Possible Victim: Fire Island Jane Doe, UP9098, found Davis Park Apr 1996 & Ocean Parkway Apr 2011 - Karen Vergata

[Orville Butch]

The torso found in 2000 in the Rockaways is no longer in Namus. Link in my original post.

Wow what torso do you mean exactly? Could the torso have been there for 3 years? Do you remember the post mortem interval (even though its usually inaccurate in namus imo)

edit: [h=2]

UID Female Torso, Teen, 2000, Queens NY[/h]

ME/C Contact Information
Name: Benjamin Figura
Agency: OCME-NYC
Phone Number: 212-447-2770
E-mail Address: bfigura@ocme.nyc.gov

Case Information
Status: Unidentified
NamUs-UP #: 6058
Case Number: Q00-02697
NCIC Number: N/A
Date Found: 2000-06-20 00:00:00
Date Entered: 2009-10-16 14:12:00
Date Modified: 2009-10-17 06:32:00
GPS Found: 40.590745, -73.814526
Address Found: Beach 88 Street, on the bay
Queens, NY
Queens County

Demographics and Circumstances
Estimated Age: Adult - Pre 20
Minimum Age: 15 years
Maximum Age: 20 years
Race: Unsure
Ethnicity: N/A
Sex: Female
Weight (lbs.): 0, Cannot Estimate
Height (inch): 0, Cannot Estimate
Condition: Partial Remains
Probable Year of Death: 2000
Est. Postmortem Interval: N/A N/A
DNA Profile Status: Complete - nucDNA Profile available in FBI NMPDD
Circumstances of Death: female torso wrapped in plastic bags found on the beach on the bay side of Beach 88 street.

Body Details
No Details Available
Body Parts Inventory: Head Not Recovered, Limbs Not Recovered, Hands Not Recovered

Fingerprint Classification
RT N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
LT N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Fingerprint Comments
N/A

Clothing, Hair, Eyes
No Details Available​

 

[Orville Butch]

https://www.rockawave.com/articles/headless-torso-found-in-weeded-arverne-lot/

68th st to 88th st very close, just a straight shot 4 minutes very similar only two years apart. In both cases killer wrapped victims in plastic and dumped the head/torso in different places.

 

[SageRhiannon]

Wow what torso do you mean exactly? Could the torso have been there for 3 years? Do you remember the post mortem interval (even though its usually inaccurate in namus imo)

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In June 2000, an UID female torso was located in the Rockaways wrapped in plastic bags. Estimated age between 16-25 y/o. Namus had probable year of death at between 1999-2000.

Besides the probable year of death, which you point out can be inaccurate in Namus, this sounded like it could potentially be Fire Island Jane Doe’s. I have looked at it repeatedly throughout the years & noticed yesterday that it was no longer listed on Namus.

Fire Island Jane Doe’s torso has never been recovered.

 

[SageRhiannon]

https://www.rockawave.com/articles/headless-torso-found-in-weeded-arverne-lot/

68th st to 88th st very close, just a straight shot 4 minutes very similar only two years apart. In both cases killer wrapped victims in plastic and dumped the head/torso in different places.

This one sounds like Andre Jamal Isaac aka Sugar Bear.

 

[Orville Butch]

This one sounds like Andre Jamal Isaac aka Sugar Bear.

Yes indeed. There are unquestionable similarities between these two cases, wouldn't you agree? So if that torso is Fire Island Jane Doe it really links all the cases together. We already know LISK kills males wearing women's cloth, and he dumped both the unidentified male on Ocean Parkway and Isaac in female clothing. Why not remove the clothing, since it such a huge clue to their identities?

 

[deedee21]

A skull was found in a wooded area near the LIE in Aug 2016. LE said it was there for an extended period of time. No reports after that.

 

[Orville Butch]

In June 2000, an UID female torso was located in the Rockaways wrapped in plastic bags. Estimated age between 16-25 y/o. Namus had probable year of death at between 1999-2000.

Besides the probable year of death, which you point out can be inaccurate in Namus, this sounded like it could potentially be Fire Island Jane Doe’s. I have looked at it repeatedly throughout the years & noticed yesterday that it was no longer listed on Namus.

Fire Island Jane Doe’s torso has never been recovered.

Sage, I agree with you 100%. If she was found in June and the estimate said 1999 that means it definitely was not a recent murder and very well could be Fire Island Jane Doe.

 

[SageRhiannon]

A skull was found in a wooded area near the LIE in Aug 2016. LE said it was there for an extended period of time. No reports after that.

Yes I’ve always wondered if that were Peaches or Cherries skull. No Namus for that skull either.

 

[SageRhiannon]

Sage, I agree with you 100%. If she was found in June and the estimate said 1999 that means it definitely was not a recent murder and very well could be Fire Island Jane Doe.

My suspicion as well. It was the only torso that I could find that could be a likely for Fire Island (that has been recovered). And now that it has been taken out of Namau, I am really curious.

As for Sugar Bear, I have always felt there were many things that just suggest he could be related. For the reasons you pointed out & because parts of him are found in Suffolk. I agree with all the points you made regarding him.

 

[Orville Butch]

My suspicion as well. It was the only torso that I could find that could be a likely for Fire Island (that has been recovered). And now that it has been taken out of Namau, I am really curious.

As for Sugar Bear, I have always felt there were many things that just suggest he could be related. For the reasons you pointed out & because parts of him are found in Suffolk. I agree with all the points you made regarding him.

Isaac and Jessica Taylor also lived in the same neighborhood in Brooklyn according to news reports from their murders as well. Taylor was murdered 6 months after Issac. And then Isaac's skull ends up just 10 miles outside Manorville.

 

[SageRhiannon]

Isaac and Jessica Taylor also lived in the same neighborhood in Brooklyn according to news reports from their murders as well. Taylor was murdered 6 months after Issac. And then Isaac's skull ends up just 10 miles outside Manorville.

That is very interesting! Also, his legs were also found in Suffolk but the location was never disclosed (I have no idea why). There was a good post somewhere on WS that made a good case that the location of the legs could have been Manorville. Also, even though his torso was recovered first in the Rockaways, it is listed as a Suffolk County PD case. (I am not sure how jurisdiction works, but I would have assumed that the first place where body parts are recovered would be which county/precinct has jurisdiction).

 

[Orville Butch]

That is very interesting! Also, his legs were also found in Suffolk but the location was never disclosed (I have no idea why). There was a good post somewhere on WS that made a good case that the location of the legs could have been Manorville. Also, even though his torso was recovered first in the Rockaways, it is listed as a Suffolk County PD case. (I am not sure how jurisdiction works, but I would have assumed that the first place where body parts are recovered would be which county/precinct has jurisdiction).

Good question and interesting when you look at the timeline of events. In my personal opinion this case is considered LISK by SCPD so it may have become part of the Manorville Butcher investigation once Jessica Taylor and the unidentified male were found in July and November 2003 respectively.

DNA tests linked the body parts to a torso found clad in a skirt, black body suit and tank top in Far Rockaway, Queens, in December 2002. It took Suffolk detectives almost a year and a half to identify the victim as Andre Jamal Isaac, 25, of East New York, the grandson of a Vietnam POW.
In May 2004, one drag queen told a detective, “Hey, that looks like Sugar Bear.”

 

[SageRhiannon]

Good question and interesting when you look at the timeline of events. In my personal opinion this case is considered LISK by SCPD so it may have become part of the Manorville Butcher investigation once Jessica Taylor and the unidentified male were found in July and November 2003 respectively.

I have always suspected that also. Glad to find someone who views this the same as me.

 

[Orville Butch]

I have always suspected that also. Glad to find someone who views this the same as me.

Going on the premise that Isaac was killed by LISK then it seems pretty clear this man in most likely the serial killer.

Isaac just before Thanksgiving getting into a car with a “secret friend.” He was never seen again.“He went out without a coat and said he would be right back. He left his pocketbook,” she said. Fitzpatrick said the car was a red, BMW-type coupe with “nice rims” driven by a Hispanic man.

If the LISK drove a red bmw in 2002 that sure seems like it would narrow down the suspect pool a lot. Also sounds like Isaac's friend who was the last to see him knows who the killer is. Does SCPD know who the killer is?

 

[deedee21]

That is very interesting! Also, his legs were also found in Suffolk but the location was never disclosed (I have no idea why). There was a good post somewhere on WS that made a good case that the location of the legs could have been Manorville. Also, even though his torso was recovered first in the Rockaways, it is listed as a Suffolk County PD case. (I am not sure how jurisdiction works, but I would have assumed that the first place where body parts are recovered would be which county/precinct has jurisdiction).

His head was found in a lake in Suffolk Co. I beleive.

 

[SageRhiannon]

His head was found in a lake in Suffolk Co. I beleive.

Yes it was. Center Moriches. But torso found first, that’s why I thought it should be a 100 precinct case & not SCPD. Makes me suspicious as to why they got the case.

 

[SageRhiannon]

Going on the premise that Isaac was killed by LISK then it seems pretty clear this man in most likely the serial killer.

If the LISK drove a red bmw in 2002 that sure seems like it would narrow down the suspect pool a lot. Also sounds like Isaac's friend who was the last to see him knows who the killer is. Does SCPD know who the killer is?

Makes you wonder how much SCPD knows.

 

[deedee21]

Yes it was. Center Moriches. But torso found first, that’s why I thought it should be a 100 precinct case & not SCPD. Makes me suspicious as to why they got the case.

Are you saying Suffolk Co has NYPD case?

 

[Orville Butch]

Makes you wonder how much SCPD knows.

Do they know or are they incompetent?

 

[SageRhiannon]

Are you saying Suffolk Co has NYPD case?

Yes. On an article on Sugar Bear, the bottom said to call SCPD with info/tips, not NYPD, so I can only assume SCPD has the Sugar Bear case.