Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

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Has anyone ever seen this before? I found this channel on YouTube. It’s rather odd. There are some random clips up there regarding different aspects of the case, including recorded conversations and also screen shots of text messages, between this person and Pak. They have a disdain for John Ray the attorney. It seems the person running the channel may have worked for him at some point. If this has been posted before my apologies. Just thought I’d share here. One of the most interesting things I saw on this page was a photo of Shannon’s phone records from the day before her death. There are several calls to Pak back and forth but the one I find most compelling is the phone call she makes to a CVS at 2:55am just 2 hours before her 911 call. I don’t recall this ever being discussed. I live on Long Island and I’m very familiar with that area. In fact I’ve visited that CVS a few times because it was one of the only 24/hour Cvs’s for a while. What in the world could she have been looking for at a cvs at that time?that cvs is back on the mainland, nowhere near oak beach. She would’ve had to have been driven there. Most calls are to her boyfriend. Pak, some toll free number and the cvs and finally 911


https://youtube.com/channel/UCdMmGGOnPtn6n9JDfjYN65Q

The listing of calls, is could very well be accurate. It is not a copy of a bill, but based on the phone company printout.

Regarding CVS.
Shannan wanted to go to a pharmacy that night. Pak, would not drive her, so Brewer did. She purchased a prescription (who was the Doctor and what was prescribed?) some Lube and playing cards.
Since we know this is true, I feel pretty confident the call listing is accurate.
 
The listing of calls, is could very well be accurate. It is not a copy of a bill, but based on the phone company printout.

At whose request, do you think, would the phone company print that out for? I'm guessing they'd print it out for Shannan Gilbert, or for a legal entity representing her estate - and for nobody else. I'd guess with almost 100% certainty that it is a hand-typed account of Shannan's phone record with the typist adding what they think are the relevant details of the 911 call. A forgery, in other words, something that looks official but isn't. I'm ready to change my mind, though, if anyone can provide information on the provenance of that list.
 
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That's a photo of someone's hand-typed and probably imaginary listing of phone calls. Phone companies do not show 911 calls on bills; they are non-billable calls which are considered sensitive information. Interestingly, this same forgery was used on some 48 Hours thing on the case, showing that people can be so, so easily fooled. The 911 call happened, but no phone bills would show it.

Will 911 show on Dialed Calls list? - Verizon Community
https://www.reddit.com/r/verizon/comments/a0x6oo/a_question_for_knowledgeable_people_about_911/

Perhaps it doesn't show up on the customer's bill, but it can show up on Verizon's records that they provide to LE? Just wondering.
 
Perhaps it doesn't show up on the customer's bill, but it can show up on Verizon's records that they provide to LE? Just wondering.

Oh, I'm sure Verizon (or whoever the carrier was) provided info to LE if they bothered asking for it, but I doubt a Websleuther would have access to it (or that it would look like that).
 
Oh, I'm sure Verizon (or whoever the carrier was) provided info to LE if they bothered asking for it, but I doubt a Websleuther would have access to it (or that it would look like that).

I'm skeptical, too, though it appears it was a YouTube account that posted it. I'd like to think there's an insider with a conscience willing to leak such information, but that seems unlikely. If only there were some good hackers.... Just kidding.
 
Oh, I'm sure Verizon (or whoever the carrier was) provided info to LE if they bothered asking for it, but I doubt a Websleuther would have access to it (or that it would look like that).

You never know who could have access to things. Even web-sleuthers might.
'Leaks'; 'Tips'; ' Misplaced Copies' and other unofficial releases of documents do occur sometimes.

In a situation, where there are SCPD and Defendant and Plaintiff lawyers and Courts involved. many copies, both virtual and real will exist, handled by many people.
 
In a situation, where there are SCPD and Defendant and Plaintiff lawyers and Courts involved. many copies, both virtual and real will exist, handled by many people.

Yes, I agree with that, but the original poster said "here's a photo of Shannan's phone records". It's not a photo of a phone bill, as 911 calls do not appear on phone bills, and I don't believe the phone company or any other legitimate party prepared that "record"; as far as I'm concerned, unless its' provenance is established, it's as fake as a three-dollar (phone) bill.
 
Yes, I agree with that, but the original poster said "here's a photo of Shannan's phone records". It's not a photo of a phone bill, as 911 calls do not appear on phone bills, and I don't believe the phone company or any other legitimate party prepared that "record"; as far as I'm concerned, unless its' provenance is established, it's as fake as a three-dollar (phone) bill.

You may be right to be skeptical.
However there is independent verification of the visit to the CVS, and the calls to MP. Mostly by MP himself.
Nobody from SCPD has denied the validity of this printout either.

What specifically are you skeptical about? Do you have any basis for your skepticism?
 
Nobody from SCPD has denied the validity of this printout either.
I'm sure nobody from SCPD has verified it either.

What specifically are you skeptical about? Do you have any basis for your skepticism?
What about that list of phone calls suggests that it came from the phone company? The fact that somebody says so? The 911 call can happen, the drive to the drugstore can happen, that's got nothing to do with whether that list is from a legitimate source or the fever dream of a Websleuther. Because we know that 911 calls do not appear on phone bills, and because we know that information about 911 calls is considered sensitive information, I feel that pending verification of its authenticity it's very likely the fever dream of a Websleuther.
 
Funny how stories get started, though. Here's an old link from a poster who hasn't posted in a while:
Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2
The poster says:

"Alex found out when he received Shannan's last
phone bill - he saw a 911 call for 23 minutes."


We know he didn't.
 
Funny how stories get started, though. Here's an old link from a poster who hasn't posted in a while:
Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2
The poster says:

"Alex found out when he received Shannan's last
phone bill - he saw a 911 call for 23 minutes."


We know he didn't.

That post makes a lot of sense in some ways…but it also says Hackett called Mari from Pak’s phone, wasn’t Hackett shown to have made those calls because they appeared on his own phone records in the end?
 
That post makes a lot of sense in some ways…but it also says Hackett called Mari from Pak’s phone, wasn’t Hackett shown to have made those calls because they appeared on his own phone records in the end?

To the best of my recollection, those calls were made from Hackett's wife's phone.
 
Objective facts (not media spun narrative):
Shannan travelled to OB.
She went missing and was later discovered deceased in OB.
Shannan, Michael Pak and Alex Diaz all worked for Joseph Ruis.
Shannan was arrested twice while in the employment of Ruis.
Joseph Ruis was investigated for a year by HCPO and arrested in 2009.
Ruis used sex workers to move product.
He made bail, was indicted in April 2010 and was not taken into custody until June 2010 when he pled to a 5 year sentence (of which he served 2 years).
The entire narrative has been twisted from Day 1 and media ate it up.
State and federal informants are used often.
A deranged serial killer hunting for sex workers is much more profitable than actually reading thru confusing legalese motion trials and court filings.
OB has a disproportionate amount of drug activity going back decades.
There are no tapes from the gate.
We do not know who may have come and gone.
But we do know that Shannan was scheduled in court w Ruis but never got a chance to speak.
After Ruis was let out, he relocated to California and began distributing narcotics cross country up and down the northeast.
He has since been arrested again in California along w a man in New Hampsire.
 
As a co-defendant; maybe SG was arranging a deal with the prosecution, and Ruis found out?
Don't you think that if SG was arranging a deal with the prosecution, that the prosecution would go after her killer (you imply Ruis) with great anger and malice?
 
Don't you think that if SG was arranging a deal with the prosecution, that the prosecution would go after her killer (you imply Ruis) with great anger and malice?
Not if Ruis flipped for the Feds (which would explain how he got off w 2 years).
 
Not if Ruis flipped for the Feds (which would explain how he got off w 2 years).

You are saying that Ruis had Shannan killed, to avoid prosecution, then he flips to the prosecution, to get leniency on the original charge, and the prosecution ignores the murder case completely?

How is that a win for the prosecution. What did Ruis give or who did he flip on that was so important, that the Feds would not care about a murder charge?
I am not aware of any case where Ruis, after Shannan's death, was a witness for the prosecution. Ruis would have to have been a witness for the Feds, if as you say he flipped.
 
You are saying that Ruis had Shannan killed, to avoid prosecution, then he flips to the prosecution, to get leniency on the original charge, and the prosecution ignores the murder case completely?

How is that a win for the prosecution. What did Ruis give or who did he flip on that was so important, that the Feds would not care about a murder charge?
I am not aware of any case where Ruis, after Shannan's death, was a witness for the prosecution. Ruis would have to have been a witness for the Feds, if as you say he flipped.
I'm only looking at the timeline of events. Shannan is arrested in 2007 (and also 2008 I believe). Both arrests are while she is employed by Ruis, along with Pak and Diaz.
By 2008 Ruis was already being investigated by Hudson County PO for a large cocaine distribution ring that utilized limo services and escorts from services listed under three names to move his product. He utilized a large number of shell companies LLCs (and a Kebab restaurant!) to launder 3 million per year. This is only the cash he actually tried to claim as legit. At the end of this year long investigation, he is arrested. He, Shannan and one other co-defendant are listed. Shannan is not arrested when Ruis' businesses and homes are raided. She's just listed as a co-defendant at the indictment months later.
Ruis makes cash bail very quickly after his arrest and is not indicted until April 2010, still not detained. May 2010 Shannan is gone. June 2010 Ruis forges a trial and takes a plea for highly reduced charges and is sentenced to 5 years in federal prison. I think Shannan was strong armed by Hudson County to testify against Ruis.
The charges against Ruis were big. This was not a street pimp slinging coke. His business was set up (imo by a partner) very intelligently and he was moving alot of weight. If im a fed and I'm looking at someone like Ruis, Shannan is small potatos. I want to know who's above Ruis. To get that information I need to offer Ruis something so he'll tell me. But me, I dont have that information, i dont know what Ruis gave up. But it was enough to get him out in 2 years. And, to add to that, in 2012 Ruis filed a case against the Hudson County Prosecutor's Office naming DeFazio, the main prosecutor, as defendent. Ruis claimed he was owed 300k for goods and services rendered to HCPO. What goods and services did Ruis supply? I'm going to guess it wasn't 300k worth of shish-kebabs.
If you look up Ruis now, you'll find he served his term in federal prison, was released after 2 years, and moved to the West Coast where he began trafficking again - back to the North East Coast. The case transcripts in that newest case are borderline comical.

Im only proposing another lens through which to view Shannan's case. Im not contesting any other theories or claiming I know all the facts.
But I do know that Ruis was not detained when Shannan went missing. Shannan was listed in the original case as a co-defendant w Ruis not just for soliciting/prostitution. She was being charged, along w him, w manufacturing, possession and distribution. I don't think it's a far stretch to assume that NJ prosecutors could have convinced Shannan it was in her best interest to continue working for Ruis while also acting as a CI.
I don't think she or Pak actually stopped working for Ruis - I think Pak floated the story that he and Shannan working independently in order to distance himself from Ruis. In Ray's deposition of Pak Ray directly asks Pak if Shannan was involved with any members of NJ law enforcement sexually and also as an informant.

And during the time between Ruis' arrest and his plea deal, he was a free man. Feds could have (should have if they were at all competant) approached him to get to bigger players. At the very least who was supplying Ruis?
So, yes, like I said originally, I do think Ruis flipped for the feds.
So that would mean Shannan was working as a CI for NJ thinking she's still working for Ruis, meanwhile Ruis knows Shannan is going to testify against him, plus he's got the security net of a federal deal. It gets tangled up but I think it's a possibility.
As an aside, there is no way Shannan would've agreed to travel to some new client's house all the way in OB. This was a Friday night in Manhattan. She would not have been lacking for customers. And Brewer could have picked from hundreds of outcall escorts that were all within a radius of 15 to 30 minutes of him. Yet he choses Shannan, who is supposedly in Manhattan and wont arrive for hours. Logically it makes no sense on Brewer's part (unless he knew Shannan and Pak previously thru Ruis and knew that they provided more than sex).
The only way Shannan would've accepted that job (which according to Pak was $350/$400) was if there was something other than sex involved that would've increased the money, like the kind of jobs Ruis handled. Ruis wasn't selling $350 outcalls.
If Ruis knew Shannan was working as a CI against him and he had her and Pak go out to OB for what they thought would be a drop off (maybe sex was an included comp but Ruis was not laundering 3 mil a year from outcalls for a few hundred dollars - in fact his records showed credit card charges for 30k and one account for 100k. That's not sex) - if Ruis found out Shannan was a CI, sent her out to OB (remember, he's a cash bail free man at this point), she could've been confronted, if she was wearing a wire she could've been literally running for her life. When CI's are made they have a specific person to call to get help. She could've called that person (possibly while in the bathroom). Maybe her contact didnt answer and then out of panic she just called 911. That could've been the reason why the call lasted so long and why they won't release it. She would've tried to explain she was an informant, she was due to testify in a month against Ruis, her cover has been blown and now they're going to kill me.
I wouldn't want that call getting out if I were anywhere near that case.
Again, I'm not arguing. I'm putting out a possibility.
 
I'm only looking at the timeline of events. Shannan is arrested in 2007 (and also 2008 I believe). Both arrests are while she is employed by Ruis, along with Pak and Diaz.
By 2008 Ruis was already being investigated by Hudson County PO for a large cocaine distribution ring that utilized limo services and escorts from services listed under three names to move his product. He utilized a large number of shell companies LLCs (and a Kebab restaurant!) to launder 3 million per year. This is only the cash he actually tried to claim as legit. At the end of this year long investigation, he is arrested. He, Shannan and one other co-defendant are listed. Shannan is not arrested when Ruis' businesses and homes are raided. She's just listed as a co-defendant at the indictment months later.
Ruis makes cash bail very quickly after his arrest and is not indicted until April 2010, still not detained. May 2010 Shannan is gone. June 2010 Ruis forges a trial and takes a plea for highly reduced charges and is sentenced to 5 years in federal prison. I think Shannan was strong armed by Hudson County to testify against Ruis.
The charges against Ruis were big. This was not a street pimp slinging coke. His business was set up (imo by a partner) very intelligently and he was moving alot of weight. If im a fed and I'm looking at someone like Ruis, Shannan is small potatos. I want to know who's above Ruis. To get that information I need to offer Ruis something so he'll tell me. But me, I dont have that information, i dont know what Ruis gave up. But it was enough to get him out in 2 years. And, to add to that, in 2012 Ruis filed a case against the Hudson County Prosecutor's Office naming DeFazio, the main prosecutor, as defendent. Ruis claimed he was owed 300k for goods and services rendered to HCPO. What goods and services did Ruis supply? I'm going to guess it wasn't 300k worth of shish-kebabs.
If you look up Ruis now, you'll find he served his term in federal prison, was released after 2 years, and moved to the West Coast where he began trafficking again - back to the North East Coast. The case transcripts in that newest case are borderline comical.

Im only proposing another lens through which to view Shannan's case. Im not contesting any other theories or claiming I know all the facts.
But I do know that Ruis was not detained when Shannan went missing. Shannan was listed in the original case as a co-defendant w Ruis not just for soliciting/prostitution. She was being charged, along w him, w manufacturing, possession and distribution. I don't think it's a far stretch to assume that NJ prosecutors could have convinced Shannan it was in her best interest to continue working for Ruis while also acting as a CI.
I don't think she or Pak actually stopped working for Ruis - I think Pak floated the story that he and Shannan working independently in order to distance himself from Ruis. In Ray's deposition of Pak Ray directly asks Pak if Shannan was involved with any members of NJ law enforcement sexually and also as an informant.

And during the time between Ruis' arrest and his plea deal, he was a free man. Feds could have (should have if they were at all competant) approached him to get to bigger players. At the very least who was supplying Ruis?
So, yes, like I said originally, I do think Ruis flipped for the feds.
So that would mean Shannan was working as a CI for NJ thinking she's still working for Ruis, meanwhile Ruis knows Shannan is going to testify against him, plus he's got the security net of a federal deal. It gets tangled up but I think it's a possibility.
As an aside, there is no way Shannan would've agreed to travel to some new client's house all the way in OB. This was a Friday night in Manhattan. She would not have been lacking for customers. And Brewer could have picked from hundreds of outcall escorts that were all within a radius of 15 to 30 minutes of him. Yet he choses Shannan, who is supposedly in Manhattan and wont arrive for hours. Logically it makes no sense on Brewer's part (unless he knew Shannan and Pak previously thru Ruis and knew that they provided more than sex).
The only way Shannan would've accepted that job (which according to Pak was $350/$400) was if there was something other than sex involved that would've increased the money, like the kind of jobs Ruis handled. Ruis wasn't selling $350 outcalls.
If Ruis knew Shannan was working as a CI against him and he had her and Pak go out to OB for what they thought would be a drop off (maybe sex was an included comp but Ruis was not laundering 3 mil a year from outcalls for a few hundred dollars - in fact his records showed credit card charges for 30k and one account for 100k. That's not sex) - if Ruis found out Shannan was a CI, sent her out to OB (remember, he's a cash bail free man at this point), she could've been confronted, if she was wearing a wire she could've been literally running for her life. When CI's are made they have a specific person to call to get help. She could've called that person (possibly while in the bathroom). Maybe her contact didnt answer and then out of panic she just called 911. That could've been the reason why the call lasted so long and why they won't release it. She would've tried to explain she was an informant, she was due to testify in a month against Ruis, her cover has been blown and now they're going to kill me.
I wouldn't want that call getting out if I were anywhere near that case.
Again, I'm not arguing. I'm putting out a possibility.

Really insightful, Girl Interrupted. You bring up some very interesting points, such as Shannan possibly being a CI and disclosed this on the 911 call. All the more reason to have that 911 call made public.

Now I do not think she was wearing a wire, as that can be problematic for a sex worker.
Secondly if she was a co-defendant with Ruis, why would he worry about her turning on him? She would have turned before she was charged as a co-defendant. I really do not think the HCPD needed her testimony and if she was a CI they would have never charged her in the first place.
 
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