Possible Victim: Natasha Jugo, 31, Queens, Body Washed Ashore and belongings found on Gilgo Beach Mar 2013 *car fnd Ocean Pkwy*

[twocuriouscats]

Per FN's suggestion, I reluctantly looked at the Craigslist postings for Saturday the 18th. I saw so many crass ads and it wouldn't surprise me if RR posted a m4w ad for Saturday evening. I would like to know more about that white van. I hope NCPD is searching his computer for any attempts to hookup with providers or interested women.

More than likely he followed her and pulled her over at the beach, claiming to be LE...and told her to get into his van...

 

[Just K]

One article I read says they are searching three computers from the home. But didn't he contact them via phone?

Probably looking to see if he called anyone from an ad. The LISK first found them, IMO, via their ads. Maybe even set up a date under a different personality and then no-showed...just so he could get a good look at them...maybe even study their habits, etc.

 

[Just K]

Well, I know where he was taking his culinary classes.
http://www.starcareeracademy.com/

Same logo on this site as on his chef's jacket.
http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2013/03/28/news/web_photos/Roth_Walk_04A102216--300x300.jpg



Location Offering Program

Below are the campuses which offer Professional and Commercial Cooking Programs. Click on the campus to learn more about consumer information.

Manhattan, NY
Long Island, NY
Philadelphia, PA
Newark, NJ


Here is the Long Island location:
http://www.starcareeracademy.com/syosset.php

https://www.google.com/search?q=125...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

[NoviceSleuth]

Well, I know where he was taking his culinary classes.
http://www.starcareeracademy.com/
Same logo on this site as on his chef's jacket.
http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2013/03/28/news/web_photos/Roth_Walk_04A102216--300x300.jpg



Location Offering Program

Below are the campuses which offer Professional and Commercial Cooking Programs. Click on the campus to learn more about consumer information.

Manhattan, NY
Long Island, NY
Philadelphia, PA
Newark, NJ


Here is the Long Island location:
http://www.starcareeracademy.com/syosset.php

https://www.google.com/search?q=125...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

This institute offers alot more that just "culinary classes".

 

[Just K]

One article said white van with brown panels - sorry, not sure which one!

Here it is: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/li_cop_and_drown_faker_suicidal_7smH9sM0EbYVry3yUASO7K
"...ordered her to climb in his wood-paneled white van, Nassau police said."

 

[CriminalMinds]

Well, I know where he was taking his culinary classes.
http://www.starcareeracademy.com/

Same logo on this site as on his chef's jacket.
http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2013/03/28/news/web_photos/Roth_Walk_04A102216--300x300.jpg



Location Offering Program

Below are the campuses which offer Professional and Commercial Cooking Programs. Click on the campus to learn more about consumer information.

Manhattan, NY
Long Island, NY
Philadelphia, PA
Newark, NJ


Here is the Long Island location:
http://www.starcareeracademy.com/syosset.php

https://www.google.com/search?q=125...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

also listed (but not for culinary) was EGG HARBOR TWNSHP, NJ

 

[Just K]

also listed (but not for culinary) was EGG HARBOR TWNSHP, NJ

Yep, i saw that. Made me wonder if he took some other type of courses back in the earlier 2000s. I had some info linking him to AC but somehow I don't seem to have it anymore. Probably in my older fried PC or in some deleted PM, here.

Just last week, before this story broke, I deleted old PMs to free up the mailbox Hearing nothing more about RR, I deleted the PMs about him. Anyone who may have those PMs (can't remember who I was messaging with) maybe you can forward them to me. I don't know if there was anything significant in those PMs but I could just kick myself for deleting them.

 

[Just K]

Found copies of the PMs...The foriegner & I found tons of info on RR. He has connections to Brooklyn, Freeport, SC, Central Florida, Islandia, Ny, etc...

I had to copy & paste the messages into a text doc. I can now go back through them, organize the info and see how it might relate to the recent abduction charges and possibly this case. I do know that he has relatives in both Freeport and Long Beach. Time to get working on all the info we found. (August 6, 2012)

 

[CriminalMinds]

Found copies of the PMs...The foriegner & I found tons of info on RR. He has connections to Brooklyn, Freeport, SC, Central Florida, Islandia, Ny, etc...

I had to copy & paste the messages into a text doc. I can now go back through them, organize the info and see how it might relate to the recent abduction charges and possibly this case. I do know that he has relatives in both Freeport and Long Beach. Time to get working on all the info we found. (August 6, 2012)

you and TF--sounds like a pair that can beat a full house

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Probably looking to see if he called anyone from an ad. The LISK first found them, IMO, via their ads. Maybe even set up a date under a different personality and then no-showed...just so he could get a good look at them...maybe even study their habits, etc.

Just a few thoughts.

I don't think he finds them through Craigslist. Just a gut feeling, but I think he finds the girls he hires on some site where he can search out his type very easily (like Sexyjobs, or something similar). I also think he sees many providers that he doesn't kill, or even intend to kill. And I believe that he's a repeat customer of the women he does kill. What I can't figure out is why he kills some, and doesn't kill others. My gut feeling has always been that this is a guy who feels very emasculated in his real life, so in this "fantasy world" he's created for himself, he's the master, the one with supreme control over even life and death. Perhaps he gets a rush from simply making the choice of which will live and which will die. Or, perhaps something triggers him to kill certain ones. Maybe they say something, do something, that threatens his vision of the fantasy. I don't know.

(I'm on massive doses of pain killers, so nobody hold me to these thoughts tomorrow. I might not even remember them.)

 

[carbuff]

The "serial killer" we had in our area a few years ago wasn't really into the killing. He was into really rough sex with choking and rape as elements, and he paid well for it. But once in a while it got out of hand, and being a smallish city, word got around that one or two of them hadn't been seen after last catering to him. They finally caught him when one of the women he picked up filed rape and assault charges against him.

I should say "accused" and "alleged" because as far as I know, he's never been charged with any of the murders and probably never will be. But since he's been locked up for the rape, we stopped having bodies found in wooded areas near the farm where he grew up...

My only point being that LISK might not be a killer per se.

(Either that or it takes several visits to build up to the level of trust he needs to fulfill his fantasy.)

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The "serial killer" we had in our area a few years ago wasn't really into the killing. He was into really rough sex with choking and rape as elements, and he paid well for it. But once in a while it got out of hand, and being a smallish city, word got around that one or two of them hadn't been seen after last catering to him. They finally caught him when one of the women he picked up filed rape and assault charges against him.

I should say "accused" and "alleged" because as far as I know, he's never been charged with any of the murders and probably never will be. But since he's been locked up for the rape, we stopped having bodies found in wooded areas near the farm where he grew up...

My only point being that LISK might not be a killer per se.

(Either that or it takes several visits to build up to the level of trust he needs to fulfill his fantasy.)

I've often thought the same thing, Carbuff. That he doesn't reach his ultimate goal unless the women trust him. I don't think he'd get the rush from just plucking someone off the street. The build up is a huge part of his fantasy, in my mind. The killing is just the climax. What truly puzzles me is the taunting afterwards in Melissa's case. He seemed to hold on to Melissa, psychologically, for a long time. That doesn't seem to be the case with the other 3 girls, at least that I'm aware of. It makes me wonder if he was emotionally close to Melissa. Which, of course, makes me think of Johnny Terry's comments about the older guy on LI that she hung out with.

All speculation, naturally. But it's stuff that I've turned over in my mind millions of times over the years.

Sure doesn't sound like the man I have in my mind would be responsible for Natasha's disappearance, does it? Hadn't thought of that until I just now typed it.

 

[carbuff]

I've often thought the same thing, Carbuff. That he doesn't reach his ultimate goal unless the women trust him. I don't think he'd get the rush from just plucking someone off the street. The build up is a huge part of his fantasy, in my mind. The killing is just the climax. What truly puzzles me is the taunting afterwards in Melissa's case. He seemed to hold on to Melissa, psychologically, for a long time. That doesn't seem to be the case with the other 3 girls, at least that I'm aware of. It makes me wonder if he was emotionally close to Melissa. Which, of course, makes me think of Johnny Terry's comments about the older guy on LI that she hung out with.

All speculation, naturally. But it's stuff that I've turned over in my mind millions of times over the years.

Sure doesn't sound like the man I have in my mind would be responsible for Natasha's disappearance, does it? Hadn't thought of that until I just now typed it.

Not unless she's known him for some time and was going out to the beach area for a job that we don't know about.

The taunting in Melissa's case makes me think that somehow or another she violated his rules for how the game was played, maybe by trying to escape or not being afraid or something?

 

[ps149]

The "serial killer" we had in our area a few years ago wasn't really into the killing. He was into really rough sex with choking and rape as elements, and he paid well for it. But once in a while it got out of hand, and being a smallish city, word got around that one or two of them hadn't been seen after last catering to him. They finally caught him when one of the women he picked up filed rape and assault charges against him.

I should say "accused" and "alleged" because as far as I know, he's never been charged with any of the murders and probably never will be. But since he's been locked up for the rape, we stopped having bodies found in wooded areas near the farm where he grew up...

My only point being that LISK might not be a killer per se.

(Either that or it takes several visits to build up to the level of trust he needs to fulfill his fantasy.)

Someone posted here a few years ago (I have to search for their post) that they thought the GB4 were placed along Ocean Parkway by people hired to cleanup the mess of one of their bosses VIP clients (or a relative of their boss).

I keep thinking about the Massapequa connection to this case.

Perhaps there isn't a serial killer but a serial discarder (does that make any sense?).

 

[PreciousDust]

Perhaps there isn't a serial killer but a serial discarder (does that make any sense?).

Hawk, and I, and probably others, have always said it's not serial killings but disposal of unfortunate endings to encounters in the sex-for-sale business - OD's, deaths via rough sex, etc. And that the reason LE never makes any "progress" on the case, and doesn't actively recruit info from the public, is because they know the whole story already and a full disclosure of it would involve some of their own people being part of the headlines.

 

[fieldnotes]

Hawk, and I, and probably others, have always said it's not serial killings but disposal of unfortunate endings to encounters in the sex-for-sale business - OD's, deaths via rough sex, etc. And that the reason LE never makes any "progress" on the case, and doesn't actively recruit info from the public, is because they know the whole story already and a full disclosure of it would involve some of their own people being part of the headlines.

As an aside to that, many police friends I have say that nowadays the force is so strict with drug testing, as well as alcohol even. Any incident involving drinking for example and you get sent to the "farm" (rehab) for a month. And for every member who is sent a Captain is rewarded in some form of kickback. Half of NYPD has been sent out there.

My point is that for a lot of these guys the only addiction they can have is sex. And it may even be something of the norm for cop culture.

 

[Samantha Spade]

Someone posted here a few years ago (I have to search for their post) that they thought the GB4 were placed along Ocean Parkway by people hired to cleanup the mess of one of their bosses VIP clients (or a relative of their boss).

I keep thinking about the Massapequa connection to this case.

Perhaps there isn't a serial killer but a serial discarder (does that make any sense?).

---------------------
PS149,
I also have that on my list of possibilities. He hid the first body..it wasn't found, so he figure it's a great hiding spot for the others.

Not knowing what LE knows, Not seeing the crime scene, and only working with various news reports ( remember, Dormer said he called in the FBI because he suspected they had a serial killer, and the FBI knows how to work with the media in order to manipulate the bad guy(s) so we cannot count on news reports being factual.) I cannot rule out anything because there is so much I don't know. But I do believe Melissa B's mother's statement thather younger daughter received those threatening calls. so to me that shows the killer is one sick sadistic SOB right there. AND their lawyer referred to Melissa's killer as a Hannibal Lector which made me think lone sk at first, UNTIL I read about the Carina Saunders case, which involved some sick, sadistic, SOBs who tortured and mutilated ( cut off the young woman's feet while she was still alive and made other women watch in order to intimidate them into complying with their prostitution and drug trafficking demands.) they then dismembered Carina's body, put the body parts in a duffel bag and dumped it behind a convenience store. So that case right there shattered my belief that the LISK could ONLY be a lone serial killer, such as Joel Rifkin or Bundy.

 

[twocuriouscats]

I've often thought the same thing, Carbuff. That he doesn't reach his ultimate goal unless the women trust him. I don't think he'd get the rush from just plucking someone off the street. The build up is a huge part of his fantasy, in my mind. The killing is just the climax. What truly puzzles me is the taunting afterwards in Melissa's case. He seemed to hold on to Melissa, psychologically, for a long time. That doesn't seem to be the case with the other 3 girls, at least that I'm aware of. It makes me wonder if he was emotionally close to Melissa. Which, of course, makes me think of Johnny Terry's comments about the older guy on LI that she hung out with.

BBM
Melissa's mom believes he kept her for awhile. If she was there knowing he was calling her sister, he would have gotten two times the fun with the taunts with Melissa watching. That kinda makes sense to me 'cause after the call where he said he killed her he never called again.


RSBM

 

[Just K]

Someone posted here a few years ago (I have to search for their post) that they thought the GB4 were placed along Ocean Parkway by people hired to cleanup the mess of one of their bosses VIP clients (or a relative of their boss).

I keep thinking about the Massapequa connection to this case.

Perhaps there isn't a serial killer but a serial discarder (does that make any sense?).

And, there is nothing to suggest that the killer is not also a SOB...be it a VIP client, a relative of the boss or even one of the bosses himself.

But, the way that the GB4 were placed in burlap bags, left under trees and near the ocean could suggest that the "discarder" is religious yet conflicted. It's almost as if he wants to give them a hair shirt, as a form of penance, but then give them a somewhat peaceful resting place. These two facts, re: the manner of death and disposal and the disposal site, have never seemed to be compatible with simply a brutal/sadistic killer. Either the killer has a definite split in his personality or there is one killer and someone else to cleanup after him.

Those two Shulman brothers come to mind:

Younger brother of NY gal hooker serial killer Robert Shulman,gets ...
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/alt.true-crime/ArTW17bVwvU
Dec 8, 1999 – RIVERHEAD, N.Y. (AP) The brother of serial killer Robert Shulman ... Barry Shulman, 41, of Long Beach, admitted he unlawfully disposed of ...

 

[carbuff]

In a lot of ways, professional disposal fits the evidence better than a psychopath killing for his own pleasure.