that the ME could not determine a cause of death? If so, how can it be known if the duct tape killed her? (This is a question from a post upthread, not your post.)

BBM...I don't know if the SA's are stating emphatically that duct tape was the cause of death but one has to surmise that duct tape placed over a 2 year olds airway, mouth and nose and wrapped around the skull, could only have been done with the most nefarious of intentions on the part of ICA. JMO.

 

[Mz.Harleywood]

And that's how dead bodies are usually found .
People walk through the woods , collecting cans, hiking , building something .
I just read a thing on here about a missing woman that was found after 2 years because a guy had stopped where a friend had a car accident and he happened upon this missing womans skull .
That's how alot people are found when they are deceased ...by chance .
You have to remember that Little Caylee was NOT found far from the road ..just a matter of a few feet . She wasn't hidden away in the deep woods .

I bet Kronk did more than just peed when he stumbled upon Caylee.

 

[SindyBill]

Living in Orlando, rumors had been swirling both locally and on the "blogs" for months prior about that area being the one where Caylee would be found. He just kept looking til he found her, JMO.

 

[LinasK]

JMO but Caylee's body did not have to be in the backyard for the cadaver dogs to "hit" on a spot. ICA could have washed something off that had come into contact with Caylee's body....just a thought.

Or even set her clothes down on the ground...