Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert

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I believe that Shannan was an intended victim and that she saw something that made her 100% certain that the intent of those at jb’s were to kill her(and that includes her driver MP being involved if even just peripherally as a paid vessel to deliver the group their victim).
I believe that all hell broke loose when she escaped JB’s home and their hands were literally tied in being able to physically subdue and overcome her keeping her from leaving due to Shannan being able to successfully make that 911 call. It’s that call that caused the chaos that ensued. Were she not on the phone to 911 these men would have overpowered her and not let her leave the home..but due to the fact a dispatcher was on phone and with her having started the call while hiding they had no way to know if she’d already given the dispatcher the info of her location and names.. This literally paralyzed them and it is exactly what allowed her to escape.

Re:Gus at the front gate-Gus was sent to wait at that gate to deflect, misdirect, and attempt to lead LE away from what was actually occurring.
 
I believe that Shannan was an intended victim and that she saw something that made her 100% certain that the intent of those at jb’s were to kill her(and that includes her driver MP being involved if even just peripherally as a paid vessel to deliver the group their victim).
I believe that all hell broke loose when she escaped JB’s home and their hands were literally tied in being able to physically subdue and overcome her keeping her from leaving due to Shannan being able to successfully make that 911 call. It’s that call that caused the chaos that ensued. Were she not on the phone to 911 these men would have overpowered her and not let her leave the home..but due to the fact a dispatcher was on phone and with her having started the call while hiding they had no way to know if she’d already given the dispatcher the info of her location and names.. This literally paralyzed them and it is exactly what allowed her to escape.

Re:Gus at the front gate-Gus was sent to wait at that gate to deflect, misdirect, and attempt to lead LE away from what was actually occurring.


Then why would he call 911? Police didn't even know where she was calling from until he called.
 
Then why would he call 911? Police didn't even know where she was calling from until he called.

Plus, this case just doesn't fit the M.O. of the LISK. None of his other victims had a driver, I don't think the LISK would take that risk all of a sudden. And I've never bought into the group murder theory.

The only way I see JB as the killer is if he had her over to get to know her and let her get comfortable with him with the intention of killing her at a later date. But while she was there she discovered something.

Whatever happened to her, I don't think it's related to the LISK case. I want to think it was, but I don't.
 
Then why would he call 911? Police didn't even know where she was calling from until he called.

They didn't know that dispatch DID NOT know her location!! They hadnt a clue what Shannan had blabbed to the dispatcher.. Once she fled off Brewer's property the cover story was already being created and executed to as best as possible turnicate what a disastrous mess this chick had caused them.. She did the unthinkable and definitely the unexpected in that here she is a hooker, drug user and she against all odds called 911 for help.. IMO this is something they'd not counted on and not had happened prior due to their victims being criminals themselves in their being hookers, drug users, etc, etc.. It was always an advantage in that they would not seek to have LE involvement.. And what I mean by that is that when a woman's instincts kick in its long before the moment of their actual death.. Long before that moment do their instincts kick in overdrive saying ALERT!! SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG HERE!!.. At that moment when they are still somewhat of their own free will.. Up til the victim, Shannan NONE of those women had grabbed their phones and reached out to involve 911 and IMO that's because they too are the last ppl who want police involvement.. The killer(s) know that and they exploit that..

Shannon proved different!! She unlike the others upon their gutteral instincts, she did in fact do the unexpected, the unthinkable, SHANNAN LISTENED TO HER INSTINCTS AND IMMEDIATELY GRASPED OUT FOR HELP FROM THE MOST UNLIKELIEST OF PEOPLE, LE in her dialing 911..*

At that moment everything halted.. It was a game changer to say the least.. With her hiding when she initially began the 911 call it is my opinion that due To that fact JB&co. had no idea what information that Shannan had already given the dispatcher in those few moments prior to them realizing she was actually on the phone, connected with, and speaking to a LE dispatcher AND MOST IMPORTANTLY SHE WAS TELLING THAT DISPATCHER THAT THESE PEOPLE(and you damn well better believe that the ones she knew their names she was calling them out by name to the dispatcher) TELLING THE DISPATCHER THOSE PARTICULAR MEN WERE GOING TO KILL HER!!(we've been told you can hear both JB and MP saying "calmly" to Shannon that no, they're not trying to kill her).. This confirms that they knew AT THE VERY LEAST that Shannon was reporting to LE dispatch that they were trying to kill her.. And they're not having heard the very beginning of that convo were left having ZERO CLUE IF SHANNAN HAD ALREADY TOLD DISPATCH HER *EXACT LOCATION!!..*

So, you see they could not physically overpower her as there was a live/open call connected to dispatch that Shannan had likely already told her location and names as well.. This would keep them from being able to subdue her and she flees the residence of Brewer..

Once shannan had fled they had zero choice but to immediately attempt to counteract what a potentially disastrous mess Shannan had put them in.. IMO they had to assume the worst that Shannan had given dispatch her location thus that gave them very little time to take counteractive measures..

IMO this is where Gus, his 911 call, and his "story" come into play.. They had to invent an account that could and would contradict Shannan's claims to dispatch.. What better way than for them, themselves to call 911 dispatch for assistance with counteractive measures in hopes of undoing the mess this "hooker" was causing them(IMO hooker being one of the nicer words they'd use to describe Shannan)..

I'm not attempting to claim that what I'm purposing is fact and exactly how things happened that night/early morning.. None of us likely will ever know for certain what all happened on that fateful night/morning.. But IMO its one of the more plausible theories that seem to fit IMO rather than some that seem to be square pegs shoved into a round hole, repeatedly as if one day if it's shoved hard enough it will miraculously fit perfectly..*shakes head*..
But in the end it's just an opinion like all the many others in the LISK forum..

But it is my opinion that Shannan was DIFFERENT!!
And Shannan not only did the unthinkable and unexpected in her a "criminal" herself she sought out LE immediately upon her instincts overwhelmingly ALERTING, whereas the others did NOT.. IMO she fought so very hard to survive and to live and IMO she almost made it!! But IMO what she was up against was way too big, way too powerful.. Even more so than beyond what she ever could've imagined.. In the end she lost her life but not without one helluva a fight and IMO NOT without causing great pain and anxiety to those involved.. IMO so much so that it was after Shannan's murder that the last two victims(that we know of) were somehow convinced to not bring their cell phones.. This group had banked on exploiting the fact that the victims were "criminals" as well and used that to their advantage in UP UNTIL SHANNAN the victims did not attempt/or atleast were not able to actually make contact as Shannan did with LE dispatch..

IMO they'd be damned to see that ever happen again hence we saw the last two victims have that option totally taken out of the equation with their not even having their cell phones, period..

All jmo, tho!

**I just wanted to add that IMO Shannan very likely was NOT the only one of these victims to put up a helluva a fight for her life against this killer(s).. My only reason for speaking of Shannan as "the fighter" is that she, unlike the rest we have so much clearer of a picture of that fateful nights events.. Of course mostly due to that 23min 911 call.. Therefor I'm able to attempt to better piece together the events of that night whereas with the others we havent an inkling of how those murders unfolded the night they occurred.. Nonetheless I do believe in my heart that other of these girls did give this killer(s) one helluva a fight and IMO I see Melissa most likely to have been a little hell cat that literally fought very hard to the end.. So much so that whatever it was that she did resonated within the killer possibly being what led to his sadistic calls after her death.. IMO I see that possibly as heaping more punishment on Melissa for having possibly caused him so much pain and anguish in her fighting him for her life.. In his mind how dare she and he punished her further for those actions by attempting to inflict pain and anguish on her most closest loved ones.. Again that's jmo, as well, tho..
 
I believe that Shannan was an intended victim and that she saw something that made her 100% certain that the intent of those at jb’s were to kill her(and that includes her driver MP being involved if even just peripherally as a paid vessel to deliver the group their victim).
I believe that all hell broke loose when she escaped JB’s home and their hands were literally tied in being able to physically subdue and overcome her keeping her from leaving due to Shannan being able to successfully make that 911 call. It’s that call that caused the chaos that ensued. Were she not on the phone to 911 these men would have overpowered her and not let her leave the home..but due to the fact a dispatcher was on phone and with her having started the call while hiding they had no way to know if she’d already given the dispatcher the info of her location and names.. This literally paralyzed them and it is exactly what allowed her to escape.

Re:Gus at the front gate-Gus was sent to wait at that gate to deflect, misdirect, and attempt to lead LE away from what was actually occurring.
OMG SmoothOperator, That is brilliant Sleuthing. It makes such sense and explains everything, even the length of her call.

Your post should go in a theory thread, in BOLD.
 
I believe that Shannan was an intended victim and that she saw something that made her 100% certain that the intent of those at jb’s were to kill her(and that includes her driver MP being involved if even just peripherally as a paid vessel to deliver the group their victim).
I believe that all hell broke loose when she escaped JB’s home and their hands were literally tied in being able to physically subdue and overcome her keeping her from leaving due to Shannan being able to successfully make that 911 call. It’s that call that caused the chaos that ensued. Were she not on the phone to 911 these men would have overpowered her and not let her leave the home..but due to the fact a dispatcher was on phone and with her having started the call while hiding they had no way to know if she’d already given the dispatcher the info of her location and names.. This literally paralyzed them and it is exactly what allowed her to escape.

Re:Gus at the front gate-Gus was sent to wait at that gate to deflect, misdirect, and attempt to lead LE away from what was actually occurring.

on Gus...I totally disagree considering when asked by jj if he knew Brewer he said "he's not one of my favorite people"...which IMO he wouldn't say if he was in some sort of cahoots with Brewer.

http://jjfieldnotes.blogspot.com/2011/07/sunday-with-gus.html
 
Awesome!!!! Smooth Operator,

Your supposition matches mine. I have said it before Shannan saw or heard something in JB's home that terrified her; enough for her to risk jail, as she was partaking in criminal activity, to call the 911.

How many hookers, while at the john's place of residence call 911, especially when their driver is outside? (about as many drown in wetlands in May an hour before dawn.)

If JB is truthful when he says he never paid Shannan, that in itself is highly unusual as I understand the procedure is to get the money upfront or leave with your driver. Where is the money, if JB still has it how is that possible?

We do not know what GC said on his 911 call, was he saying something like MP said, 'a girl at a party was having a bad trip and we will take care of it no need to involve LE.'

SG's life ended in Oak Beach, that is where to focus.
 
I know many of us studied maps when we first started discussing this case and we saw the white pickup & also another vehicle parked on the side of the road near where remains were located....

well tonight I found a vehicle parked on Ocean Parkway directly across from where Gilbert's remains were found on Bing Maps and I'm not sure but it appears to be similar to a Chevy Avalanche type vehicle
 

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on Gus...I totally disagree considering when asked by jj if he knew Brewer he said "he's not one of my favorite people"...which IMO he wouldn't say if he was in some sort of cahoots with Brewer.

http://jjfieldnotes.blogspot.com/2011/07/sunday-with-gus.html

While I respect that you disagree with any, all, or some of a theory i posted.. in my personal opinion I find the above statement "if" even said not to be in any way indicative that some people are or are not in cahoots.. I mean IMO its obvious that members would want to distance themselves from another.. Why in the world would they want it to appear to the public and especially media(doubly so if we're talking investigative reporter) that two individuals or more were in no way related, pals, and definitely NOT in cahoots with.. It's also been said that he stated he didn't even know him?!?! So, exactly how is two people that "supposedly" don't even know each other, nor even know OF each other..Now according to a blogger he says that he didn't care for him?!? Kinda hard to "not care" for someone you supposedly don't even know or know of..

Pretty inconsistent for what should be such a cut and dry issue.. They don't know each other, they don't know of each other, they do know of each other and furthermore actually know each other atleast to an extent that they've got a definite opinion formed of dislike.. All of this has been stated so IMO we really don't know the truth about the relationship and to what extent that relationship is..

For me, personally that however is completely irrelevant and IMO has no bearing on the theory that I posted in that even if I were to believe just and only that one particular quote of which you posted with him saying "he doesn't care for him".. Even if I were to believe as fact the statement was made it still would IMO have zero bearing of their familiarity with one another as of course persons involved in criminal acts together want in no way for them to be tied together as in "cahoots".. That IMO is common sense that they wouldn't want to be known as friends, pals, partners in crime..

But as always jmo!!
 
IMO, Coletti stating that Brewer was not a favorite person of his sort of casts aspersions on Brewer's character and almost seems to point a finger of suspicion. If Brewer was Coletti's partner in crime, I can't see him trying to cast suspicion on his partner...

I think it would be "common sense" (if they were in cahoots) to do just the opposite and say - well I don't really know him very well but he's been an okay neighbor or something like that.

jmho but we can agree to disagree :seeya:
 
IMO, Coletti stating that Brewer was not a favorite person of his sort of casts aspersions on Brewer's character and almost seems to point a finger of suspicion. If Brewer was Coletti's partner in crime, I can't see him trying to cast suspicion on his partner...

I think it would be "common sense" (if they were in cahoots) to do just the opposite and say - well I don't really know him very well but he's been an okay neighbor or something like that.

jmho but we can agree to disagree :seeya:

MTE
We used to have a family down the block. They had aggressive dogs running loose, cars coming at all hours, the house was raided twice. We all talked about how much we disliked them. Even though we had never even met them.

ETA
So I can see an old retired guy not being thrilled when someone moves in and brings drugs and hookers to the neighborhood
 
I have to say I wonder about spiders motives here besides possibly discrediting any theory but his own, CPH. What is the deal are you trying to become famous through this case wright your own book? Not saying that is right or wrong, just curious.

I want this sick, hate crime committing, humanity defiling, woman hating, racist, parasitic beast off of this island. Long Island and the barrier beaches are sacred to me, so I want this wannabe jack the ripper bloodclaat dead. He isn't a creature to be observed and analyzed like some curious alien that crash landed in the woods, he should simply be thrown in a small cage upstate, fed cold slop on plate, while he spends the rest of his days in solitary where his only neighbors are hungry, blood thirsty inmates. That's my opinion only, and I'm a gentleman so I can only imagine how real hardend criminals feel about him. Feel free to quote me.
 
I know many of us studied maps when we first started discussing this case and we saw the white pickup & also another vehicle parked on the side of the road near where remains were located....

well tonight I found a vehicle parked on Ocean Parkway directly across from where Gilbert's remains were found on Bing Maps and I'm not sure but it appears to be similar to a Chevy Avalanche type vehicle

I am glad this topic has come up again, somehow the particulars of the location of SG's remains missed this forum when it was first revealed. That spot where she was is literally in the brush from where LE (bay constables, troopers) stealthily park waiting for speeders. If that isn't a big F.U. to LE I don't know what is, disgruntled ex-police anyone?
 
BTW, Truth. I meant to ask this a few days ago and forgot, but have you ever considered joining the police force? You're investigation skills are pretty good and you've obviously got a passion for solving this case.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
 
The only problem with all of these SG/Oak Beach conspiracy theories is that the police experts have already examined this from all sorts of angles and they have gone on record to say that every one of the key players in the conspiracy fantasy is not a suspect. This seems to support the notion that SG's 911 call does not give anything specific for the police investigators to work with. This seems odd considering that SG was such an intelligent young woman. You'd think that she would have stated by what method her life was in danger.

And do you really think that JB and MP would have stood by so calmly and let her actually make a phone call for 23 minutes?

If you argue that she was too high on drugs or intoxicated to give any info to 911 then you can also assume that she was high enough that MP or JB could have easily wrestled the phone away from her knowing that the police would probably consider her call a drunken prank.
 
Of course we can agree to disagree;).. And while in "theory" the role of Gus is troublesome for me in that I, personally can clearly see how he could fit very easily into my main theories of what I believe to have happened to Shannan that night/morning.. But the reality is that I am nothing more than an amateur armchair sleuth here at WS that is not boots on the ground, with all of the extremely vital details and info about each and every player here in this case... Therefor I cannot even say with any certainty and certainly cannot fight for what I may or may not believe to have happened in Oak Beach.. Because when we look at this realistically and not just theoretically these are very real human beings lives that we discuss here.. Many times even using first and last names that easily come up in the first 5 results of a google search done of any individuals name..

That is why I will not without any type of viable and real evidence make statements, especially in a situation such as exactly like this one of Gus where I may "theoretically" believe, based on what tiny modicum of info I know that he may, possibly have been involved in this nightmare, if even in a most remote way involved.. I still cannot trek forward in a campaign attempting to prove that what I may believe in theory is some type of known fact WHEN THAT IS THE VERY FARTHEST FROM TRUE.. I do not know.. None of us armchair sleuths "know" when speaking in those type of very serious, very real terms.. And that's why I absolutely have no problem whatsoever agreeing to disagree of any, all, or some of a "theory" that I may "feel" might be close to something that occurred in Oak Beach..

He may be involved and he may NOT.. There is nothing IMO out there in the MSM media that is indicative that he is for certain involved in this young woman's death and therefor I, personally will not attempt to make him "fit" a theory that I, an amateur, armchair sleuth may "think/feel" he may fit but in now way whatsoever have any facts to back that up with..

That's just me and that's just how I feel so I am one who any will see will NEVER take issue with ANYONE for us to agree to disagree over issues or situations such as this one involving, GC..

**Hope that clarifies a little about why I will or won't argue over particular issues dealing with someone's that quite possibly a very innocent, uninvolved individual in a case like this..BASICALLY BECAUSE I AM NOT PRIVY TO THE INFO NECESSARY TO MAKE SUCH A STATEMENT..**
 
The only problem with all of these SG/Oak Beach conspiracy theories is that the police experts have already examined this from all sorts of angles and they have gone on record to say that every one of the key players in the conspiracy fantasy is not a suspect. This seems to support the notion that SG's 911 call does not give anything specific for the police investigators to work with. This seems odd considering that SG was such an intelligent young woman. You'd think that she would have stated by what method her life was in danger.

And do you really think that JB and MP would have stood by so calmly and let her actually make a phone call for 23 minutes?

If you argue that she was too high on drugs or intoxicated to give any info to 911 then you can also assume that she was high enough that MP or JB could have easily wrestled the phone away from her knowing that the police would probably consider her call a drunken prank.

The bold is mine.
This is not a fact because we do not know anything about the 911 call. The last part possibly she did? I think we may never hear the tape because it will show the faulty police dept weakness, not enough man power to provide adequate coverage to citizens. Meaning it will show they cannot do their job under the current leadership.
 
I think its time they start letting the public know some stuff, such as the ME report. I have a headache when ever I think I may read something new and it turns out to be just a rewording of the same info/theories we have. In general all over the web not just here.

:banghead:
 
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