Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert, 24, missing May 2010, found Oak Beach Dec 2011 #3

[Betty P]

CuriousCricket said "This testimony has deepened my belief that the reason SG went berserk that evening was because RH had arrived as a guest at the party while SG and the host had left the home. When she came in and saw RH, she likely knew she was in grave danger -- IMO."

I had never considered that. Great Point. Does anybody know if RH knew Joseph Brewer, the party host? Had Brewer ever been to RH's home for a party?

John Ray alluded to this possibility in one of his press conferences several months ago. He said that guys like Rex, often like to be part of groups of others with the same interests. He said that's probably why he joined the swingers group(s).

Police chief partied with Gilgo 'serial killer at crack-fueled motel bash'

DISGRACED ex-Long Island police chief James Burke once partied with alleged Gilgo Beach killer Rex Heuermann decades ago at a drug-fuelled motel gathering, a woman has claimed in a new sworn affida…

www.the-sun.com

This former SW shared her story about meeting Rex H at another type of weekend party on Long Island.
Heuermann is hard to mistake for any other stranger soliciting sex workers. If he was doing swinger parties in Manhattan as well as attending motel sex parties on Long Island, it's possible he knew Brewer and attended his sex party as well.

Shannan may have been familiar with his hobby of "hunting" women (as it was alleged he was witnessed doing by the cab driver on Long Island and at the sex party at his own home), the same thing could have happened to Shannan. It could explain why she was terrified to go outside.

 

[WINDSOR]

One other thing that bothered me about SG’s disappearance is that I am under the impression that the SCPD didn’t put an adequate amount of effort into searching for her. After speaking to the neighbors and witnesses who encountered and heard Shannon and after the arrival of one I do think blood hounds, much better search lighting, helicopters and sonars could have been deployed to have improved their chances of finding her, hopefully alive, or recovering her remains so that a more helpful autopsy and forensic investigation could have been performed in a timely manner. I think of this too in light of reading several articles online that state at least 2 residents called 911 for her and ultimately her remains were found not far from PH’s house. This implies to me that her distance was not far enough away from residential areas that she could not have been located much more quickly, or at least in a timely manner, and that perhaps she could have even been saved. LE also had access to trained emergency, medical and mental health professionals and interventionist that could have used megaphones to communicate with her, even if one sidedly, to build enough trust to guide her to them, and out of the marsh, with the sound of their voice and any large lighting equipment flare guns and sirens had their disposal to guide her.

I understand and am not trying to downplay thar there was concern of first responders and LE drowning while searching in the marsh but they do have other have organizations, including those based on conservation in that area, that could have been a big help consultation wise and perhaps even provide equipment and training to prevent such deaths from occurring as they searched to locate SG.

One of the things that does sadden me most about SG’s case is that I do think she could have been saved or at least located much sooner, particularly after the witnesses and other 911 callers were spoken too, so that her and her family could get the answers and justice they deserve after fighting for so long for LE and the media to even care about the fact that she was missing and to take her case seriously. All they wanted to do, like any other concerned family searching for their beloved, was bring her home safe, alive into their loving arms.

I have always wondered, if the SCPD officer who arrived at Oak Beach (after Michael Pak left), and was met by Gus Coletti at the entrance gate, did much of an investigation and what was in his report.

It is my understanding that he spoke to Gus for a few minutes, drove around and left. I do not believe he interviewed any of the other 911 callers. As well I do not believe he called for any other resources to search for Shannan.

 

[Betty P]

I have always wondered, if the SCPD officer who arrived at Oak Beach (after Michael Pak left), and was met by Gus Coletti at the entrance gate, did much of an investigation and what was in his report.

It is my understanding that he spoke to Gus for a few minutes, drove around and left. I do not believe he interviewed any of the other 911 callers. As well I do not believe he called for any other resources to search for Shannan.

That was my impression, too. I'll have to go back and watch the documentary about Shannan and her mom, but as I recall, she's the one who pushed them to investigate. Most of that happened days after Shannan disappeared.

 

[Keith417]

CuriousCricket said "This testimony has deepened my belief that the reason SG went berserk that evening was because RH had arrived as a guest at the party while SG and the host had left the home. When she came in and saw RH, she likely knew she was in grave danger -- IMO."

I had never considered that. Great Point. Does anybody know if RH knew Joseph Brewer, the party host? Had Brewer ever been to RH's home for a party?

I’m sure it can be verified that RH and JB knew each other and if true it will probably come out at the trial.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I’m sure it can be verified that RH and JB knew each other and if true it will probably come out at the trial.

Hopefully. I'd guess that people involved in that lifestyle who did party with RH are not eager to have it known.

 

[Keith417]

I just find it so hard to believe that SG was not a victim of RH just bc that would be too coincidentally that she was on the phone with 911 saying they are trying to kill me and then ending up dead and when looking for her they discover a ton of dead bodies of prositute women who worked on back page and Craigslist like her.. the odds of that happening are very telling . If what the cab driver is saying is true than SG phone call to 911 makes more sense to me that she had every reason to fear for her life and not just rambling bc she was in a drug induced paranoia delusion bc she already escaped Rex before and now she knew she was in great danger.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Shannan, was treated by Dr. Hackett before she disappeared. He should be the one giving a statement to LE regarding Shanna's mental and physical condition. As part of her treatment, I believe the Dr. gave her some medication and or an injection.

If Shannan was under any duress or not capable to be released from care, any competent Doctor would not allow her leave by herself. So either she was in excellent physical and mental condition, and allowed to leave, or........she was released into the care of someone like Michael Pak. This would make sense as MP was Shannan's driver and security.

Either,
1) Dr. Hackett did harm to Shannan or,

2) Shannan was released to Michael Pak, and he did harm her, or

3) Shannan was lucid and healthy and allowed to leave on her own, and she encountered someone who did her harm, or

4) Shannan, lucid and physically healthy, based on Dr. Hackett's analysis of the situation, wandered in to the swamp all on her own and met her demise as the official SCPD statements. If she was lucid and healthy why would she do that?

Cannot be any other alternatives in my opinion.

#2 Sounds most likely based on what public statements Hackett and Pak have made.

Pak seemed to be most tied to SG, most motive to cause harm/most likely to know her behavior … strange that he was not too concerned that his “employer” was missing when he drove away knowing they were in remote area not near shops or transport. Wonder, did he get paid?, if not, was he angry? Maybe SG didn’t get paid, or ran off with Pak’s money? SG also brought him to attention of LE which might be why he left.
Can understand that view at time might be - she’s adult, might be wanting to avoid LE, might have run off with drug or money, might have been at very least intoxicated, under influence. There was no evidence at the time to suggest that she was under threat.

Did she run off to hide, rest, expecting to return later to collect her pay? Get wet, too cold? Or otherwise too ill to move?

If not Pak,
Aware her sibling MH condition worsened over time and behavior became extreme leading to life in prison, could SG also possibly struggling more than previously? The substances using that night, lack of sleep/fatigue impacted her more than previously leading to situation that night? Cannot exclude MH as contributing factor to unexplained paranoia.

 

[WINDSOR]

Pak's behavior is special, in that he claims he left Oak Beach without Shannan. One possible reason could be that if RH was present at the party, Pak might have the sense to leave for his own safety.

All this speculation could be cleared up if we knew if RH was at the party. Brewer would have known, Pak would have known, and RH would have known. None of them will likely say a word. Too bad the video of the entrance gate at Oak Beach for that day was lost.

For me certainly, enough cause for Law Enforcement to re-interview Pak, Brewer and Hackett.

MOO

 

[Betty P]

Pak's behavior is special, in that he claims he left Oak Beach without Shannan. One possible reason could be that if RH was present at the party, Pak might have the sense to leave for his own safety.

All this speculation could be cleared up if we knew if RH was at the party. Brewer would have known, Pak would have known, and RH would have known. None of them will likely say a word. Too bad the video of the entrance gate at Oak Beach for that day was lost.

For me certainly, enough cause for Law Enforcement to re-interview Pak, Brewer and Hackett.

MOO

The fact that the video from the front gate of Oak Beach disappeared is one of the big red flags in this case. Why would that evidence be destroyed or hidden if Shannan's death was only an accident? What and who was on that video that the homeowners didn't want LE to see?

Those who claim her death was an accident need to explain why that video is missing.

 

[CuriousCricket]

The fact that the video from the front gate of Oak Beach disappeared is one of the big red flags in this case. Why would that evidence be destroyed or hidden if Shannan's death was only an accident? What and who was on that video that the homeowners didn't want LE to see?

Those who claim her death was an accident need to explain why that video is missing.

Will discussion of SG be part of the RH trial? Or will the prosecution be required to stick to just the facts of the cases being tried at that time?

IIRC, according to the records, only a couple of men were supposed to be present in the house the evening SG disappeared? So, the disappearance of the video actually hides the number and identities of the people who might have been there. Very suggestive of a lot to hide (and protect), in my opinion.

Another point that I have recently seen in a new light is the appearance of Rudy Giuliani at the Heuermann home. Initially, I saw it as an old man with a new tv show to promote so he was grabbing all the photo ops he could.

However, after learning that the next door neighbor of J Brewer was the childhood friend of Giuliani and a disgraced Catholic priest, well, my mind has gone to a darker explanation: perhaps power reminding everyone that powerful figures were hovering . . .

This seems to be such a far-reaching group of cases, do we think all the facts will ever be known? I certainly have my doubts and my imagination wanders down dark paths.

www.yahoo.com/news/rudy-giuliani-makes-bizarre-appearance-214441370.html

 

[Betty P]

Will discussion of SG be part of the RH trial? Or will the prosecution be required to stick to just the facts of the cases being tried at that time?

IIRC, according to the records, only a couple of men were supposed to be present in the house the evening SG disappeared? So, the disappearance of the video actually hides the number and identities of the people who might have been there. Very suggestive of a lot to hide (and protect), in my opinion.

Another point that I have recently seen in a new light is the appearance of Rudy Giuliani at the Heuermann home. Initially, I saw it as an old man with a new tv show to promote so he was grabbing all the photo ops he could.

However, after learning that the next door neighbor of J Brewer was the childhood friend of Giuliani and a disgraced Catholic priest, well, my mind has gone to a darker explanation: perhaps power reminding everyone that powerful figures were hovering . . .

This seems to be such a far-reaching group of cases, do we think all the facts will ever be known? I certainly have my doubts and my imagination wanders down dark paths.

www.yahoo.com/news/rudy-giuliani-makes-bizarre-appearance-214441370.html

Suffolk Co. DA Ray Tierney has said previously that Shannan's death was "accidental" and not linked to Heuermann. He said that very early, not long after the arrest.

How Valerie Mack and Shannan Gilbert are connected to Gilgo Beach killings

Alleged killer Rex Heuermann was charged with the murders of Jessica Taylor and Sandra Costilla, but not in the deaths of two other women connected to the case.

www.newsweek.com

Suffolk County detectives said for a while that Gilbert was not one of Heuermann's victims. Suffolk County Police Department said Gilbert's death was not a murder and was "most likely an accident."

 

[Keith417]

The fact that the video from the front gate of Oak Beach disappeared is one of the big red flags in this case. Why would that evidence be destroyed or hidden if Shannan's death was only an accident? What and who was on that video that the homeowners didn't want LE to see?

Those who claim her death was an accident need to explain why that video is missing.

Nailed it! why would that footage be destroyed or loss if nothing bad happened?! If I lived in that community and the footage could clear me and my neighbors from any wrong doing I would 100% want to show those tapes. Especially after all the bad publicity oak beach residents received they should be throwing the tapes to the media and LE.

 

[WINDSOR]

It is my firm belief that the tapes were purposely deleted, to protect the guilty. Interesting the SCPD officer first on the scene did not request the tape immediately. I mean if you have numerous 911 calls, a missing woman, would not basic police procedure involve securing such evidence? The officer met Gus Coletti at the front gate where the camera was operating. Secondly who had access to the tape? Could not be more than a handful of people. I do believe it has been stated Dr. Hackett was one of those who had access.

 

[CuriousCricket]

It is my firm belief that the tapes were purposely deleted, to protect the guilty. Interesting the SCPD officer first on the scene did not request the tape immediately. I mean if you have numerous 911 calls, a missing woman, would not basic police procedure involve securing such evidence? The officer met Gus Coletti at the front gate where the camera was operating. Secondly who had access to the tape? Could not be more than a handful of people. I do believe it has been stated Dr. Hackett was one of those who had access.

Isn't it interesting that the "cover-up" appears to have started immediately? And perhaps with the lowest officer on the totem pole? Why? Poorly trained? or was the corruption so total even at that point, before all the bodies were located?

 

[snarast]

Isn't it interesting that the "cover-up" appears to have started immediately? And perhaps with the lowest officer on the totem pole? Why? Poorly trained? or was the corruption so total even at that point, before all the bodies were located?

It is one hot mess of a case.

Just starting with the 911 call - what to say? How could I even be sure it’s not been wilfully corrupted eliminating the presence of *priviledged* people of some sort.

Was it really beyond Burke’s capability to enlist a ”knee-deep in kddy-prn” hacker of his nasty ilk to fix that recording?

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Nailed it! why would that footage be destroyed or loss if nothing bad happened?! If I lived in that community and the footage could clear me and my neighbors from any wrong doing I would 100% want to show those tapes. Especially after all the bad publicity oak beach residents received they should be throwing the tapes to the media and LE.

according to: ‘Somebody's After Me:' Shannan Gilbert's Long-Secret 911 Calls Are Out. Listen Here

When LE arrived, Pak was gone and SG “gone” also Brewer gone. LE did not understand that SG was missing as there was no one to tell them that she was missing. Apparently they thought she left with Pak and situation resolved.
By time she was reported missing (2-3 days later in NJ) and investigation started from NJ, with expected slow response tapes were recorded over (typical).
Not seeing destroying video conspiracy based on NBC timeline.

IMO it’s Pak, dumped handbag looking for his pay & fatally injuring SG.
If not Pak … and accidental death, frantic dump of her own bag looking for drugs and overdose of substance trying to calm self down?

 

[snarast]

according to: ‘Somebody's After Me:' Shannan Gilbert's Long-Secret 911 Calls Are Out. Listen Here

When LE arrived, Pak was gone and SG “gone” also Brewer gone. LE did not understand that SG was missing as there was no one to tell them that she was missing. Apparently they thought she left with Pak and situation resolved.
By time she was reported missing (2-3 days later in NJ) and investigation started from NJ, with expected slow response tapes were recorded over (typical).
Not seeing destroying video conspiracy based on NBC timeline.

IMO it’s Pak, dumped handbag looking for his pay & fatally injuring SG.
If not Pak … and accidental death, frantic dump of her own bag looking for drugs and overdose of substance trying to calm self down?

Occam’s razor says Pak killed her because she was a liability and - quoting Bill Clinton - he did it because he could. And was likely furious.

Then Occam can’t rest easy knowing his words of wisdom are being constantly mistakenly applied in bizarre True Crime contexts.

Problems if MP was the culprit:

1. Why withhold 911 call for a decade. What connection to the Burke situaion would MP have? Trafficker of fresh meat?

2. Why would the recordings from the gate be destroyed - could MP just simply shoot the camera and then it was just thrown away? Assuming the data wasn’t stored in the cloud. Would he have the presence of mind to do so? If he killed her in a classic pimp-prostitute setting an example fashion he wouldn’t have reconned the place like that.

 

[Betty P]

Occam’s razor says Pak killed her because she was a liability and - quoting Bill Clinton - he did it because he could. And was likely furious.

Then Occam can’t rest easy knowing his words of wisdom are being constantly mistakenly applied in bizarre True Crime contexts.

Problems if MP was the culprit:

1. Why withhold 911 call for a decade. What connection to the Burke situaion would MP have? Trafficker of fresh meat?

2. Why would the recordings from the gate be destroyed - could MP just simply shoot the camera and then it was just thrown away? Assuming the data wasn’t stored in the cloud. Would he have the presence of mind to do so? If he killed her in a classic pimp-prostitute setting an example fashion he wouldn’t have reconned the place like that.

Withholding the 911 call was a big problem. It would still be buried had it not been for John Ray.

Re Burke: In his job, he probably learned a lot about the local trade in sex workers, esp those being driven out from NYC to Suffolk Co. He knew about Craigslist ads, too. It was his job. I assume there was a lot of it going on back then and still today. He and the officers would be somewhat familiar with the sex workers and pimps. There had to be an understanding for police to look the other way unless there was a serious problem.

So, yes, Burke or those who worked for him knew Pak. Pak probably drove other sw's besides Shannan.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

911 records in NY can be withheld for variety of reasons … including ongoing investigation, and legal proceedings.
Jon Ray started investigating SG disappearance in 2011 and filed a civil suit for damages against a person related to this in 2012 (apparently not allowed to discuss details in WS).
So, 911 call could/ should be legit withheld due to investigation and legal proceedings and not due to a conspiracy.

So it could be viewed as 911 call buried because of Jon Ray, and also un-buried because of Jon Ray. IMO.

 

[CuriousCricket]

according to: ‘Somebody's After Me:' Shannan Gilbert's Long-Secret 911 Calls Are Out. Listen Here

When LE arrived, Pak was gone and SG “gone” also Brewer gone. LE did not understand that SG was missing as there was no one to tell them that she was missing. Apparently they thought she left with Pak and situation resolved.
By time she was reported missing (2-3 days later in NJ) and investigation started from NJ, with expected slow response tapes were recorded over (typical).
Not seeing destroying video conspiracy based on NBC timeline.

IMO it’s Pak, dumped handbag looking for his pay & fatally injuring SG.
If not Pak … and accidental death, frantic dump of her own bag looking for drugs and overdose of substance trying to calm self down?

Doesn't that seem like an incredibly long response time? Gated community of at least fairly wealthy taxpayers and 3 911 calls from more than one person? The reporting from New Jersey and delayed knowledge seems logical, on the face of it. However, the very slow response time starts everything off as questionable.