Possibly related cases (GB4, Manorville, Bittrolff victims, & others)

[SherlockHomes]

I noticed something interesting about HA. In April last year cops were saying they had a suspect. Take a look at this post article from april 8 2011

Cops eyeing suspect in grisly Long Island murders
By LARRY CELONA, SELIM ALGAR, KIERAN CROWLEY and BOB FREDERICKS

Police believe they know the identity of the Long Island Ripper, The Post has learned.
Cops on Long Island are "looking at somebody," said a law-enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation.
He refused to elaborate.
The stunning revelation comes as police are exploring a possible link between the serial killer -- suspected of dumping the bodies of eight victims along a remote Suffolk beachfront -- and the grisly murders of four hookers in Atlantic City in 2006.
"Our homicide detectives are in touch with the [Atlantic City] police," a Suffolk police spokesman told reporters.

AP
ECHOES: Kim Raffo (above) was one of four victims whose bodies were found near this Atlantic City motel, in a spree that police think is connected to bodies found on Long Island.

The Post reported yesterday that one of the New Jersey victims spent five weeks on Long Island with her husband shortly before she vanished on a bus to Atlantic City.
Hugh Auslander said yesterday he and his wife, Kim Raffo -- a crack addict and prostitute -- moved from Florida to a motel in Jericho, LI, in September 2006 to work for a friend and attempt to regain custody of their two children, who had been placed in foster care in New Jersey.
Raffo fell apart when she couldn't get her kids back, he said.
"That drove her nuts and she started doing crack again. We were fighting, and she hopped on a bus to Atlantic City. I never saw her again," Auslander said.
Meanwhile, sources told The Post the Long Island psycho changed his m.o. during his bloody spree -- altering the way he dumped his victims near Oak and Gilgo beaches.
The four remains discovered in December -- all later identified as Craigslist hookers -- had been wrapped in burlap.
But the new discoveries -- one found last week and three more Monday -- were dumped in a different manner, and were also found farther east off Ocean Parkway, the source said.
Cops have not determined how long the remains had been there, and the new discoveries may predate the others, they said.
"We don't know their sex, we don't know their age, we don't know anything about them," Suffolk Police Commissioner Richard Dormer said from the mobile command center at Oak Beach.
Suffolk cops found nothing new as they completed their search yesterday of the barrier island -- but said they'd be back.
"It is possible we missed something," Dormer said.
He also issued a warning.
"We tell people they should be careful with any contact they make with strangers, especially women involved in the escort business," Dormer said.
Nassau and State police will launch a search Monday along either side of Ocean Parkway west of where the remains were found.
They will use ladder trucks from area fire departments and officers on horseback to search the dense brush
"They'll be on horseback so they can get a better view," said Detective Lt. Kevin Smith.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...r_sights_TPxYTqoOO6yAXXJbTQT1SN#ixzz1tHoCyexy

KIM RAFFO IS THE KEY TO SOLVING THIS CASE. Notice that HA was interviewed in this article and cops imply they found a connection between Kim Raffo's stay on LI and the LISK Now here's a link to a dailymail article about the fb profiles:

Speaking to the Philadelphia Enquirer, Mrs Raffo's husband, Hugh Auslander, said police asked him if he was behind the fake Facebook profiles.
He said: 'Everybody's all creeped out by this.
'I wouldn't be calling police if I created them.'
investigators from Long Island and Atlantic city have both refused to comment on the Facebook profiles.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Atlantic-City-prostitutes.html#ixzz1tHtHiW1Q

I really find it strange that the post article that claims police have a suspect only focuses on Kim Raffo and Hugh Auslander while the dailymail article from ten days later HA admits he was questioned by the police.

 

[BKS]

I noticed something interesting about HA. In April last year cops were saying they had a suspect. Take a look at this post article from april 8 2011

Cops eyeing suspect in grisly Long Island murders
By LARRY CELONA, SELIM ALGAR, KIERAN CROWLEY and BOB FREDERICKS

Police believe they know the identity of the Long Island Ripper, The Post has learned.
Cops on Long Island are "looking at somebody," said a law-enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation.
He refused to elaborate.
The stunning revelation comes as police are exploring a possible link between the serial killer -- suspected of dumping the bodies of eight victims along a remote Suffolk beachfront -- and the grisly murders of four hookers in Atlantic City in 2006.
"Our homicide detectives are in touch with the [Atlantic City] police," a Suffolk police spokesman told reporters.

AP
ECHOES: Kim Raffo (above) was one of four victims whose bodies were found near this Atlantic City motel, in a spree that police think is connected to bodies found on Long Island.

The Post reported yesterday that one of the New Jersey victims spent five weeks on Long Island with her husband shortly before she vanished on a bus to Atlantic City.
Hugh Auslander said yesterday he and his wife, Kim Raffo -- a crack addict and prostitute -- moved from Florida to a motel in Jericho, LI, in September 2006 to work for a friend and attempt to regain custody of their two children, who had been placed in foster care in New Jersey.
Raffo fell apart when she couldn't get her kids back, he said.
"That drove her nuts and she started doing crack again. We were fighting, and she hopped on a bus to Atlantic City. I never saw her again," Auslander said.
Meanwhile, sources told The Post the Long Island psycho changed his m.o. during his bloody spree -- altering the way he dumped his victims near Oak and Gilgo beaches.
The four remains discovered in December -- all later identified as Craigslist hookers -- had been wrapped in burlap.
But the new discoveries -- one found last week and three more Monday -- were dumped in a different manner, and were also found farther east off Ocean Parkway, the source said.
Cops have not determined how long the remains had been there, and the new discoveries may predate the others, they said.
"We don't know their sex, we don't know their age, we don't know anything about them," Suffolk Police Commissioner Richard Dormer said from the mobile command center at Oak Beach.
Suffolk cops found nothing new as they completed their search yesterday of the barrier island -- but said they'd be back.
"It is possible we missed something," Dormer said.
He also issued a warning.
"We tell people they should be careful with any contact they make with strangers, especially women involved in the escort business," Dormer said.
Nassau and State police will launch a search Monday along either side of Ocean Parkway west of where the remains were found.
They will use ladder trucks from area fire departments and officers on horseback to search the dense brush
"They'll be on horseback so they can get a better view," said Detective Lt. Kevin Smith.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...r_sights_TPxYTqoOO6yAXXJbTQT1SN#ixzz1tHoCyexy

KIM RAFFO IS THE KEY TO SOLVING THIS CASE. Notice that HA was interviewed in this article and cops imply they found a connection between Kim Raffo's stay on LI and the LISK Now here's a link to a dailymail article about the fb profiles:

Speaking to the Philadelphia Enquirer, Mrs Raffo's husband, Hugh Auslander, said police asked him if he was behind the fake Facebook profiles.
He said: 'Everybody's all creeped out by this.
'I wouldn't be calling police if I created them.'
investigators from Long Island and Atlantic city have both refused to comment on the Facebook profiles.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Atlantic-City-prostitutes.html#ixzz1tHtHiW1Q

I really find it strange that the post article that claims police have a suspect only focuses on Kim Raffo and Hugh Auslander while the dailymail article from ten days later HA admits he was questioned by the police.

I think Kim Raffo is key to this investigation in so many ways especially in that her body was found just days after she was killed.

 

[tmacirish1]

I am answering these questions as they relate to AC4 & GB4, not the earlier victims from 2000-2003 that were found along Ocean Parkway.

Welcome to the Forum!

#1 We have no idea how long the SK spent with his victims. We do know that in the case of the last AC victim, she was dumped shortly after she was killed. That we do know for a fact as she was seen a few days 2 days before her body was discovered.
#2 In both cases, as far as we know there was no sign of torture, except for the strangulation of all of the victims.
#3 The AC4 and GB4 were not dismembered.
#4 No evidence of heavy assault.
#5 no dismemberment

Thank you for the warm welcome. I'll give a little background on myseld. Over the last few years I have gotten really into criminal psychopathology, especially the behavioral characteristics of violent crime. It has become a hobby of mine. I am pushing my masters program, which is centered in criminal justice-sociology, to allow me to do a special project with abnormal psychology. Thanks to Robert Ressler and John Douglas, I have learned how invaluable behavioral traits are at crime scenes because they mirror personallity. I am pursuing a career in law enforcement, but thanks to state budget cutbacks/layoffs..etc it has been an uphill battle lol.

Now, back to the SK. Havent the police said that the Long Island murders are all from one person? Spanning back to 1999/2000? I am curious to get the FBI's take because I have seen way too many local PDs mess up these types of cases, they just dont have the expierience to deal with these types of crimes.

I have tried researching on the internet the details of all of this, but as I have seen, it is very contradicting. Is there any information just on the LI slayings? Chronological order with crime scene details

 

[SherlockHomes]

Alot of people like to say they don't believe AC and LI are related. I just want to point out that that the detective who was in charge of the investigation (you know like privy to ALL THE INFO WE DON'T HAVE) stated they ARE the same killer. It really boggles my mind that anyone would just dismiss the opinion of someone with that much classified info

 

[Peter Brendt]

Never did they ever have a black cop as a POI in the AC murders. Can you please provide links.

Gilgo! It was for Gilgo ...

That one mantions the copd they suspected for having contacts with prostitutes:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/cops_eyed_in_slays_fOv6EUeWKQ9Qdo6bOn5zcJ

This one is an overview, which mentions it, but I had no time to pick out the second:
[ame="http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7392036n"]The Long Island Serial Killer - 48 Hours - CBS News[/ame]

Again ... this was connected to LI ... Dormer never investigated AC ...

Peter

 

[BKS]

Thank you for the warm welcome. I'll give a little background on myseld. Over the last few years I have gotten really into criminal psychopathology, especially the behavioral characteristics of violent crime. It has become a hobby of mine. I am pushing my masters program, which is centered in criminal justice-sociology, to allow me to do a special project with abnormal psychology. Thanks to Robert Ressler and John Douglas, I have learned how invaluable behavioral traits are at crime scenes because they mirror personallity. I am pursuing a career in law enforcement, but thanks to state budget cutbacks/layoffs..etc it has been an uphill battle lol.

Now, back to the SK. Havent the police said that the Long Island murders are all from one person? Spanning back to 1999/2000? I am curious to get the FBI's take because I have seen way too many local PDs mess up these types of cases, they just dont have the expierience to deal with these types of crimes.

I have tried researching on the internet the details of all of this, but as I have seen, it is very contradicting. Is there any information just on the LI slayings? Chronological order with crime scene details

Thanks for participating in the Forum. Fresh eyes can solve cases. There are a few researchers on here that have documentation, timelines and links to various media reports. Some very comprehensive research on several aspects of these cases has been done. I'll send you the member names who have impressed me.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Interesting that you mention the dismemberment. LE has not disclosed any of those details. Obviously, that is for a good reason. It would tell us a lot about this monster.

Amen to that!!!

Peter

 

[tmacirish1]

Alot of people like to say they don't believe AC and LI are related. I just want to point out that that the detective who was in charge of the investigation (you know like privy to ALL THE INFO WE DON'T HAVE) stated they ARE the same killer. It really boggles my mind that anyone would just dismiss the opinion of someone with that much classified info

I wouldn't stand in court and say they arent the same killer. It is just my opinion, and like you said, I dont have all the information and I am not pretending to be any kind of expert. What led to the change of opinion? What has the FBI said? I trust them more then a detective, who has probably never worked anything like this. The FBI is at the forefront when it comes to stuff like this

 

[Peter Brendt]

I wouldn't stand in court and say they arent the same killer. It is just my opinion, and like you said, I dont have all the information and I am not pretending to be any kind of expert. What led to the change of opinion? What has the FBI said? I trust them more then a detective, who has probably never worked anything like this. The FBI is at the forefront when it comes to stuff like this

It's the usal thinking process, I guess. At first, everyone looked for dead women elsewhere. In the beginning, there were even ideas (not in LE but generally in thr web), that the Daytona murders would be also connected. Then, with a little time, people (also not only LE) start to sort out details and see signatures and development over time. That changes the picture. First it was all "dead women", then the view split to "dead women wrapped in burlap", "dead women dismembered with the ramains spread over miles", "dead women killed in fast kill speed", "dead women killed in low kill speed". The more one thinks, the more one can see the differences. The first ideas had not only not enough time to mellow but were also driven by Dromer's fear to have an SK in the area in his last year.

Peter

 

[sean62185]

Hi everyone,

I found this site maybe around November(when I was looking up a phoenix SK from the early 90's, he decapitated two females both near the same canal almost exactly a year apart). Anyway, that's not important atm.. I have mostly been lurking, but this discussion got me interested.

A lot of people have different views on this case, and seeing people appear to be bickering back and forth saying you're wrong, no you're wrong is like watching an athiest argue with a Christian. Nobody has he clear cut answer, either way. Because in both cases we don't have the facts. Missing pieces, people adding in what they want(police, media) so we never really know what's going on or the facts.

That said, I think I agree with Peter, although I am not sure the suspect is black. I think the sister who talked to him said he was white, without getting into race, I think its easy to tell the difference between a black guy and white guy, as far they speak. But Peter seems to have more SK knowlege than anyone I have seen. Although, no serial killer is the same, they are all driven by the same thing, depending on what catagory they fall into. They just execte their plans differently it seems. Back on topic..

I do not believe they are connected. I believe there are 3 killers. AC(mission killer), LISK(sadist), Manorville(ice cold sadist, this guys a monster).. Also almost every profile I have read up on, by the people who go to school for years for this type of thing, are saying they are not connected. I am inclined to believe them.

Before anyone jumps in and says, the head of the AC task unit said they were connected, I am going to take that opinion with a grain of salt. Unless the feds announce that, his opinion doesn't hold much weight. My reason for that is, I have read too many cases were police botch investigations for assuming, following the wrong leads, less resources, etc.. Only because their egos are in the way. The Feds need to be all over these cases, and it seems like LE is pushing them away. Which is keeping them from advancing the case it appears.

That's just what I think, I guess we will never really know until they catch these low lifes.

 

[BKS]

Hi everyone,

I found this site maybe around November(when I was looking up a phoenix SK from the early 90's, he decapitated two females both near the same canal almost exactly a year apart). Anyway, that's not important atm.. I have mostly been lurking, but this discussion got me interested.

A lot of people have different views on this case, and seeing people appear to be bickering back and forth saying you're wrong, no you're wrong is like watching an athiest argue with a Christian. Nobody has he clear cut answer, either way. Because in both cases we don't have the facts. Missing pieces, people adding in what they want(police, media) so we never really know what's going on or the facts.

That said, I think I agree with Peter, although I am not sure the suspect is black. I think the sister who talked to him said he was white, without getting into race, I think its easy to tell the difference between a black guy and white guy, as far they speak. But Peter seems to have more SK knowlege than anyone I have seen. Although, no serial killer is the same, they are all driven by the same thing, depending on what catagory they fall into. They just execte their plans differently it seems. Back on topic..

I do not believe they are connected. I believe there are 3 killers. AC(mission killer), LISK(sadist), Manorville(ice cold sadist, this guys a monster).. Also almost every profile I have read up on, by the people who go to school for years for this type of thing, are saying they are not connected. I am inclined to believe them.

Before anyone jumps in and says, the head of the AC task unit said they were connected, I am going to take that opinion with a grain of salt. Unless the feds announce that, his opinion doesn't hold much weight. My reason for that is, I have read too many cases were police botch investigations for assuming, following the wrong leads, less resources, etc.. Only because their egos are in the way. The Feds need to be all over these cases, and it seems like LE is pushing them away. Which is keeping them from advancing the case it appears.

That's just what I think, I guess we will never really know until they catch these low lifes.

Why do you think LISK is a Sadist and not a Mission Killer?

 

[Peter Brendt]

Hi everyone,

I found this site maybe around November(when I was looking up a phoenix SK from the early 90's, he decapitated two females both near the same canal almost exactly a year apart). Anyway, that's not important atm.. I have mostly been lurking, but this discussion got me interested.

A lot of people have different views on this case, and seeing people appear to be bickering back and forth saying you're wrong, no you're wrong is like watching an athiest argue with a Christian. Nobody has he clear cut answer, either way. Because in both cases we don't have the facts. Missing pieces, people adding in what they want(police, media) so we never really know what's going on or the facts.

That said, I think I agree with Peter, although I am not sure the suspect is black. I think the sister who talked to him said he was white, without getting into race, I think its easy to tell the difference between a black guy and white guy, as far they speak. But Peter seems to have more SK knowlege than anyone I have seen. Although, no serial killer is the same, they are all driven by the same thing, depending on what catagory they fall into. They just execte their plans differently it seems. Back on topic..

I do not believe they are connected. I believe there are 3 killers. AC(mission killer), LISK(sadist), Manorville(ice cold sadist, this guys a monster).. Also almost every profile I have read up on, by the people who go to school for years for this type of thing, are saying they are not connected. I am inclined to believe them.

Before anyone jumps in and says, the head of the AC task unit said they were connected, I am going to take that opinion with a grain of salt. Unless the feds announce that, his opinion doesn't hold much weight. My reason for that is, I have read too many cases were police botch investigations for assuming, following the wrong leads, less resources, etc.. Only because their egos are in the way. The Feds need to be all over these cases, and it seems like LE is pushing them away. Which is keeping them from advancing the case it appears.

That's just what I think, I guess we will never really know until they catch these low lifes.

The head of the C task force said in the beginning of the LISK case, AC and LISK would be connected. Some weeks later, after they had time to look at details, they all went back and said, those cases were unconnected. Which is usual in fresh SK cases, at first a lot of assumption comes up before someone can run a tighter ship on it, then things go more orderly and LE gets time to look at the details that give SKs away instead of fighting the media all the time.

I profiled LISK black because of his victimology. Four white females who have visually not much in common with each other, indicates either hidden similarities (in the Alcala-case for example, it was face symmetry) or simply, that the important part for the killer is not sexual attraction per se, but what the victims are/symbolize.
So, this leaves me either with a psychopath/narcissist of the sadistic variety (in case there is a hidden similarity, I missed AND LE either kept secret, that the remains showed signs of torture, or as simple, missed such a detail due to decomposition) or a mission-driven killer.
To determine ethnicity on a phone is based on speech patterns. Means, it's the choice of words, that makes the difference. Simplified, if you have someone on the phone who calls you all the time "bro", you assume, he is African-American. If you have someone on the phone, who doesn't use such keywords, you assume, he is Caucasian. But educated persons of all ethnicities sound pretty much alike (unless they got their education in a non-english-speaking country, like I did). So, who of us would for example Morgan Freeman's ethnicity if the man would call us and not say his name? Or Bill Cosby? President Obama delivers examples for that mechanism all the time, his speech patterns obviously depend on to whom he is talking. Of course, the whole mechanism would also work vice versa.

Peter Brendt

 

[BKS]

In April 2011 the NY Post reported that one of the New Jersey victims spent five weeks on Long Island with her husband shortly before she vanished on a bus to Atlantic City.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...r_sights_TPxYTqoOO6yAXXJbTQT1SN#ixzz1tM13LvSf

Later the husband changed his story and admitted he followed her back to Atlantic City. He later stated he had her cell phone pass code and listened to who was calling her.
​

 

[Peter Brendt]

In April 2011 the NY Post reported that one of the New Jersey victims spent five weeks on Long Island with her husband shortly before she vanished on a bus to Atlantic City.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...r_sights_TPxYTqoOO6yAXXJbTQT1SN#ixzz1tM13LvSf

Later the husband changed his story and admitted he followed her back to Atlantic City. He later stated he had her cell phone pass code and listened to who was calling her.
​

The article is from Apr 8, 2011, this person is cleared in the meantime. If I remember right, since there was some slander campaign against him, we are not supposed to even mention the person in the article even by initials. There was some trouble in the past. For more information, you probably have to ask the mobs, I admit to have forgotten the details.
But whatever, if a suspect from 12 months ago isn't a defendant now, you can be pretty sure, there was nothing, that really stuck on him.

Peter

 

[BKS]

In July 2011 CNN reported "Authorities aren't sure the Long Island cases are connected to those in Atlantic City, but there are uncanny similarities."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/30/atlantic.city.killings/

 

[Peter Brendt]

In July 2011 CNN reported "Authorities aren't sure the Long Island cases are connected to those in Atlantic City, but there are uncanny similarities."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/30/atlantic.city.killings/

So? If you count out the prostitute similarity because every little coward wannabe kills prostitutes and the fact, that both, Atlantic City and Gilgo are obviously on the East Coast, what is really left in similarities? One stages, one wraps, one kills in fast sequence, one takes average a years between kills as of yet, one dropped his victims right behind a red light strip, one on a remote beach, one cared shows a a left-hand circular dropping pattern, one worked a pretty linear pattern ... so where are the uncanny similarities?
But whatever, in the end, it's a question of how to weight in similarities and differences. If you feel, those cases are connected by unspecified "cunning similarities", you feel that way and good. I don't. So we can agree to disagree in this.

Peter

 

[tmacirish1]

The head of the C task force said in the beginning of the LISK case, AC and LISK would be connected. Some weeks later, after they had time to look at details, they all went back and said, those cases were unconnected. Which is usual in fresh SK cases, at first a lot of assumption comes up before someone can run a tighter ship on it, then things go more orderly and LE gets time to look at the details that give SKs away instead of fighting the media all the time.

I profiled LISK black because of his victimology. Four white females who have visually not much in common with each other, indicates either hidden similarities (in the Alcala-case for example, it was face symmetry) or simply, that the important part for the killer is not sexual attraction per se, but what the victims are/symbolize.
So, this leaves me either with a psychopath/narcissist of the sadistic variety (in case there is a hidden similarity, I missed AND LE either kept secret, that the remains showed signs of torture, or as simple, missed such a detail due to decomposition) or a mission-driven killer.
To determine ethnicity on a phone is based on speech patterns. Means, it's the choice of words, that makes the difference. Simplified, if you have someone on the phone who calls you all the time "bro", you assume, he is African-American. If you have someone on the phone, who doesn't use such keywords, you assume, he is Caucasian. But educated persons of all ethnicities sound pretty much alike (unless they got their education in a non-english-speaking country, like I did). So, who of us would for example Morgan Freeman's ethnicity if the man would call us and not say his name? Or Bill Cosby? President Obama delivers examples for that mechanism all the time, his speech patterns obviously depend on to whom he is talking. Of course, the whole mechanism would also work vice versa.

Peter Brendt

Interesting. From my understanding a killer from the sadistic variety spends an excessive amount of time with his victim which would require some sort of restraint, and evidence of torture. I.e. bruising on the wrists from handcuffs/straps, shallow cuts, mutilation but specific to sexual areas like breasts, vagina, neck, feet, and also tend to develop exploratory patterns of mutilation (cutting out genitals, breasts) that is why the dismemberment details are so important along with when they started. Some killers dismember because theyve become so accomplished in their skill that dismemberment is used as a way to avoid detection, especially when hes racked up a lot of bodies. Some do it because theyre curious and looking for new forms of control, other do it as a combination of both. We need a fresh body (I know that is horrible, and we all wish he would disapear. But hes not going to.) We need to catch his art work before he wants us too. I wonder if he dismembers them, keeps them somewhere secure for awhile, then disposes of them at the dump sites.

Also, how were the bodies dismembered? That would help identify his age because we could see his progression. The cutting at first would be sloppy, and then progress to very neat meticulous pattern.

The phone call leads me to believe hes more of a lust/sadist, the poor girl probably called her sister while she was with this guy, and either texted/left voicemail saying how much she loves her and wants to help her saying her family loves her and wants her home. Now, even in death he has control over her and her family and loved . Very screwed up individual.

The LE already made a classic move to bait this guy in, hopefully it worked. I dont want to say what it was because I dont want to give anything away in the event he reads this site.

I tend to believe hes not a mission oriented killer. I feel like he'd already have made contact by now. He would need the credit for cleaning up society, and would not way be this quiet for long, hed be writing newspapers, police..etc. I also think his dumping would show more of a pattern for wanting discovery to come quickly so the world can see his mission.

Also, why do you think he is black? What did he say on the phone? Id think we see some black victims mixed into the body count if that was the case. Unless he is black but adopted by white people. But still, he'd have resentment towards his own mother for leaving him, even if he was abused by his adoptive white family, his biological mother would be help responsible.

 

[tmacirish1]

Were those bodies found last month related to this?

 

[BKS]

Some of the similarities between AC4 & GB4

1. Victims were strangled
2. Murder weapon was not found at crime scene.
3. All victims murdered at another location and then moved to dump site.
4. All victims dumped outdoors along Atlantic coastal region
5. All victims women ages 20-40 (approx.)
7. Victims dumped in clusters
8. Victims had addiction and money issues
9. SK left little evidence at the dump site
10. All victims were prostitutes
11. SK did not try to hide the identity of the victims
12. Killer took trophy items
13. Killer was familiar with both areas

When looking at the 5 windows of serial killing and what we know about both cases, they are similiar in three ways for sure.
Type of Abduction
Type of Kill
Disposal of bodies
My instincts tell me the victims were also stalked and are part of an ongoing fantasy of a Mission Killer.

Also, here is a link that tells more about the GB4 victims.
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/faces-of-the-gilgo-beach-victims-1.2633910

 

[Peter Brendt]

Interesting. From my understanding a killer from the sadistic variety spends an excessive amount of time with his victim which would require some sort of restraint, and evidence of torture. I.e. bruising on the wrists from handcuffs/straps, shallow cuts, mutilation but specific to sexual areas like breasts, vagina, neck, feet, and also tend to develop exploratory patterns of mutilation (cutting out genitals, breasts) that is why the dismemberment details are so important along with when they started. Some killers dismember because theyve become so accomplished in their skill that dismemberment is used as a way to avoid detection, especially when hes racked up a lot of bodies. Some do it because theyre curious and looking for new forms of control, other do it as a combination of both. We need a fresh body (I know that is horrible, and we all wish he would disapear. But hes not going to.) We need to catch his art work before he wants us too. I wonder if he dismembers them, keeps them somewhere secure for awhile, then disposes of them at the dump sites.

Also, how were the bodies dismembered? That would help identify his age because we could see his progression. The cutting at first would be sloppy, and then progress to very neat meticulous pattern.

The phone call leads me to believe hes more of a lust/sadist, the poor girl probably called her sister while she was with this guy, and either texted/left voicemail saying how much she loves her and wants to help her saying her family loves her and wants her home. Now, even in death he has control over her and her family and loved . Very screwed up individual.

The LE already made a classic move to bait this guy in, hopefully it worked. I dont want to say what it was because I dont want to give anything away in the event he reads this site.

I tend to believe hes not a mission oriented killer. I feel like he'd already have made contact by now. He would need the credit for cleaning up society, and would not way be this quiet for long, hed be writing newspapers, police..etc. I also think his dumping would show more of a pattern for wanting discovery to come quickly so the world can see his mission.

Also, why do you think he is black? What did he say on the phone? Id think we see some black victims mixed into the body count if that was the case. Unless he is black but adopted by white people. But still, he'd have resentment towards his own mother for leaving him, even if he was abused by his adoptive white family, his biological mother would be help responsible.

Lets make a few thing clear:

- neither the AC victims nor the GB4 (LISK) were dismembered, that is only such a rumor someone threw in here a while ago.
- The dismembered victims, Jessica Taylor, JD6 and so on are connected to Manorville. In my personal opinion, this Manorville dismemberer is not the same person as LISK or the AC-Killer.

Thus, if we talk about dismembering, we have to consider three different scenarios:

a.) dismembering as forensic counter measure
It's a rumor, SKs using dismembering as part of their disposal of bodies as a forensic counter measure only in later phases of their career. Dahmer, Rifkin, Bartsch (a German one), ... they all did it in the beginning of their careers.

b.) dismembering to keep body parts as souvenirs
I have seen a lot of those cases, from guys keeping heads and skulls (Berdella or once more Dahmer) to teeth (there was one in TX, forgot his name), to fingers (Volkanoff in Russia for example) ... there was even a guy in Egypt once, who collected male genitalia. And in a way, SKs maintaining little private graveyards and revisit them all the time (like Ridgway for example) do the same. Basically, that's trothy hunter behavior

c.) staging dismemberers
This kind, also known as torso-killers, use often torsos and heads in staged positioning to make statements. Since they are otherwise usually not very articualte, it's often a little hard to figure, what they want to tell us. A pretty messed up kind of guy, but in their work easy to spot. The place packages with torsos right in the way of police beats, put them on piles along ways they know will be used at some time, place them in the middle of ways where they know, people would come by, put them along high-traffic roads and so on. It's a rare kind and hard to catch, because they are slow killing, keeping body parts sometimes for years before they put them out there and they are meticulous.

I think, Manorville is type c.) Which would make him a sadist in the extreme (dismemberment starts usually antemortem). And that would be a kind of guy, who spends time with his victims, so he would need to restrain or drug them.
LISK is another kind of animal altogether. Most of the injuries from torture wouldn't be visible anymore due to decomposition. What would be noticeable would be deep cuts to the lower arms, because they often go through to the bones and can be discovered under the microscope. Lower organized SKs of the sadistic variety (and I use the term variety here intentionally) would maybe beat their victims and leave broken bones which could be discovered on skeletal remains.
Defensive wounds and traces of restraints wouldn't show on skeletal remains. So there would be some evidence for torture left to discover if the torture was extensive. Question is, would LE tell us?

There is a lot about those phone calls, that makes me wondering. At the first glance, yes, the few, LE told us, looks like that white drunk dude sadist. But from the few fragments, it appears to me, as if all he said was precise to the point of not torture but example. "Do you think ... with her life style ..." Even the sexual parts were worded as description what he would do, not what he did. Scenarios, summoned imaginations, not a fact. Which is consistent because it establishes a pretty typical pattern of "do right" or "terrible things will happen to you".
The other giveaway, in my opinion, is that he also called the bf Terri. Either, he knew, that this guy was more a bf than a pimp or he couldn't have expected, a pimp would care. Which would make the call senseless from the point of view of a sadist. A mission driven killer on the other hand wouldn't care whether he can psychological torture a pimp or not, because he would make the call to give hints to his mission statement, often combined with indirect threads.
And last but not least, the precision of what he had to say at the exact right time in the calls was too high to make me buying this "drunk" guy. Whatever else he was, he wasn't drunk. But it's easy to play drunk, especially on a phone for less than three minutes. Which poses the question, why he saw a need for this show play in the first place?

Peter