Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[human]

Please note the thread title.

This isn't a thread about what some people feel were Travis's issues.

Perhaps he was simply attracted to her because she was attractive & she appeared to be nice...in the beginning.


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Her issues attracted him to her.

The seeds of our own destruction are within ourselves until we recognize and deal with them.

That is why you see people from alcoholic families marrying an alcoholic, for instance, even though they have no clue that the person is alcoholic.

People can deny it to themselves as Travis did, but it was obvious to others how damaged she was.

 

[SMK]

Her issues attracted him to her.

The seeds of our own destruction are within ourselves until we recognize and deal with them.

That is why you see people from alcoholic families marrying an alcoholic, for instance, even though they have no clue that the person is alcoholic.

People can deny it to themselves as Travis did, but it was obvious to others how damaged she was.

Agreed. One of the main issues with Jodi's traits is how/why they served as a magnet to Travis. A one sided analysis is no analysis at all. Travis became Jodi's victim mainly because he overlooked things which many people would not have overlooked: Typical from one with his kind of childhood. This makes him doubly victimized.

 

[Gecko100]

Agreed. One of the main issues with Jodi's traits is how/why they served as a magnet to Travis. A one sided analysis is no analysis at all. Travis became Jodi's victim mainly because he overlooked things which many people would not have overlooked: Typical from one with his kind of childhood. This makes him doubly victimized.

Does that make her doubly victimised too?

 

[human]

There is no doubt in my mind. None. That JA's family life was not good.

Who knows what went on.

But a mother laughing during a daughter's murder trial! Wow.

The fights they had as she grew up indicate a parent who does not know how to parent.

If a child is out of control, then a parent must look at his/her own behavior. They are the ADULT.

If they cannot figure it out, go get help.

Love really does work.

I do not see much love in Jodi's life from her parents.

There are parents who feel their babies are out to get them. I have a feeling her parents are of that variety

 

[SMK]

Does that make her doubly victimised too?

In MY opinion, Yes.

 

[SMK]

There is no doubt in my mind. None. That JA's family life was not good.

Who knows what went on.

But a mother laughing during a daughter's murder trial! Wow.

The fights they had as she grew up indicate a parent who does not know how to parent.

If a child is out of control, then a parent must look at his/her own behavior. They are the ADULT.

If they cannot figure it out, go get help.

Love really does work.

I do not see much love in Jodi's life from her parents.

There are parents who feel their babies are out to get them. I have a feeling her parents are of that variety

VERY astute observation: I had parents of this variety(ignored their own behavior, and any and all acting out on the part of the child, was the child 'trying to get at them') and I think there are many indicators that Arias had this kind, as well.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Her issues attracted him to her.

The seeds of our own destruction are within ourselves until we recognize and deal with them.

That is why you see people from alcoholic families marrying an alcoholic, for instance, even though they have no clue that the person is alcoholic.

People can deny it to themselves as Travis did, but it was obvious to others how damaged she was.

I don't think he or anyone else knew immediately how damaged she was when they first met.

I've dated men who appear to be something they're not. Id get together & start dating because there is a mutual attraction, id stay together long enough to know each other better. If something came up like I discovered they were a liar, drank too much, manipulative.. I broke up with the person. Once I had one that just didn't accept no & goodbye for an answer ... That was a little hairy for a bit. That one pushed me to my limit. The sex was great and a few times I gave in after I knew it was over.

I found myself screaming at him at the top of my lungs as I hurled his belongings at him from my front step. He also was in the habit of leaving stuff behind for an excuse to keep coming back.




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[Horace Finklestein]

In MY opinion, Yes.

How can you believe Jodi is also a victim?

 

[SMK]

How can you believe Jodi is also a victim?

In the criminal case, of course she is not a victim: She is the murderer and TA was her victim. Looking at the broader scope of life, she is a victim of her upbringing, her brain chemistry, her relating with TA - her life is ruined, and none of us would want to trade places with her (nor TA, but I would rather be TA than JA).

 

[SMK]

I don't think he or anyone else knew immediately how damaged she was when they first met.

I've dated men who appear to be something they're not. Id get together & start dating because there is a mutual attraction, id stay together long enough to know each other better. If something came up like I discovered they were a liar, drank too much, manipulative.. I broke up with the person. Once I had one that just didn't accept no & goodbye for an answer ... That was a little hairy for a bit. That one pushed me to my limit. The sex was great and a few times I gave in after I knew it was over.

I found myself screaming at him at the top of my lungs as I hurled his belongings at him from my front step. He also was in the habit of leaving stuff behind for an excuse to keep coming back.




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Yes, it can be hard to tell: But you did see through this man, and he was obviously FAR LESS of a danger to you than JA was to TA. I think with the kind of sex they were engaging in: Unless you simply go and pay a prostitute, which he obviously did not want to do, it is a red flag: You are going to pay a huge, huge price for becoming involved with a woman who is acting out/manipulating in this way.

 

[Linda7NJ]

There is no doubt in my mind. None. That JA's family life was not good.

Who knows what went on.

But a mother laughing during a daughter's murder trial! Wow.

The fights they had as she grew up indicate a parent who does not know how to parent.

If a child is out of control, then a parent must look at his/her own behavior. They are the ADULT.

If they cannot figure it out, go get help.

Love really does work.

I do not see much love in Jodi's life from her parents.

There are parents who feel their babies are out to get them. I have a feeling her parents are of that variety

Perhaps she was born that way?
A bottomless well that was impossible to fill?
maybe with her need to be the center of attention constantly, she became a dangerous person in her siblings young lives.
Maybe they grew tired of walking on egg shells and her psychopathic manipulations.
Maybe she tormented her family to the point that they only showed up out of a misguided feeling of duty
maybe they have a feeling of love
for a child they thought she was, not the monster she truly is.


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[human]

I don't think he or anyone else knew immediately how damaged she was when they first met"

I really do not like saying anything to people I have no clue about, but the attraction is subconscious. A con can spot a victim a mile away. They know the signs. And a damaged person is attracted to a damaged person.

All I can say is to meditate upon things in your life and see where the issues are coming from.

I think we all have things to overcome. The first step is to figure out what it is that is not working in life.

The next step is to figure out where that dysfunction might have come from. And then it is up to us to work on fixing it.

We cannot blame our parents or boss or whatever once we realize there is a problem.

We always have work to make ourselves better human beings

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't think he or anyone else knew immediately how damaged she was when they first met"

I really do not like saying anything to people I have no clue about, but the attraction is subconscious. A con can spot a victim a mile away. They know the signs. And a damaged person is attracted to a damaged person.

All I can say is to meditate upon things in your life and see where the issues are coming from.

I think we all have things to overcome. The first step is to figure out what it is that is not working in life.

The next step is to figure out where that dysfunction might have come from. And then it is up to us to work on fixing it.

We cannot blame our parents or boss or whatever once we realize there is a problem.

We always have work to make ourselves better human beings

Oh I know what my problem was.
I was young, shallow and not looking for a soul mate. I liked gorgeous men, didn't matter much to me what they were like on the inside.

When I was ready to settle down, get serious, and find someone I wanted to marry ...all of that changed.


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[human]

Perhaps she was born that way?
A bottomless well that was impossible to fill?
maybe with her need to be the center of attention constantly, she became a dangerous person in her siblings young lives.
Maybe they grew tired of walking on egg shells and her psychopathic manipulations.
Maybe she tormented her family to the point that they only showed up out of a misguided feeling of duty
maybe they have a feeling of love
for a child they thought she was, not the monster she truly is.


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I doubt she was born that way. Maybe she was born more needy, but there are many studies that indicate what we should do as parents and what happens when we do not.

Not answering a baby's cries. Leaving children in front of the TV or in containers such as playpens, baby seats, fighting with your spouse, even if the baby is asleep, propping the bottle. Many many things . And then there are the obvious cigarette burns, wallops, etc.

I taught school for 30 years in poverty schools. i had 100's of students. In that time, I had two students that did not respond to positive reinforcement. Ignoring the bad and responding to the appropriate,

The two children. One the mother had made RAD and no hope working with the mother to make the child's life better. The other one was spoiled rotten and the mother and grandparents would not admit that the child did anything wrong. It was ALWAYS someone else's fault.

I believe in parenting errors. Huge errors. Lack of love is probably the biggest one that causes issues.

Parents may nit like reading this, but if we do not work on raising children, we are in deep doo doo

.

 

[Gecko100]

In the criminal case, of course she is not a victim: She is the murderer and TA was her victim. Looking at the broader scope of life, she is a victim of her upbringing, her brain chemistry, her relating with TA - her life is ruined, and none of us would want to trade places with her (nor TA, but I would rather be TA than JA).

JA said that she pleaded with her mother to leave her father, I'm not sure what it might imply, but suggests something.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I doubt she was born that way. Maybe she was born more needy, but there are many studies that indicate what we should do as parents and what happens when we do not.

Not answering a baby's cries. Leaving children in front of the TV or in containers such as playpens, baby seats, fighting with your spouse, even if the baby is asleep, propping the bottle. Many many things . And then there are the obvious cigarette burns, wallops, etc.

I taught school for 30 years in poverty schools. i had 100's of students. In that time, I had two students that did not respond to positive reinforcement. Ignoring the bad and responding to the appropriate,

The two children. One the mother had made RAD and no hope working with the mother to make the child's life better. The other one was spoiled rotten and the mother and grandparents would not admit that the child did anything wrong. It was ALWAYS someone else's fault.

I believe in parenting errors. Huge errors. Lack of love is probably the biggest one that causes issues.

Parents may nit like reading this, but if we do not work on raising children, we are in deep doo doo

.

I agree with you, I'd say you're right about that in the vast majority of cases... however I do believe sometimes they're just born defective. The wiring is just not right.

Jodi learned to lie, manipulate and triangulate to get her goals met. Notice I said goals not needs. And when that failed, she decided to murder.

I'd bet her younger siblings suffered plenty due to Jodi's manipulation and lies.


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[Linda7NJ]

JA said that she pleaded with her mother to leave her father, I'm not sure what it might imply, but suggests something.

Jodi is a liar.

Seems her mother was easier to manipulate without her dad around.


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[ATasteOfHoney]

I doubt she was born that way. Maybe she was born more needy, but there are many studies that indicate what we should do as parents and what happens when we do not.

Not answering a baby's cries. Leaving children in front of the TV or in containers such as playpens, baby seats, fighting with your spouse, even if the baby is asleep, propping the bottle. Many many things . And then there are the obvious cigarette burns, wallops, etc.

I taught school for 30 years in poverty schools. i had 100's of students. In that time, I had two students that did not respond to positive reinforcement. Ignoring the bad and responding to the appropriate,

The two children. One the mother had made RAD and no hope working with the mother to make the child's life better. The other one was spoiled rotten and the mother and grandparents would not admit that the child did anything wrong. It was ALWAYS someone else's fault.

I believe in parenting errors. Huge errors. Lack of love is probably the biggest one that causes issues.

Parents may nit like reading this, but if we do not work on raising children, we are in deep doo doo

.

She may have been born that way indeed.
The most recent brain flouroscopy studies in BPD's for instance (and I believe LindaNJ has cited in Psychopath/Sociopath's too via Dr. Hare studies) shows a disconnect in the neurological wiring and responses between the amygdala and the frontal cortex. To simplify the results: the amygdala over-responds to stimuli and the cortex under-responds and is flat. This is a completely genetic, born-this-way fault.

And then of course, there are many empirical studies that show people with a personality disorder (and some mood disorders) have a greater number of first generation relatives with the same thing----in other words, namely their parents.

While I don't believe that it is all nature, I would never say it is all nurture either.

MOO.....your mileage and research may vary.

 

[Frigga]

Oh I know what my problem was.
I was young, shallow and not looking for a soul mate. I liked gorgeous men, didn't matter much to me what they were like on the inside.

When I was ready to settle down, get serious, and find someone I wanted to marry ...all of that changed.


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I am glad you decided to change once you got serious Linda. Good for you. I have a friend, to this day (I am almost 48, she is 49/50) who the first thing out of her mouth is always-"he's gorgeous". Her husband was "gorgeous"... had an addiction to *advertiser censored*, lived like he was a single man (they had 2 young children) and left her for her sisters best friend. She still doesn't get it.

I understand and appreciate where all points of view are coming from on this thread. I admire those who are trying to make sense or have an understanding of the entire dynamic- for both individuals. Otherwise how do we change, recognize, or make a difference? The dialogue is important... even if sometimes I don't agree. I do want to listen and contemplate. Thanks everyone.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am glad you decided to change once you got serious Linda. Good for you. I have a friend, to this day (I am almost 48, she is 49/50) who the forst thing out of her mouth is always-"he's gorgeous". Her husband was "gorgeous"... had an addiction to *advertiser censored*, lived like he was a single man (they had 2 young children) and left her for her sisters best friend. She still doesn't get it.

I understand and appreciate where all points of view are coming from on this thread. I admire those who are trying to make sense or have an understanding of the entire dynamic- for both individuals. Otherwise how do we change, recognize, or make a difference? The dialogue is important... even if sometimes I don't agree. I do want to listen and contemplate. Thanks everyone.

Some people just never want to grow up


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