Possibly related cases (GB4, Manorville, Bittrolff victims, & others)

[Theforeigner]

Does your POI happen to be an avid blogger? I think we might have the same person in mind.

BTW I enjoy reading all the work you have done on this case TF! Thank you!

Hi Lanesmommy

Concerning the blogger question; No, not that I know of, but I could be wrong though.

And thanks for you kind words

If you would like to know more about my theorie/ POI (an x-husband to one of the AC4 victims, initials HA) here are some links to posts and threads:


Read my posts # 5 and #6, on page 1 in this thread


and...


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?157636-HA-and-his-media-presence

Thread: HA and his media presence



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rders&p=8187068&highlight=mothers#post8187068

Thread: Possible connection between the GB4, AC and other murders

In the above link read my posts #606, #605 and #610




http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...arty-between-the-GB4-victims-and-the-AC4-vict

Thread: In your opinion, is there a facial similarty between the GB4 victims and the AC4 victims




http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Y-SK-case-info-of-possib-interest-to-GB4-case

ATLANTIC CITY SK case info of possib. interest to GB4 case

 

[Lanesmommy]

Hi Lanesmommy

Concerning the blogger question; No, not that I know of, but I could be wrong though.

And thanks for you kind words

If you would like to know more about my theorie/ POI (an x-husband to one of the AC4 victims, initials HA) here are some links to posts and threads:


Read my posts # 5 and #6, on page 1 in this thread


and...


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?157636-HA-and-his-media-presence

Thread: HA and his media presence



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rders&p=8187068&highlight=mothers#post8187068

Thread: Possible connection between the GB4, AC and other murders

In the above link read my posts #606, #605 and #610




http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...arty-between-the-GB4-victims-and-the-AC4-vict

Thread: In your opinion, is there a facial similarty between the GB4 victims and the AC4 victims




http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Y-SK-case-info-of-possib-interest-to-GB4-case

ATLANTIC CITY SK case info of possib. interest to GB4 case

Wow! Once again my opinion is swayed as to who the killer is... Do you think that the AC4 are related to the GB4 and before that there was a butcher dumping bodies in the same location from the '90s til '03? I have read many many threads on this case but not every one. I would love to know your theory TF.

Also, I DO think the AC4 and GB4 are similar in looks. He preferred brunettes although MB and MW are blonde in some pictures they seem to have brown hair at the time. Do we know height stats on the AC victims? I think he also loathed women who used drug. JMO.

 

[Lanesmommy]

I just read that you feel AC4 and GB4 are the same killer. And the Manorville/OP bodies that were dismembered were another killer. I feel strongly about this scenario as well. SK who butcher their victims usually do this because in some twisted way they "enjoy" it. This case is like no other I have ever studied. Very perplexing IMO.

 

[CriminalMinds]

:bump:


very relevant and important thread to revisit----seems critical to bust open the AC4 for sure, and possibly tie it to GB4---other cases have shown where some form of relationship was established between vics,plaes,or both and that seems(seemed) to hold critical info/details(i.e. Jennings 8, OH, possibly Daytona, possibly West Mesa, New Britain CT)

 

[Fireweed]

Anyone have any guesses or ideas as to who the victims from these years are?

 

[CriminalMinds]

:bump:


very relevant and important thread to revisit----seems critical to bust open the AC4 for sure, and possibly tie it to GB4---other cases have shown where some form of relationship was established between vics,plaes,or both and that seems(seemed) to hold critical info/details(i.e. Jennings 8, OH, possibly Daytona, possibly West Mesa, New Britain CT)

--can anyone fully verify connection of friendships/knowing each other between Raffo-Costello(vacation crossing paths); or facebook for Dilts-Costello?
--any connection with R Blake and the crypts or bloods/remy red?

 

[CriminalMinds]

Do you know if the construction company was a subcontractor on the Robert Moses bridge project?

--anyone know if that company sent workers to OH in 2014 for grading projects that ran May 2014-July 2015, or for the Portsmouth, OH bypass project in the Chillicothe or neighboring area this year?

 

[mysteryattic]

--anyone know if that company sent workers to OH in 2014 for grading projects that ran May 2014
-July 2015, or for the Portsmouth, OH bypass project in the Chillicothe or neighboring area this year?

Criminal, I like way you think!

 

[LR1]

Jessica

On July 26, 2003, days after she was seen (Fri,18th - Mon,21st) working as a prostitute on the streets near the Port Authority Bus Terminal in Manhattan, her nude torso was found in the woods in Manorville, near the Long Island Expressway.

Maureen

July 9 2007 (Sat) At one point that weekend, Maureen called a friend from the Port Authority and said she’d been robbed of all the money she’d earned. She needed a ride home, but the friend couldn’t come get her. After that call, no one heard from Maureen again.

LE & Spota's take

While one of the two women was a Manhattan hooker, investigators said their killer is not the same monster who killed and dumped four Craigslist prostitutes elsewhere on the beach


It is clear that the area in and around Gilgo Beach has been used to discard human remains for some time," Suffolk County District Attorney Thomas Spota said. "As distasteful and disturbing as that is, there is no evidence that all of these remains are the work of a single killer.

So two young white female prostitutes whose last known location was in the area of the port authority in July are murdered four years apart and both of their remains or partial remains are found 45 miles away from last known location and are separated by a ten minute walk, on the same side of the same road and it's the investigators belief that they were not killed by the same monster. Are these guy's for real?

Two victims who are with no doubt individually connected to other almost identical victims are placed very near each other 45 miles away from where they went missing, four years apart, but they are not related because one set is dismembered and the other is not.
Are they serious?

Similarities > Dissimilarities

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/serial-killer/chilling-find-links-li-dumping-grounds-1.2865868

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index2.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ilgo-beach-suffolk-county-da-article-1.143511

 

[rickyperez]

I am not sure if this is the right thread for this but I am reposting my original post from the LISK A&E show thread because there seems to be a more in depth discussion/investigation of the murders here....

Good day all, I am new to this site but I have been interested in the LISK case for some time. Just throwing it out there but has anyone explored the possibility that the recent murder of Karina Vetrano is somehow connected? Queens has been mentioned a lot and Howard beach is only 30 miles west of Gilgo beach, not to mention they both contain the name beach. Also, another cold case (disappearance but never confirmed dead) that I wanted to mention was that of Carla Vincentini who disappeared from Newark in 2006; it seems that LISK had been operating around that time, preying on one woman every year (or every other year), at least beginning in 2007, but possibly even much earlier than that for all we know. Carla had last been seen walking out of a Newark bar in the Ironbound area (heavily populated by Brazilians and Portuguese) with who was reported by the media to be "a white male of unknown nationality, approximately 30 years old, 5-foot-8 and about 200 pounds. He had a fair complexion, with light eyes and short, salt and pepper hair" see the link below...

http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2015/02/nine_years_after_disappearance_fbi_renewing_campai.html

I have no clue nor am I suggesting that Carla was a sex worker but it is common knowledge that the Ironbound does have a lot of working girls who either advertise their services online or work in one of the many local go-go bars. Again, I am not suggesting this was the case with Carla but I simply wanted to mention her name since her disappearance was only a year before that of Maureen Brainard-Barnes and she at least seems to share some similar physical & demographic characteristics with some of the other girls who have been murdered. At the time of her disappearance, she was 22, was 5' 7" and weighed approximately 140lbs; her physical characteristics (even hair color is very similar) as well as her age are strikingly similar to that of Megan Waterman.

 

[rickyperez]

I really feel that Carla Vicentini is worth comparing with the LISK murder victims. The Karina Vetrano case I admit is definitely a stretch particularly because the MO is completely different but I also think that there are some subtle similarities. For example, the location is only 30 miles west and both Howard Beach and Gilgo Beach contain the word Beach (not that really is a big deal but it could speak to the killer's particular choice of location), Vetrano was found strangled to death like the LISK victims, all the bodies were left in thick brush and Vetrano, who even though was not a sex worker, was a young, attractive woman who may have been sexually assaulted. Amazingly, nothing left at the crime scene has been able to be linked to anyone, just like the LISK victims. The question would be why would he change his MO but I have my own personal theory as to why this could be.

Also, Carla went missing in 2006; later that year, 4 prostitutes were found dead in Atlantic City, NJ.

 

[BillWarnerPI]

View attachment 104713
Islamic Law or Sharia calls for the execution of female prostitutes, the most often used method is hanging or strangulation. The 4 Sex Workers Bodies Found 10 Years Ago on November 20th 2006 Behind the Golden Key Motel on Black Horse Pike Atlantic City NJ were strangled and posed, barefoot, all facing East, as possibly towards Mecca. Muslims take off shoes and socks and wash their feet before entering the Mosque, Muslims are supposed to be in a state of physical purification before making the prayer, which includes washing the feet. There is a possibility that the unsub serial killer has Muslim ties and is taking it on his own to terminate prostitutes wherever he finds them, sort of a Muslim Islamic Law Vigilante.

 

[LAbradford]

Here is an image I have put together of the 4 AC victims and the 4GB LI victims,
because IMO they are indeed significant lookalikes, they should be compared in pairs verticaly.
(4 of the AC victims were mothers, 2 of the GB4 victims were mothers.)

Add to that that TWO young, PREGNANT, mothers, living within the very same area of Oklahoma City, have been murdered, within that last week in Oklahoma City.
AND they IDEED are significant lookalikes of 2 of the AC4 victims as well as two of the GB4 victims!

And at least one of the Oklahoma victims, Jaymie Adams, it turns out, was a providing adds on craigslist, as a prositute.
Concerning the other girl, Jessica Lynn McPherson-Brown, we dont know yet if she was connetceted to some kind of prostitution?

Newsreports state that Jessica was a mother of two young children, a daugther 2 years old, and a son 4 years old, and that she divorced her husband earlier last year, spring 2011.
She is, according to newsreports, a " reservist for the Oklahoma National Guard".
Since Jessica Lynn McPherson-Brown was pregnant, I assume the father was somone different than the father of her other two cildren, I wonder WHO?

Concerning the GB4 and the AC4 victims:
I belive it is possible that the killer, for whatever reason, wanted to kill the very same 4 woman over and over again, and therefore choose the 4 LI victims on craigslist because on craigslist he could choose his victims by looks, because the prostitues had photos of them selves on their adds.
Then he could picked his victims that looked like the 4 AC victims.

WHY would he possibly do that???
IMHO because his murder of the AC4 was VERY, VERY personal, at least towards ONE of the AC victims! victim nr 4.

The other 3 victims, who ALL 3 knew victim nr 4, he killed IMO in order to scare victim nr 4 so much as to that she would give up her life as a prostitute and drug addict, and go back home to HIM and her family and take care of her children and husband.

I belive the killer was obsessed by AC Victim nr 4...Kim Raffo.

She choose NOT to do that, and was murdered as the 4th AC victim.

I belive that the killer had now evolved into a true serial killer and continued his "Mission" on Long island.

Has he now moved to Oklahoma???

Tell me what you think?

I don't think it's ever really that complicated, maybe in a Hollywood drama script. Every serial killer who has been caught had simple reasons for why they did what they did.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

 

[prolificProfile88]

I don't know why people have such a hard time believing its one killer responsible for all the bodies on Ocean Parkway? Everyone makes the comparison to Joel Rifkin, and he too started out dismembering victims and progressed to dumping whole bodies. It is the killer evolving. At first he dismembers because he thinks it will help him not be caught, its easier to move a body in pieces, or a young killer's morbid curiosity. I think LISK started dismembering bodies to evade capture and as he became more comfortable killing, he realized the cops weren't on to him and it inflated his ego and he started dumping whole bodies. Like Rifkin. I think after the pieces of the victims were found in Manorville and not on Ocean Parkway, that he became very comfortable with that dumping ground because nothing was being found there and it was easy for him to pull off the road and throw them away. I think he might have got some pleasure of driving by the bodies, but that the bodies were not his trophies. He probably has trophies that he can easily access and play with to relive his kills/fantasies. Phones, jewelry, clothing, photos ect. I think he might have been a young man on Long Island when Rifkin was caught, having disturbing thoughts, and related to or idolized Rifkin. Lets look at the similarities. Both from Long Island, both kill sex workers, preferred method is strangulation, started dismembering, progressed to dumping victims whole, both into gardening/landscaping? I see almost complete carbon copies. LISK is more tech savvy, but that's to be expected as the times have changed. The only real differences I see is LISK in my opinion has a better paying job or was born into some money, just from the location, but maybe not? LISK became comfortable with a dumping ground and so did Rifkin. Rifkin liked to leave his victims in rivers. If Rifkin hadn't become cocky and careless he would have gotten away with it for a lot longer, if he would have been caught at all. The cops had no idea his victims were related, let alone a suspect. I imagine LISK was angry and maybe a little afraid when his graveyard was found, but after he hadn't been caught, it inflated his ego. He either has a new dumping ground or is on a hiatus. A lot of men lose sex drive with age, but I don't think he will ever completely stop, unless he is caught.

Also I think Shannon Gilbert is related to the bodies on Ocean Parkway. Its just to much for it to be a coincidence. I think either someone in that gated community is Lisk or he was visiting someone there and picked her up. I don't think he is far from Oak Beach. Maybe he is married with children and his family vacations or visits relatives in the summer months, and he has to stay behind for "work"? Or maybe he has a house or apt nobody else knows about, or has complete control over his family and they dare not ask him about his business, he might work late hours. But then again i might be wrong. We won't know until he is caught and brought to justice. And as far as Shannon Gilbert goes, maybe its common place for ladies of the night to turn up dead in Oak beach, idk never been there? Maybe LISK is a group of men all covering for each other? But when the cops say Shannon said "they're trying to kill me", I tend to believe her. I don't think a little coke would make her that hysterical, being in her profession in sure she had done it more than a few times. I think either the John tried to drug her and she realized it want coke, or he said something that made her fear for her life. Maybe her driver procured women for LISK or group of LISKS. All these theories i find more convincing than two competing serial killers in the same location at the same time. Maybe its just me? It just seems so obvious.

Just my opinion.

 

[sparta]

Very Good Point Bill,

Also Burlap or Sackcloth as it's known to many different religions can be worn as a sign of mourning, deep remorse or humility. Or, a burial garment.

 

[rickyperez]

were the 4 AC prostitutes Muslim? Not that you can simply assume anything but I certainly wouldn't have thought so.

 

[ssvoogel]

were the 4 AC prostitutes Muslim? Not that you can simply assume anything but I certainly wouldn't have thought so.

1.) Why is that relevant?
2.) Is there any indication they are?


Kim Raffo, Barbara Breidor, Tracy Ann Roberts and Molly Jean Dilts don't sound like Muslims, unless they married to Muslims.

 

[Sillybilly]

1.) Why is that relevant?
2.) Is there any indication they are?


Kim Raffo, Barbara Breidor, Tracy Ann Roberts and Molly Jean Dilts don't sound like Muslims, unless they married to Muslims.

I believe this is in reference to all 4 victims being found barefoot (it is customary for Muslims to take of their footwear and wash their feet before they go to mosque) and all 4 victims were found with their heads facing east (Mecca was to the east)

 

[bluesneakers]

Very Good Point Bill,

Also Burlap or Sackcloth as it's known to many different religions can be worn as a sign of mourning, deep remorse or humility. Or, a burial garment.

Were their bodies washed?

 

[bluesneakers]

I believe this is in reference to all 4 victims being found barefoot (it is customary for Muslims to take of their footwear and wash their feet before they go to mosque) and all 4 victims were found with their heads facing east (Mecca was to the east)

Moses had to remove his shoes. Jesus washed people's feet. Christian churches face the East.