Possibly related cases (GB4, Manorville, Bittrolff victims, & others)

[Mountain_Kat]

FYI A link below takes you to the results of a study of US serial killers, their BD (body dump sites) and PFE (point of fatal encounter) and the spatial relationship to the home base of the serial killer. The study involved 54 male US serial murderers. All the cases were solved. Each offender was convicted of at least ten murders, committed on different dates and in different locations.

"It accords with the proposal that their offenses become increasingly integrated with their daily lives, and that some sort of growing confidence, or growing determination to reduce the risk of transporting the bodies, leads to the dump sites and the encounter sites being closer together."

http://www.investigativepsych.com/encounteranddeath.pdf

Very early on in this case, I hopped on google earth and starting looking for commonalities wrt locations (I'm a map addict when it comes to crime). I noticed, what I believe, is a loop our sk travels. His first 2 victims (MBB and MB) were acquired just outside of his LI loop, but we know that he certainly brought Melissa into the loop, because we have her cellphone pings to prove that. His last 2 known victims were acquired IN Long Island, his last victim, Amber, being the only girl who was a local. IMO, he's begun to hunt closer and closer to home. He feels safest in his loop, because he knows his loop like the back of his hand, and Melissa almost got him caught.

If the GB4 dumpsite is a trophy case (which I believe it is), then he chose that site because he would be able to see it on a regular basis. So, he either lives near the site or works near the sight. In other words, he travels the LI loop frequently.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say he either lives in (or very near) Massapequa and works near Oak Beach, or it's the other way around.

All JMO

ETA: It's also interesting to note that the cluster of strip clubs (including Cherri Bombs) falls right in the center of this loop, and is VERY close to the home of Amber Costello).

 

[BKS]

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say he either lives in (or very near) Massapequa and works near Oak Beach, or it's the other way around.

I also think that it may be that this area was his "home base" when he visited LI in the summer months to work and possibly stay with family. Also, it's possible he may have lost that "home base" or his mode of transportation since there have been no more murders in the area. JMHO

 

[Just K]

Well, there are definitely missing people and bodies that have turned up in that loop...they just have yet to be connected to LISK.

 

[TimeCop]

FYI A link below takes you to the results of a study of US serial killers, their BD (body dump sites) and PFE (point of fatal encounter) and the spatial relationship to the home base of the serial killer. The study involved 54 male US serial murderers. All the cases were solved. Each offender was convicted of at least ten murders, committed on different dates and in different locations.

"It accords with the proposal that their offenses become increasingly integrated with their daily lives, and that some sort of growing confidence, or growing determination to reduce the risk of transporting the bodies, leads to the dump sites and the encounter sites being closer together."

http://www.investigativepsych.com/encounteranddeath.pdf

This is something I have been trying to describe and link to an open case. I believe this is a very awesome post. Do you know of a thread here in Websleuths where we can chat about this thought maybe? I would like your advice on some research I am doing related to this exact subject. Thanks for this post. I believe that most killers do in fact lure the victims to an isolated killing grounds at or near where they are to bury or dump the bodies. One interesting Idea I have is linked to the use of stones to mark the sites as well. Were any stones found near any of these dumps sites? Or markings of any kind?
I think there is a satanic element to these types of killings where the victim was killed near or at the site where the body was found ( a power gratification for the killer, a victory of sorts, the springing of the trap. the satisfaction of the kill, you know, the I got you now personality of the killer at the time).
Most often, the killer leaves a message, a way to add his signature, but I am unawares of any studies showing that percentage. Do you know of any studies showing how many serial killers leave a signature behind?
I always thought(ever since I was a kid) that the Green River killer left his signature, and that possibly it was the Green River itself. It turns out that Gary Ridgeway (GR) may have done that, but I have suspected that active killers would share this in profile: Spending time away to go to a area repeatedly. Thus staking the area,observing the surroundings and listening to the noise of the area and testing it for seclussion* which, arent a large number of those studied, killers who dump or bury in remote locations?
Gary by the way is still alive, and i would love to have the time to ask him some questions in person. I do think your post is most interesting and a fascinating topic, especially in relation to research I am foing on the side to a POSSIBLE killing grounds.
As well I wonder, just how involved are the killers with the area, besides just knowing it? Do they have a special connection to the area? do they Alter it(such as move stones, clean it up to look more clean(thus less likely someone stumbles onto their work)etc?).
Again,awesome post.

 

[BKS]

Do you know of any studies showing how many serial killers leave a signature behind?

Thanks Timecop.

The study (linked below) concluded that while the sk may leave a "signature" behind, they may not do it with all of their victims (for various reasons)

http://www.jaapl.org/content/38/2/239.full

[FONT=&quot]A 2010 study based on the records of 38 serial sexual killers and their 162 victims debunked the common belief that such killers engage in “signature” behaviors—identical ritualistic behaviors—at each crime scene.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
http://alert.psychiatricnews.org/2011/06/serial-killer-behaviors-ritualistic-but.html

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Well, there are definitely missing people and bodies that have turned up in that loop...they just have yet to be connected to LISK.

I'd bet my farm that there's another dumpsite somewhere off the Robert Moses Parkway.

 

[Just K]

I'd bet my farm that there's another dumpsite somewhere off the Robert Moses Parkway.

Or any of those East-West Highways. Oh and/or near the exit ramps off the LIE between exit 68 and 72.

 

[waltson]

I have a story for you guys. A good friend of mine relayed this story to me a while ago but I asked him to tell it to me again and this is in his words:

"My friend Bob has an art project where travels to famous murder scenes to photograph them. He was going to AC to photograph the landscape behind the golden key motel so my girlfriend and I went with him. So we drive down to the golden key motel and go down to check out the ditch. While were down there looking around two people suddenly crawl out of a bush. A young latino guy around 22 and a young pregnant latino girl around 23. They crawled out of the bush and left. We thought it was kind of odd but also funny and we laughed it off and he continued to set up his camera gear. We left and went to the casino and he stayed to photograph. While he's shooting pictures somebody from the hotel comes out and asks what he's doing. he said "why are you shooting pictures" Bob responds "oh I'm from canada and I was just driving thru and I saw the motel and it looked like a cool place to take some pictures" Trying to make him think he didn't know about the murders. The guy was relatively convinced but he said "You can't take pictures here anymore you got to go". So Bob starts to pack his stuff up. Keep in mind he's not doing a point n shoot he has a large format camera, he's got the blanket out the whole nine yards. While he's there a fight breaks out in the motel and the cops are called and arrive while he's there behind the motel. He doesn't know what it was about there was just some sort of a fight.
So anyway he comes back and meets me at the casino. I'm up a 100 bucks then I'm down 100 bucks and then everybody got tired of my gambling ways and went back to the motel with out me. I stayed at the casino till I won all my money back and then some. Then I returned to the motel alone, I walked the ten blocks alone back to the motel we stayed at. It was a kind of sketchy $50 motel that we stayed at, not super sketchy but skecthy enough. Wer'e back at the motel and its 2 am me and Bob and I are drinking beer on the outside terrance of the motel. Were chillin talking about music and stuff enjoying the night, enjoying the night nobody lost money, he got the pictures.
Around 5 we decide to go to sleep and about a half hour after we go to bed we hear knocks at the door. Knocks persist, everybody wakes up but me at first. Wtf is going on. Finally I wake up. Knocks stop. During that time somebody is trying to look in thru our blinds. Knocks stop and the phone rings "vring vring". He answers it. "Hello?" voice responds "It's your brother John let us in let me in it's your brother john" right he's like "I don't have a brother john and your not coming in" and he hangs up the phone. Now were bugged out cuz we heard it thru the receiver and we heard Bob's response. Were like bugging were like oh **** so we called the downstairs desk and said "somebody is trying to get into our room" can you see what the f is going down?" So he's like "yeah I'll take a look" Two seconds later we start hearing knocks on the glass again only this time there quicker and faster and sound like something metallic against the glass. So were freaking out I was almost on some everybody under the bed type ****. The taps on the window stop. Split second later the phone rings and it was the hotel clerk. Nothing else happened."

There's two things I got from this story.

!. People hang out inside the bushes in the drainage ditch behind golden key motel.

2. The name John

Now this story always gave me the creeps and then I remembered that Pamela Covelli's suspect had told her he was named John.

Ms. Covelli, whose story could not be confirmed, said she had identified a suspect for investigators, describing him as a white man about 6 feet tall with greasy, dark hair and a beard.
She said that the man had said his name was John, but that investigators identified him as Bill.
The man was flush with cash and cocaine when he invited her and Ms. Raffo to a Pacific Avenue motel, Ms. Covelli said. They later partied at a motel on the White Horse Pike, she added.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...-prostitute-killings-remain-a-mystery-512134/

Now obviously John is the most common name ever but I just wanted to share the story with you because it is FREAKY and it gives an idea of the atmosphere of the AC killings.

So Pam Covelli's suspect apparently ended up to be Bill Schlue who claimed police told him he was a "witness". Denise Hill's suspect supposedly was named eldridge. Hmmm edridge?



Blitz has yet to say anything about any potential suspects. He has not even acknowledged that all of the victims were killed by one person. The Best Western is one of two businesses where employees said investigators have asked about security camera footage. The hotel and Maloney's Uptown Sports Bar & Grille, both in the beach-block neighborhood that three of the victims frequented, have outdoor cameras. The Best Western saves about three months of digital video footage, Samuel said, but she was unsure if investigators ever specifically asked to see the footage because her shift ended while they were there. At Maloney's, renovations kept cameras turned off during the weeks that the girls began disappearing, bartender Larry Adams said. Investigators did not ask to see camera footage at the Tennessee Avenue Super 8, according to workers at the hotel that sits near a restaurant that was one of the last places victim Kim Raffo was seen alive. The cameras there all point onto the hotel property, not the street. However, investigators did stop to ask questions at the Super 8, a hotel clerk said. Investigators visited the Best Western as recently as Friday, Samuel said. The week before, they asked if a man named Eldridge had ever registered there, she said. Hill said the man she slept with there was named Eldridge.

from crimezzz http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkiller_news/A/ATLANTIC_CITY_serial_killer.php

And now, Denise Hill, one of the prostitutes who initially fingered Oleson as the suspect, is recanting her previous statements. She says the man she spent time with in November 2006 is not Oleson as she previously thought. When she originally identified Oleson, she says police showed her a photo and she thought it might be him. While Oleson was in jail on the separate charges, Hill*spent the*next several months confident that*the killer was in police custody.*
But as she walked down the streets of Atlantic City on October 1, 2007, she says she stopped dead in*her*tracks when she saw a familiar face -- the man who'd told her he had "killed some people" during their November 2006 encounter.*That man wasn't Terry Oleson. She says she*had*identified the wrong man*as the killer. The problem is, Hill doesn't know who the mysterious man is -- but she says she'd recognize him anywhere
from AMW

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=41917

Denise Hill, a resort prostitute who knew some of the victims, said she recognizes the man in the pictures and said she spent the night with him at a Best Western Hotel on Pacific Avenue. She said he only being asked her to console him as he told her he had done terrible things in his past. Hill said Thursday that the man, who she claims is named Eldridge, had a Pennsylvania license plate on his car that ended with the numbers 0889.

 

[LINative13]

Hi everybody!
I wanted to start a thread concerning relationships between the victims of the 10 girls found in manorville, OP, and fire island. I obviously do not want to miss something so if there is a relationship between a "possible victim" or an AC4 victim please list that.
This is a fact thread that I want to keep lean. If you have a hunch or something that is not fact, please label as such to avoid confusion.
Thanks ladies and gentlemen. I do not know much about these possible relationships and I do not recall a thread about it. Maybe we will see something we overlooked.

 

[LINative13]

Hmmm...nothing?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The only connection between victims that I've ever been able to find is that Rita Tangredi-Beinlich (who was strangled and dismembered in 1993) had a daughter who was best friends with Melissa Barthelemy.

 

[Theforeigner]

LINative13 great topic thanks for starting this.

This is kind of of topic, however I do belive it is relevant, hope it is ok.



This is a post I posted concerning IMO very significant connections between the 4 Atlantic City (AC4) victims.

I post it here due to that I belive that the killer of the GB4 and AC4 victims are the same person.

Also LE, both in AC and on LI, has investigated this possible connection, due to that the two cases has so many things in common, MO and Victimology + the fact that one of the AC4 victims, Kim Raffo and her x-husband spent ca 5 weeks on Long Island, ending ca 4 weeks prior to the AC4 victims was fund murdered in Atlantic City.

And Kim Raffo was born on Long Island and have family on LI which also her x-husband has, he actually have a lot of both friends and close family on LI.
Add to that, that the x-husband's brother in law in an interview stated that Kim Raffo had worked for her x-husbands construction bizz on Long Island.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/22/nyregion/22slay.html?pagewanted=print&_r=0
"A brother-in-law, from his home in Miramar, Fla., said that after Ms. Raffo and her husband separated about six years ago, she went to Atlantic City with a boyfriend and got involved with drugs and prostitution. Later, she worked for her ex-husband’s construction business on Long Island."




http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165352&page=12 post #298


At least 3 of the AC4 victims KNEW each other

One VERY significant and important detail concerning the AC4 victims, is the FACT that at least 3 of the victims KNEW each other, even from time to time, LIVED TOGETHER !

Kim Raffo, kind of "took care" of both Tracy Ann Roberts and Molly Jean Dilts.

This IMO point to that the killer's motive was VERY personal !!!
And that Kim Raffo indeed is the key and motive to/for the AC4 murders.
Kim Raffo was the last victim of the AC4, and I belive the other 3 was killed to scare Kim Raffo out of prostitution and Atlantic City, when she didn´t do that...the killer murdered her to.

Here are newsreports stating that Kim Raffo knew and accociated with, at least two of the other AC4 victims; Tracy Ann Roberts and Molly Jean Dilts, and that Kim apparently rented hotel room, at the very same hotel in the 21 day timeframe of Oct 2-Oct 23, 2006 , as Barbara V Breidor did.

Some of the quotes are from no longer avaible newsreports, which I have payed to get, so I can not provide a link to those newsreports but I do have the full newsreports.
I have added the headline of the newsreports, the dates of the reports and who wrote them:

Connection between Kim Raffo and Tracy Ann Roberts, 23:

"FOUR WOMEN, FOUR STORIES OF HOPE LOST ON STREETS OF ATLANTIC CITY"
By LYNDA COHEN, TOM NAMAKO and MICHAEL MILLER
Published: December 3, 2006

quote:
“When it gets Unable to dote on the children she loved, Kim begins taking an interest in the lost girls of the street. She befriends them, giving them a place to get cleaned up and eat. Sometimes they sleep there, on the floor. A regular at the apartment is Tracy Roberts."


Connection between Kim Raffo and Molly Jean Dilts, 20:

"FOUR WOMEN, FOUR STORIES OF HOPE LOST ON STREETS OF ATLANTIC CITY"
By LYNDA COHEN, TOM NAMAKO and MICHAEL MILLER Staff Writers, (609)
272-7231
Published: December 3, 2006

quote:
“Kim took an interest in the full-faced young girl with the long dark hair. Molly was only 20. She looked even younger.
She was always with Kim on the street. The young girl who lost her mother and the 35-year-old woman who lost her kids may have found something to cling to in one another. ”


Possible connection between Kim Raffo and Barbara V. Breidor, 42:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/23/ny...pagewanted=all
Dith Pran/The New York Times

newsreport Published: December 22, 2006, 1 month and 2 days after Kim Raffo was found murdered:

quote:
“Mr. Hessee, who stayed in Room 104 at the Fox Manor Hotel from Oct. 2 to Oct. 23, said he had met both Ms. Raffo and Ms. Breidor, who would each take a room at the hotel from time to time”


It would be of great importance to find out if Kim Raffo, or any of her family members, actually did know Barbara V. Breidor as well.

And It would of course be of great importance to find out if Kim Raffo, or her x-husband knew any of the GB4 victims.

 

[LINative13]

Do you know if the construction company was a subcontractor on the Robert Moses bridge project?

 

[Theforeigner]

Do you know if the construction company was a subcontractor on the Robert Moses bridge project?

No I don´t know if he had any connection to that Robert Moses bridge project.

But it has been stated in newsreports, by Kim Raffo's x-husband, that he and Kim:

http://nypost.com/2011/04/08/cops-eyeing-suspect-in-grisly-long-island-murders/
April 8, 2011

"Hugh Auslander said yesterday he and his wife, Kim Raffo — a crack addict and prostitute — moved from Florida to a motel in Jericho, LI, in September 2006 to work for a friend"



<modsnip>

SO...HA stated that he was taking Kim Raffo to Long island for them both to work on a friends house.

But he also said: "we both went to the westbrook hotel where we both helped out"

So that IMO sounds like he ment that they helped working on the westbrook hotel, so their friend owned the hotel???

Then, after I research the westbrook hotel and found that no such hotel exist on Long Island, HA change his mind and said it was the meadowbrook motor lodge.

Bottomline is, AGAIN, inconsitances, and HA apparently didn't know the name of his friends hotel, the very hotel he and Kim supposedly stayed and worked at just weeks before Kim was brutaly murder.
I find it odd that he didn´t remembered this.

 

[LINative13]

No I don´t know if he had any connection to that Robert Moses bridge project.

But it has been stated in newsreports, by Kim Raffo's x-husband, that he and Kim:

http://nypost.com/2011/04/08/cops-eyeing-suspect-in-grisly-long-island-murders/
April 8, 2011

"Hugh Auslander said yesterday he and his wife, Kim Raffo &#8212; a crack addict and prostitute &#8212; moved from Florida to a motel in Jericho, LI, in September 2006 to work for a friend"

<modsnip>

SO...HA stated that he was taking Kim Raffo to Long island for them both to work on a friends house.

But he also said: "we both went to the westbrook hotel where we both helped out"

So that IMO sounds like he ment that they helped working on the westbrook hotel, so their friend owned the hotel???

Then, after I research the westbrook hotel and found that no such hotel exist on Long Island, HA change his mind and said it was the meadowbrook motor lodge.

Bottomline is, AGAIN, inconsitances, and HA apparently didn't know the name of his friends hotel, the very hotel he and Kim supposedly stayed and worked at just weeks before Kim was brutaly murder.
I find it odd that he didn´t remembered this.

Don't sound like an operation that meets union requirements or insurance requirements to work on bridge job. Thanks,

 

[Just K]

List of commonalities of TRA and GB4 and AC4:
Strangled/asphyxiated
Drug Addict
Stayed at the same hotel as Molly Jean Dilts
Body left near a nature preserve not far from residential areas
Same initials as Tracy Ann Roberts...just different order TRA & TAR
Looks like Barbara Briedor, Melissa Barthelemy, and Tracy Ann Roberts
Tattoos
Mother
Found by an off duty police officer

 

[giagreen]

And...Tara Rogers-Alicea is IMHO a definite lookalike of:

AC4 victim Tracy Ann Roberts (and to some degree also Kim Raffo)

GB4 victim Melissa Barthelemy

The first thing I thought of when I seen Tara was the similarities except for me I thought of Amber Costello right away.

 

[PickleChris]

I really doubt that tattooed picture is her. I've seen that picture several times before on the net.

 

[Just K]

I really doubt that tattooed picture is her. I've seen that picture several times before on the net.

Yes, I looked through all her pics and figured that out, too. What an odd choice for her cover pic on FB, though.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

The only connection between victims that I've ever been able to find is that Rita Tangredi-Beinlich (who was strangled and dismembered in 1993) had a daughter who was best friends with Melissa Barthelemy.

I think this is very significant. I dont think it's a coincidence. Perhaps someone who knew Rita was her killer and so it's someone still in her daughters life. How did Rita's daughter know Melissa from NYC or Buffalo? I think there is really something to this. Thanks for pointing it out MK