Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[mrjitty]

The appeal is the awesome!

 

[jay-jay]

conceding a 'maybe', leaves only one option, that there was an argument, but the defence are hoping that no-one heard it [at the bail stage].

~rsbm~

I'm certain they must've known there was one, what with what you have said there plus the fact that they never disputed that EVDM heard an argument, all they said is that she must've been mistaken as to where it was coming from .. in other words, they accepted she had actually heard an argument.

 

[pandax81]

The sentence of 5 years imprisonment in terms of Section 276 (1)(i) of Act 51 of 1977 for the murder of Reeva Steenkamp...

The pit bull is back in the playpen, and he has one thing on his mind!

 

[sleuth-d-]

~rsbm~

I'm certain they must've known there was one, what with what you have said there plus the fact that they never disputed that EVDM heard an argument, all they said is that she must've been mistaken as to where it was coming from .. in other words, they accepted she had actually heard an argument.

and mrs vdm also heard the tests/re-enactment voices conducted by the defence - in the same house.

 

[zwiebel]

Hi Zwiebel, nice to have you back on board. Even though it was stated that it was 14 days, the NPA came out on Monday and said that wasn't the case. In any event, yesterday, they said they'd done the application and were just "polishing it off". Lots of happy people here tonight.

O/T I haven't been following Dewani live via twitter, just reading articles. I've read where VZ is doing well and that the PT advocate is very weak. Is that correct or a bad opinion on someone's part?

I'm not sure that it's defense being so good, or just that the present witness is so bad. He'll be released in a few years and is intent on making himself out to be a 'good guy'?? contract-killer negotiator, rather than being truthful, it seems. And one witness has died,of course. In the UK or US, I'm sure Dewani would go to jail. After OP's trial though, I have my doubts prosecution will secure a conviction in SA, for Dewani. Especially as it seems the judge won't allow his homosexual lover to give important evidence.

 

[Giles]

I'm several pages behind, just catching up on the days events.

I've just read through the Appeal document. Wow, I think it's fantastic. I wasn't expecting anything nearly this good. The State have finally produced a compelling and cohesive written argument - and just when they needed it the most.

Initially I thought they were just going to question the sentence and ask for clarification on dolus eventualis but they have gone all in. They don't call Gerrie Nel the 'Pit bull' for nothing. He is not letting go, is he?

There're lots of things I didn't think they'd be able to touch because they can only appeal points of law, but they have cleverly included the handling of circumstantial evidence and the 'plethora of defenses'.

If Oscar is aware of this, I don't think he'll be sleeping too well in his cell tonight.

 

[foxbluff]

I believe it was Uncle A who asked for the ban to be lifted. Why would Roux make that decision without any family input? And since OP wasn't tested for alcohol until such times as there would have been none left in his system, no one could be absolutely sure it wasn't alcohol related. As I said before, why ask for a restriction on alcohol to be lifted if the killer supposedly didn't drink alcohol?

BBM - I still don't believe it was Uncle Arnold who asked for the restriction on alcohol to be lifted. As far as family input goes, it could well be that Roux discussed the matter with O. Pistorius.

UBM - I think the reason police didn't rush OP off for an alcohol test first thing was because they saw no evidence that OP was under the influence of alcohol. (Had they thought so, imo they could have given him a simple breath-analysis onsite which would indicate whether or not they needed to put a rush having him further tested.)

RE: Last sentence in Soozie's post: It was Uncle A. who incorrectly thought OP never drank. Roux and OP knew better. I believe that the reason behind Roux asking the Court to remove the restriction was twofold. #1 It was an unreasonable restriction due to neither the DT nor the PT claiming that OP was drinking the night he killed RS. #2 The restriction could imply that alcohol was involved.

 

[patCee]

It was Uncle A. who incorrectly thought OP never drank. Roux and OP knew better. I believe that the reason behind Roux asking the Court to remove the restriction was twofold. #1 It was an unreasonable restriction due to neither the DT nor the PT claiming that OP was drinking the night he killed RS. #2 The restriction could imply that alcohol was involved.

RSBM

It could also have been because they knew OP's previous history of heavy drinking bouts, and wanted the restriction lifted to reduce the possibility of him being in breach of bail conditions during the trial.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Woke up this morning to the GREAT news.

Were I not following things, here, at first glance at the title I would have immediately assumed that his case was being appealed by his DT to REDUCE his verdict and sentence.

In the US, it in inconceivable that anyone could appeal going in the opposite direction.

Thank goodness this is in SA!

 

[foxbluff]

RSBM

It could also have been because they knew OP's previous history of heavy drinking bouts, and wanted the restriction lifted to reduce the possibility of him being in breach of bail conditions during the trial.

Ohhh... I totally accept that as being one of the reasons !!

O/T question: R[? ] Snipped By Me

 

[soozieqtips]

BBM - I still don't believe it was Uncle Arnold who asked for the restriction on alcohol to be lifted.

~snipped~

Arnold says banning Oscar from having alcohol is not fair.

“It’s not relevant because he doesn’t drink alcohol at all,” Arnold said.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-s-uncle-wants-to-take-him-to-moz-1.1484657

It makes sense that it was Uncle A who asked for the restriction to be lifted, as he's the one who said it was unfair to impose it in the first place.

From the same article: "Oscar also feels reporting to the Brooklyn Police Station twice a week is an unreasonable bail condition". This is the same guy who said he would respect his bail conditions.

 

[patCee]

Ohhh... I totally accept that as being one of the reasons !!

O/T question: R[? ] Snipped By Me

Respectfully.

 

[ColonelMustard]

BBM That's quite possible, someone had posted one of the Prof's tweets asking for a translation for an article awhile back and it mentioned he had some homework(or some such description) to do for him.

What I would like to know is whether anyone has taken note of the books and what they were in one of the pics of OP's kitchen? From the titles I could read there was more than one that was all about forensics, detectives, profiling, psychology, narcissists and mind games kind of stuff(that being gleaned from doing simple searches for book reviews on the titles/authors). Looks like OP was doing his own homework since his supposed interests were running and architecture...

View attachment 62693

Val1, this is fascinating to me that I decided to give it a try myself. Later today, I'll post my results.

Maybe we can compile a running list.

Can you direct me to the original photo?

Thanks!!

 

[Interested Bystander]

This is a very interesting read from Professor Grant. It is not new but I don't recall having read it before or it being posted on the forum. Apologies if I am wrong.

http://criminallawza.net/2014/04/08/the-perplexing-problem-of-proof/

 

[ColonelMustard]

VAL1,

Since you already posted your list, here's mine, so far. Most match. I still want to check using the original photo if you can direct me to it.

Gotta love the one in red. Who knew?

A book by Alex Cross


Inside Steve's brain

Throughout his storied Silicon Valley career, Apple CEO and Pixar Studios founder Steve Jobs has been labeled, among other things, an egomaniac, a Zen Buddhist, a business mastermind, a sociopath and a music mogul. Blogger, author and Wired News editor Kahney, who has chronicled Apple in previous books (The Cult of Mac), attempts to plumb the depths of Jobs's prodigious mind in this engrossing biography. The author devotes much time to the sensational aspects of Jobs' life, including his demeaning and ferocious interactions with employees, his relentless high-mindedness and fanatical attention to detail, clearly demonstrating how his tyrannical and perfectionist impulses have have shaped the award-winning designs and consumer-friendly products that have made Apple a juggernaut. Though it doesn't penetrate the Mac man's psyche too deeply, and sections on tangential figures like Apple design guru Jonathan Ive and Apple Store visionary Ron Johnson can meander, those searching for a telling portrait of Jobs's management style and its impact on Apple will not be left wanting.


Byleveld: dossier of a serial sleuth

Former Brigadier Piet Byleveld is recognised worldwide as one of the best detectives of our time. If you commit murder and Piet Byl is called in, your place in jail is booked. If you harmed children anf he's on your case, you’ve sealed your own fate. And if you’re a serial killer on the loose, he will not stop before you are behind bars.
This book reopens the dockets of numerous murders that this courteous detective has solved over the years. Gruesome, tragic, exciting – and with the satisfaction that justice had prevailed.
In-between we get the measure of the man Byleveld: how he matured in the tough world of the Brixton Murder and Robbery Squad; how he prevailed over deep personal setbacks; and the values this farm boy carried with him to make an unprecedented success of society’s grimmest job.


A book by Stephen Irving ???


Love Sick: Love as a Mental Illness by Dr. Frank Tallis

Obsessive thoughts, erratic mood swings, insomnia, loss of appetite, recurrent and persistent images and impulses, superstitious or ritualistic compulsions, delusion, the inability to concentrate—exhibiting just five or six of these symptoms is enough to merit a diagnosis of a major depressive episode. Yet we all subconsciously welcome these symptoms when we allow ourselves to fall in love. In Love Sick, Dr. Frank Tallis, a leading authority on obsessive disorders, considers our experiences and expressions of love, and why the combinations of pleasure and pain, ecstasy and despair, rapture and grief have come to characterize what we mean when we speak of falling in love. Tallis examines why the agony associated with romantic love continues to be such a popular subject for poets, philosophers, songwriters, and scientists, and questions just how healthy our attitudes are and whether there may in fact be more sane, less tortured ways to love.


A Thousand Paths to Tranquility by David Baird

 

[ColonelMustard]

This seemed like a strange title for a book for OP to have and I was curious. I googled a review of it and found the first chapter. One screen's worth was more than enough for me. Why would a man have such a book. Indeed, why would he have some of the others. He's one very, very strange individual IMO.

Love Sick: One Woman's Journey Through Sexual Addiction (entire first chapter)

http://www.suewilliamsilverman.com/..._addiction__now_available_in_paperb_12175.htm

I figured it was given to him by Amy or another woman friend when he was trying to get over Sam Taylor

 

[foxbluff]

~snipped~


It makes sense that it was Uncle A who asked for the restriction to be lifted, as he's the one who said it was unfair to impose it in the first place.
From the same article: "Oscar also feels reporting to the Brooklyn Police Station twice a week is an unreasonable bail condition". This is the same guy who said he would respect his bail conditions.

UBM - Isn't he just commenting after the application has been made?

I hate to use such a timeworn expression, but I believe at this point we need to agree to disagree. In the article you linked Uncle A. is giving his personal opinion on several of the restrictions Roux has just applied to the Court to have lifted.

I've no doubt that OP and his family would have preferred that no restrictions be imposed on him to begin with.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Thanks for this, CM .. I don't remember this bit at all (possibly one of the times where I was faffing about trying to find a live video streaming link that would actually work .. there were many such times throughout the trial, and very annoying they were, too!). Could you give a rough time on that vid (and the remind me which day it was, pls) so that I can check it out .. TIA!

Edited to say I've just seen the date (15 April) .. so it would've been that vid and the day before's vid, so it would be great to have the times in the vids for both of them, thanks

Mr. Fossil mentioned a few posts below this one saying he thought it might have been a conversation about the window. He's right about most things ( everything) so he may be right but I wrote my post the second after I heard that exchange and, as I sit here, now, still feel it's about the light.

Have to go vote (US) and do errands, then will come back and figure this out. If I am correct, I'll find the dates and times of the others for you.

THAT being said, MF has the entire transcript. If I'm wrong, I'm going to cry louder than OP because I think it really will confirm or me that I'm losing my mind. (not sarcasm)

 

[Cherwell]

It makes sense that it was Uncle A who asked for the restriction to be lifted, as he's the one who said it was unfair to impose it in the first place.

From the same article: "Oscar also feels reporting to the Brooklyn Police Station twice a week is an unreasonable bail condition". This is the same guy who said he would respect his bail conditions.

Bet he'd settle for that now. :lol:

 

[ColonelMustard]

I'm still amazed at how two people were supposedly able to leave a bed looking like only one person had spent any time on it...
View attachment 62730

Or how someone would leave something like this out while claiming to be sooo in love with someone else, heck even if just dating someone you don't leave pics of "ex" gf's on display, it's called respect. Methinks that call to this "ex" as OP was entering the complex had quite a bit to do with what happened later that night.
View attachment 62732

Also, why would anyone keep a cheque like this on their kitchen counter? Weren't the London games months before or was this just a display copy(trophy)?
View attachment 62731

Or how anyone, let alone a judge, could possibly think that shots like this weren't meant to hit someone sitting on the loo....
View attachment 62733

Pics thanks to http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/

That big check is just a prop, I think, like the ones in the US they give to Publisher's House Clearing Winners.