Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[44ALLAN]

Probably some misunderstanding of the terminology.

It is Masipa who is being requested by the prosecution to put questions (of law) to the SCA. This is the form by which the state 'appeals the conviction'.

However, Masipa must write a report for the SCA "giving her opinion upon the case or upon any point arising in the case" if she grants the appeal, or if she refuses and the state petitions the SCA as a consequence.

Thanks for the explanation pandax much appreciated.
I did misunderstand the wording in the application and thought she would be required to explain her reasoning 'vocally' to the SCA and not by a report !.
I still think,however,she will be found wanting in her decision by a higher court.
But who am I

 

[ColonelMustard]

Mr. Fossil mentioned a few posts below this one saying he thought it might have been a conversation about the window. He's right about most things ( everything) so he may be right but I wrote my post the second after I heard that exchange and, as I sit here, now, still feel it's about the light.

Have to go vote (US) and do errands, then will come back and figure this out. If I am correct, I'll find the dates and times of the others for you.

THAT being said, MF has the entire transcript. If I'm wrong, I'm going to cry louder than OP because I think it really will confirm or me that I'm losing my mind. (not sarcasm)

Dearest jay-jay and anyone else who may have read my original post and/or any follow-up posts, I was 100% wrong. OP did NOT admit that Reeva had turned on the light. It was, in fact, the window being open.

My deepest appreciation to Mr. Fossil for catching this immediately and allowing me to set things straight.

 

[44ALLAN]

Agree with every word....but...DE IS murder. It's not manslaughter or murder lite....proper full on murder. That should make you feel a bit better!

I know but they still mention 'bordering on' DE .....................why fgs!!!

He should have told her when asked about sentence..............." M'lady, with the utmost respect your verdict is total crap".
You and your assessors have totally ignored everything that has been put before you by the state.!
You have ignored every state witness and every photograph that was presented to you by the police photographers as witnessed by them on arriving at the scene.
You have basically called them all liars and the work they do is not honest.

4 people heard a woman screaming for her life and even after seeing their testimony and the absolute heartbreak and life changing event they witnessed you ignored it.
You should step down from office immediately and your assessors should not be allowed near a court of law ever again.

To tell the truth...............no it doesn't make me feel better lol.
This will drag on for a long time and the defence will make sure it does.
And before the appeal gets to any advanced stage OP will be home and not in SA that's for sure.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Sis.................everything OP said was a lie.
He knew where she was and he knew what he was doing it's as simple as that.

The prosecution know it...........
The defence know it..............
The judge knew it...........
The assessors for sure knew it...............
99.9% of the worlds lawyers know it.............
99.99999% of the world watching this FARCE know it................

He's a murdering and I'm lost for words why this 'application' is still mentioning /................ bordering on DE.
Why Nel?
It was murder.
You asked for it originally and your asking for it now ....AFTER the trial !!
He flippin knew where she was and he executed her and half the bloody estate heard it..............geezus wept ( nice geordie phrase and not religious at all btw )
You blew the trial being a puppy dog against all reviews of being a pitbull.....................given your chance by Masipa you asked for 10 year minimum !!!!!! wtf !!
She gave 5 year neigh 10 month !.
What was that all about eh !!!

Sod the respect to the court...............you should have said " M'lady I'm sorry but your verdict is a whole pile of crap and half the world is baying for your head do you want to consider? "
That is basically what you have just done with this application to appeal.
Lots of people making lots of money...............it stinks it really does.

4 witnesses to a woman screaming for her life just before the same witnesses heard loud noises/gunshots at the same time a women was butchered with gunshots in the same estate!
A photo ( 55) taken by the police photographer when entering the scene which totally and I mean TOTALLY shows the accused is lying and the judge and her assessors ignore this !

Sorry to all you Nel supporters out there but I could have prosecuted the case better than this and I'm an Electrician fgs !

Anyway rant over



You asked for murder originally why not stick to it..................probably too late now even though the appeal sounds good................you should have said all that during the trial though fgs !

Bro, I can FEEL your passion ...THANK-YOU for sharing your outrage!!! Sometimes, I don't think there's ENOUGH outrage in the world, especially about justice.

Letting it all out, verbally or in writing is, I think, probably healthy. Healthier, for sure, than internalizing everything (oh, my bleeding ulcer) like I do or eating. The day she read the verdict, I was so upset that I literally ate 5 pints (big containers) of 5 different kinds pf Ben & Jerry's ice cream. ( If it's not sold where you are, it's DELICIOUS and HIGHLY caloric - exceptionally high butterfat content and full of big chunks of whatever the flavor is. Ummmm.

I was so upset, I was on auto-eat. I really didn't even taste them AND I'm paying for it now. The good news is that with the GREAT news of the appeal today I'm happier, calmer, and eating salads, again.

I don't recall being aware that you were a other-than Nel fan, in terms of how he prosecuted the case. I probably just missed it, overwhelmed by my surprise that we had been separated at birth!
Thank you for saying so and explain why you feel the way you do about Nel's job.

The "bordering on DE" part in the request for appeal stopped me, too. I reread it a couple of time but still didn't understand it. I thought maybe he had to write it that way because that was what he said in the sentencing phase? Further along in the document, I THINK I read it more strongly worded that the State actually feels it IS DE. Could be wrong.

As far as his asking for 10 years like he did, I truly have NO idea what that was about but my gut feeling, at that moment was that he was signaling to her that if she gave him 10 years the State wouldn't or might not consider an appeal (of the sentence). Again, I don't know.

(Since it turned out I was 100% wrong about the light, I'm going to add one of two things at then end of every paragraph I write:

1. I don't know
2. Make sure you ask Mr. Fossil

Your last line is HILARIOUS:

"Sorry to all you Nel supporters out there but I could have prosecuted the case better than this and I'm an Electrician fgs !

In my next life, I'm going to come back and have a career doing something PRACTICAL like that!!

 

[akp]

I know but they still mention 'bordering on' DE .....................why fgs!!!

He should have told her when asked about sentence..............." M'lady, with the utmost respect your verdict is total crap".
You and your assessors have totally ignored everything that has been put before you by the state.!
You have ignored every state witness and every photograph that was presented to you by the police photographers as witnessed by them on arriving at the scene.
You have basically called them all liars and the work they do is not honest.

4 people heard a woman screaming for her life and even after seeing their testimony and the absolute heartbreak and life changing event they witnessed you ignored it.
You should step down from office immediately and your assessors should not be allowed near a court of law ever again.

To tell the truth...............no it doesn't make me feel better lol.
This will drag on for a long time and the defence will make sure it does.
And before the appeal gets to any advanced stage OP will be home and not in SA that's for sure.

The reason they can not say all that is that this is only an appeal. And till the appeal is heard and a possibly new decision is reached, Masipa's verdict stays. So one can say all that you are saying in private conversations, but you can not write that in an official document. That would be contempt of court.

 

[Val1]

Val1, this is fascinating to me that I decided to give it a try myself. Later today, I'll post my results.

Maybe we can compile a running list.

Can you direct me to the original photo?

Thanks!!

I grabbed that from http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/pictures-from-behind-the-doorone-tragic-night/ and if you're successful with that one, or one of the other pics shown, can you try for the books in OP's bedroom too?



Umm, I just realized why this magazine caught my attention, the dress on the front page appears to be the one RS is wearing a few pages back(link below), was it her on the front page of what appears to be Cosmopolitan?


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?261268-Post-sentencing-discussion-and-the-upcoming-appeal&p=11163038#post11163038

 

[Val1]

That big check is just a prop, I think, like the ones in the US they give to Publisher's House Clearing Winners.

View attachment 62756

K, though I know they're often also legit currency(see charity events with over sized cheques).

 

[ColonelMustard]

I know but they still mention 'bordering on' DE .....................why fgs!!!

He should have told her when asked about sentence..............." M'lady, with the utmost respect your verdict is total crap".
You and your assessors have totally ignored everything that has been put before you by the state.!
You have ignored every state witness and every photograph that was presented to you by the police photographers as witnessed by them on arriving at the scene.
You have basically called them all liars and the work they do is not honest.

4 people heard a woman screaming for her life and even after seeing their testimony and the absolute heartbreak and life changing event they witnessed you ignored it.
You should step down from office immediately and your assessors should not be allowed near a court of law ever again.

To tell the truth...............no it doesn't make me feel better lol.
This will drag on for a long time and the defence will make sure it does.
And before the appeal gets to any advanced stage OP will be home and not in SA that's for sure.

If there's a a retrial, I agree, it will "drag on," but you've got a good point. If it took 12+ months for the SC to make a judgement the guy might already be out and on mansion supervision. At the same, I think they'll fast track this, just like they did his trial.

 

[ColonelMustard]

I grabbed that from http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/pictures-from-behind-the-doorone-tragic-night/ and if you're successful with that one, or one of the other pics shown, can you try for the books in OP's bedroom too?
View attachment 62797
View attachment 62799

Umm, I just realized why this magazine caught my attention, the dress on the front page appears to be the one RS is wearing a few pages back(link below), was it her on the front page of what appears to be Cosmopolitan?
View attachment 62798

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-the-upcoming-appeal&p=11163038#post11163038

VAL1, thanks for the sources and the follow-up questions. I'm going to borrow Mr. Fossil's sleuthing cap and dive in. ...Will report back.
:websleuther:

 

[JudgeJudi]

UBM - Isn't he just commenting after the application has been made?

I hate to use such a timeworn expression, but I believe at this point we need to agree to disagree. In the article you linked Uncle A. is giving his personal opinion on several of the restrictions Roux has just applied to the Court to have lifted.

I've no doubt that OP and his family would have preferred that no restrictions be imposed on him to begin with.

Arnold can say whatever he likes to whoever he likes, but he is not Roux's client. Arnold may have suggested this restriction to OP but Roux would not be taking instructions from Arnold. If both Arnold and OP attended a conference together with Roux, Arnold may well have raised it, but only OP can tell Roux he wants the restriction lifted.

 

[Jake18]

I know but they still mention 'bordering on' DE .....................why fgs!!!

He should have told her when asked about sentence..............." M'lady, with the utmost respect your verdict is total crap".
You and your assessors have totally ignored everything that has been put before you by the state.!
You have ignored every state witness and every photograph that was presented to you by the police photographers as witnessed by them on arriving at the scene.
You have basically called them all liars and the work they do is not honest.

4 people heard a woman screaming for her life and even after seeing their testimony and the absolute heartbreak and life changing event they witnessed you ignored it.
You should step down from office immediately and your assessors should not be allowed near a court of law ever again.

To tell the truth...............no it doesn't make me feel better lol.
This will drag on for a long time and the defence will make sure it does.
And before the appeal gets to any advanced stage OP will be home and not in SA that's for sure.

My interpretation is that the Appeal Document is in two parts. The first is related to the sentence which Nel is arguing is inappropriately light for a CH verdict that, as Masipa herself stated is "bordering on DE".

The second is relating to the verdict which the State has a number of issues with; this includes whether the law regarding DE was interpreted appropriately (the State say not). So the appeal is both against the verdict of CH but also the short sentence for the CH which, in this case, involved a firearm, firing 4 times though a door etc.

I personally loved the way the document referred to OP's plethora of defences and the inference that he Judge picked the ones that suited her verdict, i.e. she ignored him saying that he "didn't mean to shoot" but opted for the other version that had him meaning to defend himself but not to kill.

 

[jilly]

You'd have thought not. The judge is responsible for the sentence (as she clarified when she appeared for sentencing with her Assessors at each side) and the law. The Assessors assist with fact. But I don't know for certain.

I wouldn't write her out of this script tho. We've read that she's doing a Doctorate on Hollistic sentencing and that she's an advocate for criminal defense. She's interested in paraplegics and may have a relative with this disability.
According to Wiki, Masipa appointed both Assessors.

It's been commented that Masipa read her Verdict like it was the first time seeing it and used terminology which was unlike her.
This whole thing stinks.

Nothing would surprise me at this point.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Really! The SC gets to/will actually question MASIPA????
Will that be in private?
If so, will the transcript be available later?

ANYTHING to get some clue about what she could POSSIBLY have been thinking in this clusterf*ck

Colonel, please see your post p.13 #303. The only part of the quote that's mine is the tweet right at the beginning (original on p.11. #257). If you look at p.11 #262, you'll see it's a copy and paste of part of my post, not a"Reply with Quote". The entire balance is 44Allan's reply, and credit needs to go to him for that good reply.

 

[Greater Than]

So the PT filed their appeal?

Maybe Reeva will get the justice she deserves after all.

 

[Cherwell]

My interpretation is that the Appeal Document is in two parts. The first is related to the sentence which Nel is arguing is inappropriately light for a CH verdict that, as Masipa herself stated is "bordering on DE".

The second is relating to the verdict which the State has a number of issues with; this includes whether the law regarding DE was interpreted appropriately (the State say not). So the appeal is both against the verdict of CH but also the short sentence for the CH which, in this case, involved a firearm, firing 4 times though a door etc.

I personally loved the way the document referred to OP's plethora of defences and the inference that he Judge picked the ones that suited her verdict, i.e. she ignored him saying that he "didn't mean to shoot" but opted for the other version that had him meaning to defend himself but not to kill.

BIB That's exactly what I was thinking.

I was going to post something similar as I was sure I remembered Masipa saying that, but then I couldn't find a transcript of her sentencing spiel, so couldn't check..

 

[JudgeJudi]

James Grant @CriminalLawZA · 12h 12 hours ago
For me, a desperately necessary appeal - the long road to Bloemfontein ahead.

James Grant @CriminalLawZA · 11h 11 hours ago
Nel's question on circumstantial evidence promises to have us perplexed & talking about rope vs chain reasoning - see http://wp.me/p3efQr-1X

James Grant @CriminalLawZA · 6h 6 hours ago
First step in understanding circumstantial evidence is to recognise that no witness, indeed no one, has direct access to reality.

 

[JudgeJudi]

David Dadic @DavidDadic · 9h 9 hours ago

Now that we have formal confirmation of the appeal, I'll do that blog post on the appeal process. Hopefully by the weekend. If there's power

 

[JudgeJudi]

And last but not least

Carl Pistorius @carlpistorius · 7h 7 hours ago

"I think everybody should get rich & famous & do everything they ever dreamed of, so they can see that it's not the answer." - Jim Carrey

 

[MsMarple]

Just popping in to say how refreshing it was to read the appeal document; orderly, logical and to the point. Very different from Masipa's judgment where she hopped all over the place, making it very hard to follow, and so many words devoted to Oscar's “remorse.”

Reading that Masipa called Oscar sticking his fingers in Reeva's mouth an attempt to resuscitate her turned my stomach – really, M'Lady?

I'm also glad to see that the appeal includes the charge of the ammo in the safe. Would Masipa have reasoned the same if it had been other contraband, say cocaine or... rhino horns? Since when is claiming it belongs to someone else evidence of innocence?

In some ways I think the appeal process will tarnish Oscar's reputation more than a slightly longer sentence would have, if for no other reason than it keeps Reeva's killing in the headlines longer and people now will be following and discussing points of the law rather than Oscar's tears and vomit. In the end it will bring clarity to what really transpired that night.

 

[ColonelMustard]

1. During OP's testimony was he sitting or standing up the whole time, or some of each?

2. Did he, literally, never look at Nel. If so, he was just staring at Masipa the whole time, even when there were long pauses while other things were being said or clarifications made that involved other people ( e.g., Nel checking with the folks behind him)