Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[JudgeJudi]

Mangena says that it can't be a double tap because the second shot would have hit Reeva close to where the first shot hit her. He says there has to be a pause (which corresponds to what Burger and Johnson testified, without knowing the significance of the pause). Here's a summary from Juror13's blog:


Also, in your scenario you've just kicked out the panel that shots C and D go through haven't you?

I knew you'd pick flaws instantly. Best I leave theories well and truly alone.

 

[44ALLAN]

Thanks for the tweets peoples - IMO the appeal is nicely hard-hitting in its wording, such as 'NPA asks should a court '"trawl through a plethora of defences and pick one for the accused" or rather reject his evidence' and 'NPA also asking why Masipa dismissed the circumstantial evidence in the case and how she could have relied on OP's version'.

I'm very pleased to see that they are asking the same questions that are asked here and similarly, the tone borders on the incredulous.

I agree.
It was quite surreal reading the application as I've already read it all on here for the past few months lol.

Methinks we should sue them for copyright infringement

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I just love it, all of it. Conviction, sentence AND the unlawful possession of the ammunition is in.


As LIGHT destroy DARKNESS TRUTH will destroy the EVIL


Let's all have a :toast: and hope that the :scale: of justice will now favour Reeva.

We can now sit back and wait for the :fireworks: to start.

Hahaha, Carl has new tweets:

Carl Pistorius @carlpistorius · 14 Std. Vor 14 Stunden

My God is the ultimate WINGMAN! #Christalone #faithhopelove

Carl Pistorius @carlpistorius · 14 Std. Vor 14 Stunden

#faithhopelove
Eingebetteter Bild-Link


Carl Pistorius @carlpistorius · 14 Std. Vor 14 Stunden

#faithhopelove
Eingebetteter Bild-Link


Carl Pistorius @carlpistorius · 14 Std. Vor 14 Stunden

#faithhopelove


Carl Pistorius @carlpistorius · 14 Std. Vor 14 Stunden

#Hehasitplanned #faithhopelove bbm= who, Oscar?

 

[Mr Fossil]

I knew you'd pick flaws instantly. Best I leave theories well and truly alone.

Don't - all ideas are good even if they don't work - it makes us stop and think, and you never know when something you suggest might spark a line of thought in someone else which moves our collective thinking forward.

I've had some pretty poor ideas shot down in the past (and I thought they were good when I posted them)! But they often trigger debate.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Pistorius reps: Product not steroids

"The World Anti-Doping Agency said its science department had already been made aware of the substance and that it wasn't banned.

It would appear to be a homeopathic treatment, and these treatments are not prohibited by the list," WADA said in a statement to the AP.

The substance found in Oscar Pistorius' bedroom ... was identified by his representatives Wednesday as Testis compositum -- an herbal remedy they said is used for "muscle recovery." A product by that name also is sold as a sexual enhancer".

http://espn.go.com/olympics/trackan...reps-say-substance-herbal-remedy-not-steroids

This product is illegal for some other sports but not for track and field.

Should we believe the statements or was it hushed up, I don't know and will certainly never know.

 

[cottonweaver]

Not read the appeal yet but already see from page 2 - solicitor Brian Webbers address is in Illovo.
http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/141104NPA.pdf

Remember all our conjecture re where Op was day of 13th feb? His evidence was that he was supposedly one appointment was a "financial meeting". I always thought that that meeting was pertaining to Cassidy-Memmory case and was the "sh£tty thing...and your'e a nice guy ...i don't know how to console you ...."etc referred to in the Reeva Oscar texts that day and reason he was so annoyed.

Earlier on in this thread, someone linked to a news article that says he was at a lawyers in Illovo daytime of 13th. So I am totally convinced now on that one - source of his initial mood was CM case still hanging over him. Didn't expect Webber would reveal that of course, sat in court all these months with his red face.

Anyway, jumping of from that then....emotionally blackmailed by OP to stay over as he had had a bad day, Cassidy-Memmory case was not settled....all because OP was violent towards a woman in his own home .... hours later kills a woman.
I could go on and on but I want to read the court papers that you've all kindly linked too....otherwise i really will have to get into all of these boxes from the loft!!!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Should we believe the statements or was it hushed up, I don't know and will certainly never know.

FG, I deleted my post. I didn't think anyone would be too interested. It was debunked by the police IIRC. I certainly wouldn't go by anything OP's reps said. They've actually told flat out lies in the past.

You've been a really busy bee for a while now and have turned up some interesting things. I'm looking forward to what else you find. I like looking in the past too, but it's hard to find things we don't know about. I think there's heaps more to come out.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Now that we have the appeal application wording, and assuming the right to appeal is granted, could some legal mind on here (Pandax?) explain under what (remote?) circumstances the SCA would call for a retrial?

 

[cottonweaver]

Not read the appeal yet but already see from page 2 - solicitor Brian Webbers address is in Illovo.
http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/141104NPA.pdf

Remember all our conjecture re where Op was day of 13th feb? His evidence was that he was supposedly one appointment was a "financial meeting". I always thought that that meeting was pertaining to Cassidy-Memmory case and was the "sh£tty thing...and your'e a nice guy ...i don't know how to console you ...."etc referred to in the Reeva Oscar texts that day and reason he was so annoyed. Especially annoyed regarding the financial implications of that case in relation to sponsorship/PR damage.

Earlier on in this thread, someone linked to a news article that says he was at a lawyers in Illovo daytime of 13th. So I am totally convinced now on that one - source of his initial mood was CM case still hanging over him. Didn't expect Webber would reveal that of course, sat in court all these months with his red face.

Anyway, jumping of from that then....emotionally blackmailed by OP to stay over as he had had a bad day, Cassidy-Memmory case was not settled....all because OP was violent towards a woman in his own home ....so caring Reeva ends up staying even though she has better things to do...... hours later, in the very same place she is the one now bearing the brunt of his rage.....

Hard to believe, that Reeva and OP did not discuss this case, even on a superficial level, at some point that night - with her LLB and his bad mood, she must have asked what exactly had happened at the lawyers.

I could go on and on but I want to read the court papers that you've all kindly linked too....otherwise i really will have to get into all of these boxes from the loft!!!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Mandy Wiener @MandyWiener · 2h 2 hours ago
#OscarPistorius The NPA wants to go directly to the Supreme Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein - not a full bench of the High Court.

Mandy Wiener @MandyWiener · 2h 2 hours ago
#OscarPistorius NPA says 'court did not discuss, accept or reject circumstantial evidence rendering the version of the accused impossible'

Mandy Wiener @MandyWiener · 2h 2 hours ago
#OscarPistorius NPA says the court 'accepted his defence as that of putative self-defence, against his evidence and argument'

 

[Mr Fossil]

Nathi Mncube ‏@mncube_nathi
Now that the papers have been filed, we await the date of the hearing. The application for leave to appeal will be heard by the same judge

https://twitter.com/mncube_nathi/status/529608326976655360

 

[Val1]

I knew you'd pick flaws instantly. Best I leave theories well and truly alone.

I do think that OP had beat the door up pretty good before he shot RS, I think this huge splinter could very well be evidence of that from before he shot her to death.


I don't see how a splinter that big could have fallen on her and then into the toilet once she had fallen back by the magazine rack and was cowering over the toilet before the final shot to her head.

When you take into account the angle of impact to make that first opening above the lock I would surmise that the chunk that broke through, splintered and that rather large piece flew into the room and fell into the toilet. After he decided to go get his gun RS probably was trying to listen to what he was doing when he returned and started firing. I think she could see him and he her, or at least enough of where she wasn't that he was able to aim close enough that he would have had to have hit her.

 

[LemonMousse]

I think the "bordering on DE" should be seen in the context of the sentence, not the overall verdict.

Nel is saying (I think) that, even in the event that the overall verdict remains CH, OP's actions that night, at the very least, border on DE, so the sentence should be considerably harsher.

But he goes further and strongly suggests that it would have been a verdict of DE if the judge had applied the principles correctly.

I realise it's not likely but, reading the appeal application, I do wonder whether another judge (or three) might actually give proper consideration to the circumstantial evidence that Masipa unaccountably ignored and come back with a verdict of DD.

I'll buy you all a drink if that happens. Don't know how...but I will!

 

[jay-jay]

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/otherspor...ic-medals-after-steriod-claims-in-muder-trial........... (doesn't work?, please do a search)

Oscar Pistorius could lose London 2012 Paralympic medals after steriod claims in murder trial

Pistorius, who has been charged with the premeditated murder of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, faces the additional ignominy of having his Paralympic world records annulled and having to return his London 2012 Paralympic medals if evidence is given during his trial that he was taking steroids before or during the London Games.

The World Anti-Doping Agency said that it would allow the criminal proceedings to run their course rather than open an immediate case against him.

“Wada is aware of the newspaper reports suggesting that steroids were found at the home of Oscar Pistorius,” Wada said in a statement to Telegraph Sport. “As this is a police matter, Wada and the South Africa Institute for Drug-Free Sport must work appropriately with the police. Bearing in mind the ongoing police investigation, Wada must refrain from making any statement at present.”

It is standard procedure for Wada and other anti-doping agencies to wait for a criminal investigation to finish before they take formal action, although evidence presented in the Pistorius trial could be used in a sports hearing.

That's reason enough for SA ............. I know, you understand.

BBM .. it does make you wonder, doesn't it ..

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Citypress: Big names support Safa’s gun-free campaign for Meyiwa

Reeva Steenkamp’s parents also sent a message of support to the campaign. Steenkamp was shot dead by Oscar Pistorius last year.

 

[Cherwell]

BIB 1 - No offence, but methinks you miss the point

1) The rumour leaked to the press wasn't that there were a few trophies "out of place" but according to the report in the Daily Star Sunday and the Oscar Pistorius' trophies were strewn all over the death flat and some were "damaged" according to the report in the Daily Star Sunday which is what was being discussed. So "strewn all around" and "some were damaged" is the premise I was working with.

2) Considering the time-span were looking at, (i.e. between the last volley and the police arriving), which "mates" you reckon could have "quickly picked them up and replaced them"? IIRC Carice and Stander were just 2 or 3 mins on the scene when Dr Stipp arrived and Stander stayed near or outside the door confirmed both by Baba, who arrived as they did, and Stipp who found him outside when he arrived. So unless Stipp joined a conspiracy with the Standers to pervert the course of justice for OP the only candidate would be Carice, who, in the few minutes after arriving and before, unknown to her, Dr Stipp would arrive, and without an inkling of what happened nor there being time enough for OP to explain and beg her, between wails, sobs, and pleas to help him save Reeva's life, and interject something to the effect of, 'would you mind helping me cover for killing my gf in a rage before the medics or the police arrive', no more than enter his home and with Reeva bleeding, dead, or dying in OP's arms or on the floor, noticed the mess and in a moment of organisational illumination decided that as she's there she might as well do a bit of tidying up for him, and being the hyper active person she is, in a jiffy whizzed around picking up and replacing all the trophies in the cabinet or on the shelf on top. BUT, and this is the real point you missed, Carice's work tidying up must have been all for nothing since either she or those "mates" must have strewn the trophies back onto the floor again so that a police source, according to some of the more dubious tabloid press, was able to see the mess and leak to the media that there were trophies strewn all around! ; - )

BIB 2 - I have no issue with your theory as a possibility even though I personally am not convinced that is how it went. But, I do have issue with 3 things:

Issue 1: That a "police source" could leak something as brutal as that to the press without it having been confirmed since that must surely have caused further distress to Reeva's family who were suffering enough with the fact she had been shot. Fortunately, the member of Reeva's family who ID'ed Reeva's body told the press they saw no injuries of that category.

Issue 2: That the tabloid and other nefarious press continued to plaster the story of the crushed skull on their front pages for weeks AFTER the bail hearing when it was confirmed that the autopsy showed no beating with the cricket bat.

Issue 3: To my knowledge not one newspaper has retracted the false information.

Others have made good points in response to this, so I needn't repeat them. By the way, I used the phrase "out of place" to embrace things being strewn around, etc. It was just an economical phrase to save a lengthier description.

Something you seem to have missed is that Dr Stipp left before the police arrived. He assumed that his details would be passed on to them, but curiously Team Pistorius omitted to mention his presence to the police, and Dr Stipp eventually contacted the police himself.

As for "leaks", someone could have carelessly let something slip. Bit like Carice mentioning the "lady" during her testimony.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Conflicting info AGAIN. So is the application going before Masipa or direct to the SCA?

Nathi Mncube ‏@mncube_nathi · 53m53 minutes ago
Now that the papers have been filed, we await the date of the hearing. The application for leave to appeal will be heard by
the same judge.


Personally speaking, I want it to go to Masipa. She either doesn't understand the law or has shown bias, or maybe both. Let's just say she and one assessor will be getting their just desserts.

Remember folks, a confident judge invariably allows an appeal because he/she believes a higher court will agree with his/her findings. It's a weak judge who lacks that belief that is more likely to turn it down. No matter, the State can and well may petition the SCA directly.

 

[Val1]

Others have made good points in response to this, so I needn't repeat them. By the way, I used the phrase "out of place" to embrace things being strewn around, etc. It was just an economical phrase to save a lengthier description.

Something you seem to have missed is that Dr Stipp left before the police arrived. He assumed that his details would be passed on to them, but curiously Team Pistorius omitted to mention his presence to the police, and Dr Stipp eventually contacted the police himself.

As for "leaks", someone could have carelessly let something slip. Bit like Carice mentioning the "lady" during her testimony.

BBM Or revealing that OP's sister aided and abetted him by removing evidence from the crime scene. Does anyone know if RS's parents ever did get the handbag back?

 

[jay-jay]

Others have made good points in response to this, so I needn't repeat them. By the way, I used the phrase "out of place" to embrace things being strewn around, etc. It was just an economical phrase to save a lengthier description.

Something you seem to have missed is that Dr Stipp left before the police arrived. He assumed that his details would be passed on to them, but curiously Team Pistorius omitted to mention his presence to the police, and Dr Stipp eventually contacted the police himself.

As for "leaks", someone could have carelessly let something slip. Bit like Carice mentioning the "lady" during her testimony.

Thanks, Cherwell .. that's something I hadn't twigged before .. fancy non of them mentioning Dr Stipp to the police, I mean you just would wouldn't you .. normally ..

 

[zwiebel]

The appeal papers being lodged caught me on the hop - although I knew they only had 14 days, I've become so accustomed to things taking their time in SA! It's very good news, and the right news as well, I believe. I'm just reading the papers now.

* I couldn't help but notice that over in the Dewani trial, his lawyer seems to have taken up Roux's; 'We will show the court, but I'll return to that later' tactic. The man's started a fashion it seems and I can't understand why judges are allowing them to get away with it. Evidence should be presented, not suggested it will be at some unspecified point, and then conveniently forgotten, in my opinion.