Poll: was Patsy involved?

[andreww]

Would a spouse look that happy knowing the other had murdered their daughter? I think not.

All three look happy, yet one of them killed her, so your argument is a moot point. Basically all three are guilt of one thing or another IMO.


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[andreww]

Throughout life we have more than just one nemesis. Once you get rid of one...I would think it would be much easier to rid yourself of another...especially if you get away with it the first time...

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Not true. It's often said that domestic murderers make model prisoners simply because they are very unlikely to reoffend. The act was based on years of conflict with that single person and was carried out in a moment of blind rage. These are generally normal people like you and I that simply lost it at some point. They are not serial killers.


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[kanzz]

All three look happy, yet one of them killed her, so your argument is a moot point. Basically all three are guilt of one thing or another IMO.


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Except that I was responding to this post by Pinkland - who said, "Would they appear that happy sitting with a child that murdered their daughter? I wouldn't think so." So, it's not a moot point in reference to that.

Yes, all three look happy. What does that tell us? Well, for one thing, it tells us somebody was taking their picture.

 

[andreww]

Except that I was responding to this post by Pinkland - who said, "Would they appear that happy sitting with a child that murdered their daughter? I wouldn't think so." So, it's not a moot point in reference to that.

Yes, all three look happy. What does that tell us? Well, for one thing, it tells us somebody was taking their picture.

Ah, but you logic only applies if BDI? Why would John and Burke look happy if PDI? Why would Patsy and Burke look happy if JDI? The picture tells us nothing. It was posed for. And even murderers and accomplices can muster a smile when needed.

 

[kanzz]

Ah, but you logic only applies if BDI? Why would John and Burke look happy if PDI? Why would Patsy and Burke look happy if JDI? The picture tells us nothing. It was posed for. And even murderers and accomplices can muster a smile when needed.

Right. The pic tells us nothing. That's what I was saying in my last post. When I replied to Pinkland, I was just pointing out the other end of the spectrum. -- she was all, Eek! why would you smile by your son who murdered your baby?!, so I said, Eek! why would you smile by your spouse who murdered your baby?! -- trying to point out how ludicrous it was to try to read anything into it. So, you and I are kinda saying the same thing, I guess I just didn't explain it very well. sry

 

[andreww]

Right. The pic tells us nothing. That's what I was saying in my last post. When I replied to Pinkland, I was just pointing out the other end of the spectrum. -- she was all, Eek! why would you smile by your son who murdered your baby?!, so I said, Eek! why would you smile by your spouse who murdered your baby?! -- trying to point out how ludicrous it was to try to read anything into it. So, you and I are kinda saying the same thing, I just didn't do it very well. sry

Got ya

 

[Userid]

All three look happy, yet one of them killed her, so your argument is a moot point. Basically all three are guilt of one thing or another IMO.


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Agree, people are putting way, way too much stock in one photograph. It literally tells us nothing.

 

[Pinkland]

Not true. It's often said that domestic murderers make model prisoners simply because they are very unlikely to reoffend. The act was based on years of conflict with that single person and was carried out in a moment of blind rage. These are generally normal people like you and I that simply lost it at some point. They are not serial killers.


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If Burke committed this murder by bash, molestation, and strangulation...there is more going on with him than being just classified as a "domestic murderer". He would have to be a sociopath or psychopath. These offenders are more apt to kill again if they have killed before.

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[Pinkland]

Who said the other spouse had to know? What I'm basically saying is you cannot attach any thought a subject might have based on a photo. That's just insane.

It reminds me of the song...,"The Show Must Go On" by Queen.

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This was my main point in regards to the photo. I was pointing out that using a photo to justify a person's thoughts or feelings is insane...that it could all be just a show...and so nothing regarding sentiments should be applied to the photo.

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[andreww]

If Burke committed this murder by bash, molestation, and strangulation...there is more going on with him than being just classified as a "domestic murderer". He would have to be a sociopath or psychopath. These offenders are more apt to kill again if they have killed before.

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I don't think there is any evidence to show the murder was premeditated. I am a BDI and I believe the kid simply lost his temper and hit his sister. My brother once hit me in the head with a brick when we were little. He lead a normal life, wife, kids, just like anybody else. Now if I had died, would he be a sociopath? Sometimes its the luck of the draw. JB gets up with a lump on her head and life goes on, or her skull cracks and life changes. Just because a 9 year old used too much force and didn't know his own strength.

 

[Pinkland]

I don't think there is any evidence to show the murder was premeditated. I am a BDI and I believe the kid simply lost his temper and hit his sister. My brother once hit me in the head with a brick when we were little. He lead a normal life, wife, kids, just like anybody else. Now if I had died, would he be a sociopath? Sometimes its the luck of the draw. JB gets up with a lump on her head and life goes on, or her skull cracks and life changes. Just because a 9 year old used too much force and didn't know his own strength.

Which is why I stated that if Burke bashed, molested, and then strangled...it would be more than domestic murder. Something would have to be majorly wrong with Burke.

If he just bashed his sister in a fit of rage that is one thing. But if that happened why wouldn't the parents just call 911?

Something else must have stopped them from calling 911, like a ligature around JBR's neck.

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[UKGuy]

Which is why I stated that if Burke bashed, molested, and then strangled...it would be more than domestic murder. Something would have to be majorly wrong with Burke.


If he just bashed his sister in a fit of rage that is one thing. But if that happened why wouldn't the parents just call 911?

Something else must have stopped them from calling 911, like a ligature around JBR's neck.

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Pinkland,

That's the smoking gun, i.e. no medical assistance for JonBenet.

So was a faite accompli presented to Patsy, a comatose JonBenet either dead or apparently lifeless, along with signs of sexual assault?

Most assume no medical assistance was called as JonBenet had been visibly sexually assaulted, e.g. bloodstains?


I could be wrong but that might rule out Patsy as JonBenet's assailant?

If it were JR then we would have a JR and PR conspiracy, since there is enough forensic evidence to link Patsy to the wine-cellar crime-scene?

The part of BDI that I find puzzling is if its BDI All, as per Kolar, then what are the children doing down in the basement late on Christmas Night?

Kolar has suggested BR moved JonBenet from the breakfast bar to the basement in one of his interviews with Tricia, he would not enlarge upon this though.

So what is the best scenario Kolar's or the children playing in the basement?

.

 

[OliviaG1996]

Pinkland,

That's the smoking gun, i.e. no medical assistance for JonBenet.

So was a faite accompli presented to Patsy, a comatose JonBenet either dead or apparently lifeless, along with signs of sexual assault?

Most assume no medical assistance was called as JonBenet had been visibly sexually assaulted, e.g. bloodstains?


I could be wrong but that might rule out Patsy as JonBenet's assailant?

If it were JR then we would have a JR and PR conspiracy, since there is enough forensic evidence to link Patsy to the wine-cellar crime-scene?

The part of BDI that I find puzzling is if its BDI All, as per Kolar, then what are the children doing down in the basement late on Christmas Night?

Kolar has suggested BR moved JonBenet from the breakfast bar to the basement in one of his interviews with Tricia, he would not enlarge upon this though.

So what is the best scenario Kolar's or the children playing in the basement?

.

IMO, the kids were in the basement because they were looking for extra Christmas presents. Or, BR was searching for his upcoming birthday presents and JBR came in unwanted.

 

[UKGuy]

IMO, the kids were in the basement because they were looking for extra Christmas presents. Or, BR was searching for his upcoming birthday presents and JBR came in unwanted.

OliviaG1996,
That sounds plausible, yet Kolar says BR had been searching the basement Christmas Day afternoon, and it was him who partially opened those gifts.

If that's true then PR took a bullet for BR by saying she opened the gifts to peek at gifts she had recently purchased?

This fits with other answers PR gave to investigators.

BR did not need an excuse to be alone with JonBenet, since they shared beds regularly.

Not unless Kolar's BDI All, with maladaptive behavioral undertones, is correct.

Kolar must know something extra if BDI All is true since there is a big hole in the BDI theory and nobody has plugged it yet.

.

 

[Pinkland]

Pinkland,

That's the smoking gun, i.e. no medical assistance for JonBenet.

So was a faite accompli presented to Patsy, a comatose JonBenet either dead or apparently lifeless, along with signs of sexual assault?

Most assume no medical assistance was called as JonBenet had been visibly sexually assaulted, e.g. bloodstains?


I could be wrong but that might rule out Patsy as JonBenet's assailant?

If it were JR then we would have a JR and PR conspiracy, since there is enough forensic evidence to link Patsy to the wine-cellar crime-scene?

The part of BDI that I find puzzling is if its BDI All, as per Kolar, then what are the children doing down in the basement late on Christmas Night?

Kolar has suggested BR moved JonBenet from the breakfast bar to the basement in one of his interviews with Tricia, he would not enlarge upon this though.

So what is the best scenario Kolar's or the children playing in the basement?

.

That's the thing...in the BDI bash and molestation scenario....we do not know if Burke would tell his mother he hit JBR over the head.

Let's say Burke says nothing...and hides in his room. Patsy would come downstairs and find an unresponsive and sexually assaulted JBR. I would think that even in this scenario she would call 911.

Some blood with an unresponsive child; She would have no idea if someone broke into the house, or if John or Burke was involved. Therefore, I would still see her reaching for phone and calling for help.

The only way BDI has a chance I'd if it is BDI all, with Patsy and John finding a strangled, unresponsive, and bleeding JBR.

IMO, the kids were in the basement because they were looking for extra Christmas presents. Or, BR was searching for his upcoming birthday presents and JBR came in unwanted.

This to me makes no sense. I think it would take away motive and weapon from the BDI scenario.

Mom and dad are upstairs at least two floors up. There would be no need to use a flashlight in the basement. In fact, they would probably want two hands to rip open the gifts and investigate.

Burke has to have the flashlight in his hands to bash JBR. I do not see Burke holding the flashlight so JBR could open the gifts. Thus..in both scenarios the flashlight isn't present to bash JBR.

The only way the murder takes place in the basement in a BDI scenario is if the murder is premeditated.


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[OliviaG1996]

That's the thing...in the BDI bash and molestation scenario....we do not know if Burke would tell his mother he hit JBR over the head.

Let's say Burke says nothing...and hides in his room. Patsy would come downstairs and find an unresponsive and sexually assaulted JBR. I would think that even in this scenario she would call 911.

Some blood with an unresponsive child; She would have no idea if someone broke into the house, or if John or Burke was involved. Therefore, I would still see her reaching for phone and calling for help.

The only way BDI has a chance I'd if it is BDI all, with Patsy and John finding a strangled, unresponsive, and bleeding JBR.



This to me makes no sense. I think it would take away motive and weapon from the BDI scenario.

Mom and dad are upstairs at least two floors up. There would be no need to use a flashlight in the basement. In fact, they would probably want two hands to rip open the gifts and investigate.

Burke has to have the flashlight in his hands to bash JBR. I do not see Burke holding the flashlight so JBR could open the gifts. Thus..in both scenarios the flashlight isn't present to bash JBR.

The only way the murder takes place in the basement in a BDI scenario is if the murder is premeditated.


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It wouldn't take away motive at all- BR looks for presents, JBR threatens to tell, the head bash occurs. Nor would that scenario take away the weapon- BR easily could've wanted to go on a "scavenger hunt" of sorts being a nine-year-old boy, with the help of his imagination and a flashlight.

Whether or not the murder was premeditated, I don't know. I lean towards it being spur of the moment with BR taking out his anger in other ways afterwards, though.

 

[Pinkland]

It wouldn't take away motive at all- Br looks for presents, JBR threatens to tell, the head bash occurs. Nor would that scenario take away the weapon- BR easily could've wanted to go on a "scavenger hunt" of sorts being a nine-year-old boy, with the help of his imagination and a flashlight.

Whether or not the murder was premeditated, I don't know. I lean towards it being spur of the moment with BR taking out his anger in other ways afterwards, though.

It would be awfully hard to investigate and open presents with one hand.

Also if they are playing a game JBR would not turn to tell on her brother. A child would not tell on a sibling for opening gifts...she would be opening them too.

Also...let's say Burke snuck down to the basement alone with the flashlight. It's highly unlikely JBR would follow him in the dark to the basement that she disliked by herself.

It just does not make sense for the murder to happen in the basement. And even if it did, it still does not make sense for emergency services to not be notified if the head bash is accidental.

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[OliviaG1996]

It would be awfully hard to investigate and open presents with one hand.

Also if they are playing a game JBR would not turn to tell on her brother. A child would not tell on a sibling for opening gifts...she would be opening them too.

Also...let's say Burke snuck down to the basement alone with the flashlight. It's highly unlikely JBR would follow him in the dark to the basement that she disliked by herself.

It just does not make sense for the murder to happen in the basement. And even if it did, it still does not make sense for emergency services to not be notified if the head bash is accidental.

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Maybe JBR wasn't invited to search for presents and showed up unannounced. Maybe BR did turn on a light after bringing a flashlight for the purpose of pretend. These points are rather trivial, as siblings have fights all the time and kids have wild imaginations.

As others have stated, JBR's condition could not have been explained innocently to LE if she was found strangled with her genitals bloodied with no signs of an intruder. Someone in that house was going to jail at that point.

 

[Pinkland]

Maybe JBR wasn't invited to search for presents and showed up unannounced. Maybe BR did turn on a light after bringing a flashlight for the purpose of pretend. These points are rather trivial, as siblings have fights all the time and kids have wild imaginations.

As others have stated, JBR's condition could not have been explained innocently to LE if she was found strangled with her genitals bloodied with no signs of an intruder. Someone in that house was going to jail at that point.

These are far fetched scenarios with no evidence to support the hypothesis. No fibers tie Burke to the basement scene or ligature.

As you said, you think the head bash is accidental. I'm simply stating that it's very unlikely that Burke accidently hits his sister, then purposely molests and strangles her. It is also very unlikely that the accidental bash happens in the basement.

If BDI committed the murder then it has to be he did it all and premeditated in the basement.

I simply find that scenario less logical, than a PDI scenario.

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[OliviaG1996]

These are far fetched scenarios with no evidence to support the hypothesis. No fibers tie Burke to the basement scene or ligature.

As you said, you think the head bash is accidental. I'm simply stating that it's very unlikely that Burke accidently hits his sister, then purposely molests and strangles her. It is also very unlikely that the accidental bash happens in the basement.

If BDI committed the murder then it has to be he did it all and premeditated in the basement.

I simply find that scenario less logical, than a PDI scenario.

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There's no evidence to support PR committing the head bash, but you support this hypothesis, yes?

There's way more holes in a PDI theory than in a BDI one (who molested JBR, why no divorce, why no history of abuse, why no coherent explanation for BR's nonchalant attitude, etc.), but we'll agree to disagree.

ETA: We don't know what kind of shirt BR was wearing, so to say his fibers were not found is erroneous.