Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[jay-jay]

Here's a link to an interesting article posted today. It states that Oscar is getting a PRIVATE BATH built for him in prison "so Oscar doesn't have to walk past a number of prisoners to get to the toilet".

I find this hard to believe. (I might be inclined to believe it if Oscar had actually received a lengthy sentence for killing Reeva. Uncle Arnold would make appropriate "donations" and OP would be fixed up with some special accommodations. But as one article stated, "Oscar didn't receive a sentence, more like a phrase". So not buying it.) At the end of the article a Correctional services spokesperson, Wolela, stated not so. The bath was being built before OP found guilty and sentenced.

Article also states OP moved to different wing after a prisoner flooded the wing Oscar housed in. The wing he was moved to is somewhat "smaller, less comfortable and tighter security". He was moved due to fear he might slip. He will be moved back after the wing & it's flood damage has been fully repaired.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-gets-private-bath/

I'm guessing most of article just tabloid "fuel" for their CityPress readers, but a few small tidbits of info that some may want to read.

.. from that link ..

Pistorius, who does not mingle with other prisoners, even at meal times, has become extremely depressed in jail.

His fellow inmates, sources say, have even been encouraging him to see the prison counsellor.

They have told him “he would not be regarded as a sissie” if he asked for help.

“He has even cried on occasion,” said the source. “He really is battling with prison.”

BBN .. what's new? :facepalm:

Sources say that Pistorius is apparently frustrated by the fact that everyone around him is so negative.

“Other inmates and wardens feel sorry for him or ashamed of his fall from grace and keep burdening him with their feelings,” the source said.

“He is so tired of everybody wanting something from him and just wants to think positively and believe in God that his ordeal will soon be over.”

BBM - well, it will be won't it, he's only got about 9 months left to serve now.

 

[LemonMousse]

Maybe I sound heartless and cold, but really, this stuff about the killer being depressed and crying makes me think.....good.

If he'd been honest from the beginning - held up his hands and admitted he'd seen red, expressed genuine and sincere remorse and demonstrated it by telling the truth regardless of the consequences for him, then I could have found some sympathy. Anyone is capable of doing a terrible thing if you get the perfect storm of events and emotions colliding....as I believe happened that night.

But to stand up and disrespect Reeva and her family by lying through his teeth and - worse, imo - taking the view that he shouldn't even have been charged is utterly abhorant and disgusting.

So you keep sobbing your feeble, cowardly guts up, Pistorius....none of the terror and fear you will ever feel comes close to how Reeva felt in that toilet that night just before you gunned her down like a trapped animal.

Oh, and I for one am not buying the pious "God is with me" nonsense. True Christians do not put their hands on Bibles, swear an oath to tell the truth and then lie. They do not.

 

[jay-jay]

Maybe I sound heartless and cold, but really, this stuff about the killer being depressed and crying makes me think.....good.

If he'd been honest from the beginning - held up his hands and admitted he'd seen red, expressed genuine and sincere remorse and demonstrated it by telling the truth regardless of the consequences for him, then I could have found some sympathy. Anyone is capable of doing a terrible thing if you get the perfect storm of events and emotions colliding....as I believe happened that night.

But to stand up and disrespect Reeva and her family by lying through his teeth and - worse, imo - taking the view that he shouldn't even have been charged is utterly abhorant and disgusting.

So you keep sobbing your feeble, cowardly guts up, Pistorius....none of the terror and fear you will ever feel comes close to how Reeva felt in that toilet that night just before you gunned her down like a trapped animal.

Oh, and I for one am not buying the pious "God is with me" nonsense. True Christians do not put their hands on Bibles, swear an oath to tell the truth and then lie. They do not.

BBM .. agree with the rest of your post, but not the BBM .. I don't believe that it's a situation (i.e an act of domestic violence) that just about 'anyone' could find themselves in, as it is only those who are violent abusers in the first place who would be capable of murdering (or even harming) their partner simply because they flew into a rage. Over a hundred women a year are killed in those exact circumstances in this country (UK), and it isn't acceptable in any shape or form, so even if he admitted to it right from the off, it would still make him a vile murderer just like hundreds of other men who kill their partners (or ex partners). He deserves no sympathy whatsover, imo, just that it makes it even more sickening that he's been able to lie with such ease, under oath to his god.

 

[jilly]

Why didn't he deny it then?

I would think that he's well in tune with the right to remain silent....except when it comes to tweeting.

 

[LemonMousse]

BBM .. agree with the rest of your post, but not the BBM .. I don't believe that it's a situation (i.e an act of domestic violence) that just about 'anyone' could find themselves in, as it is only those who are violent abusers in the first place who would be capable of murdering (or even harming) their partner simply because they flew into a rage. Over a hundred women a year are killed in those exact circumstances in this country (UK), and it isn't acceptable in any shape or form, so even if he admitted to it right from the off, it would still make him a vile murderer just like hundreds of other men who kill their partners (or ex partners). He deserves no sympathy whatsover, imo, just that it makes it even more sickening that he's been able to lie with such ease, under oath to his god.

Sorry, but no way....not way AT ALL did I even begin to suggest that violence and DV are in any way acceptable. I am rather appalled that you would choose to take that from my post.

And there is quite clearly a difference between someone losing control and then immediately taking full responsibility and owning up and some one lying through their teeth. The courts recognise that, and so do I.

He would still have been a murderer, still deserved life....but perhaps I, personally, would not have despised him quite so much as I do. You can think otherwise if you wish.

And I do indeed believe most human beings are capable of doing terrible things, in the right circumstances. Very naive not to understand that.

 

[foxbluff]

Sorry, but no way....not way AT ALL did I even begin to suggest that violence and DV are in any way acceptable. I am rather appalled that you would choose to take that from my post.

And there is quite clearly a difference between someone losing control and then immediately taking full responsibility and owning up and some one lying through their teeth. The courts recognise that, and so do I.

He would still have been a murderer, still deserved life....but perhaps I, personally, would not have despised him quite so much as I do. You can think otherwise if you wish.

And I do indeed believe most human beings are capable of doing terrible things, in the right circumstances. Very naive not to understand that.

BBM - I'm willing to take that a step further. Imho it's not just "most" humans, it's "all" humans.

 

[Bergi]

Hello, does anyone know if there is a transcript of what each of Oscar Pistorius' neighbours said during the trial?

 

[4MrsB]

Thanks for the link, it is a good find. There are some intelligent observations and comments here. I think his explanation is balanced and fair.

This is why we need the appeal, we need to fully understand the reasoning behind the decision. If Masipa had reasoned her judgement like this guy, I for one, would have felt a lot better about it.

It's a shame the video is put together in such a 'user unfriendly' way. It's like someone was experimenting with some new video editing software and tried to be a little too clever... Anyhow, a minor detail, the content is really interesting.

Thanks again.

I agree he makes some intelligent comments & observations. He also sounds knowledgable about both SA law and English law, and he applies detailed explanations that are somewhat easy to follow. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to the technical explanations he offered. And I totally agree....this appeal is much needed and will give us clarity.

However, I have a problem with him reaching "culpable homicide" as the correct judgement based on the reasoning he uses. After his detailed explanation on the differences between CH vs DE and then seems to (a) contradict himself when choosing CH, throwing out some key points that support DE that he just mentioned, and (b) selects OP's versions of events in which to base this judgement on, due to a very weak point that is not supported by anything.

1st: he doesn't seem to know (or at least he doesn't mention them) much of the nitty gritty facts of the case, which are obviously important before weighing in on what you believe the verdict should be. He stated a few times, I think he said this or did that. He also never touches on any of the ear witness testimony or evidence that supports OP's version not holding any water (i.e. - Reeva's stomach contents, neighbor hears arguing for an hour+, ear witnesses - even testifying to pause after 1st bullet and that later being supported by ballistics expert, ear witnesses hearing woman's screams up to last set of shots, 1:48am phone data/activity, photos taken of crime scene and bedroom that contradict OP's version, duvet/jeans and blood pattern contradicting OP, and more. I'm not even mentioning the weak & embarrassing testimony offered up by defense witnesses & Oscar's mess on the bench). As Col.M points out up thread, the commentator mentions that it's improbable OP would kill Reeva as it would damage his career, therefore more likely OP's version is the scenario to accept. Col.M highly disagrees with this reasoning, as do I. It's a bit of a shortcut in arriving at CH isn't it? (Personally, I think OP went into one of his rages/crazy fits of anger - demonstrating his power/control over the situation - and went too far. Once he realized the situation had escalated to Reeva phoning or eventually involving police or the public, he knew his choices were either: killing Reeva or killing his career. He chose to save his career. Thinking Oscar Pistorius could fast talk his way out of this, just as he's been able to do in the past.)

2nd: he states that D.E. can be (with regards to "intent" and the possibility of knowing you might kill the individual behind the closed door) an "appreciation at a preconscious level of a realistic possibility" . . . but significant enough to affect conscious thought and action.

I would think the fact that OP testified that the reason he didn't fire a warning shot into the shower, for fear it might ricochet, proof enough that OP clearly understood and had a conscious appreciation of the damage 4 bullets would do, fired into the small toilet area. Highly probable any single shot would kill person locked behind door. Couple that with OP's gun exam and the testimony proving he clearly knew & understood SA gun laws. I think these two points alone, prove beyond a reasonable doubt, "intent"and therefore DE.

3rd: this guy sounded like he was following in Judge M footsteps. Throwing out all the important testimony that collaborated one another and that contradicted OP's version , all for what reason? Because OP said so? Or because OP would never throw away his position held high up on that SA pedestal away, in a fit of anger? Domestic violence comes in all shapes & sizes, rich/poor, professional athletes (that's a common reoccurrence replayed in newspapers all around the globe), celebrities, powerful politicians, old/young, etc.

However, once this person concludes OP's version must be only version to be considered, he still IMO, is incorrect in concluding CH, due to the points of law (re DE) he brings up that I've already mentioned under #2.

Seems so strange IMO, that all this discussion is hashed and rehashed over CH vs DE.
WE KNOW he knew SA guns laws inside & out.
WE KNOW he knew there was a living person behind the closed, locked door.
WE KNOW he knew how small this tiny toilet area was.
WE KNOW he fired (4) shots into this tiny toilet area, through a closed, locked door.
WE KNOW he chose not to fire a warning shot into the bathroom's shower stall as he feared it might ricochet and hit him.

Therefore...
WE KNOW there was INTENT to kill the person behind this door.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Maybe I sound heartless and cold, but really, this stuff about the killer being depressed and crying makes me think.....good.

If he'd been honest from the beginning - held up his hands and admitted he'd seen red, expressed genuine and sincere remorse and demonstrated it by telling the truth regardless of the consequences for him, then I could have found some sympathy. Anyone is capable of doing a terrible thing if you get the perfect storm of events and emotions colliding....as I believe happened that night.

But to stand up and disrespect Reeva and her family by lying through his teeth and - worse, imo - taking the view that he shouldn't even have been charged is utterly abhorant and disgusting.

So you keep sobbing your feeble, cowardly guts up, Pistorius....none of the terror and fear you will ever feel comes close to how Reeva felt in that toilet that night just before you gunned her down like a trapped animal.

Oh, and I for one am not buying the pious "God is with me" nonsense. True Christians do not put their hands on Bibles, swear an oath to tell the truth and then lie. They do not.

I agree, Lemon. This may be the very first time in his life he’s actually faced REAL consequences (as insanely ridiculous as those “consequences” may be).

It’s impossible to feel any compassion for a self-entitled, drunk, horn dog who goes out partying and chases women 52 days after he blows Reeva’s brains out.

Gets a brand new girlfriend 10 months later.

Goes out partying again during his trial, gets drunk and picks fights.

Hides behind Bible-tweets and photos of himself with disabled kids from his glory days the very next day.

Equates his sorrows and tribulations with that of a persecuted, abused Nazi concentration camp survivor.

This is clearly an out-of-control man, whose hubris, hedonistic, entitled lifestyle and corrosive narcissism finally caught up with him.

What I feel is extreme revulsion that such unbridled arrogance and psychopathy destroyed not only Reeva and her family/friends but his own life and family/friends, as well as SA’s national pride in their golden hero.

That’s a helluva lot of destruction.

 

[4MrsB]

:

Hello, does anyone know if there is a transcript of what each of Oscar Pistorius' neighbours said during the trial?

It looks as if this is your first post. Welcome! :welcome6:

Re your question...I know the entire trial is available on youtube.com , but I can't answer your question re transcripts. I believe transcripts exist of most everyone's testimony (except perhaps the M.Examiner's), but I don't know where they're archived. I am sure others on this thread will be able to help you soon with that question.

Just wanted to say, "WELCOME Bergi".

 

[Interested Bystander]

Short article worth a glance.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscars-r17-5million-legal-headache/

Oscar’s R17.5 million legal headache

City Press understands there was tension between Roux and Arnold Pistorius, who tried to influence the direction of thecase but was told to butt out. A source close to the legal team said his opinion was not welcome, given his refusal to settle outstanding fees.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Hello, does anyone know if there is a transcript of what each of Oscar Pistorius' neighbours said during the trial?

Here is a link to the trial archives. They are videos not transcripts. If you have the time it is well worth listening to/watching them. The state witnesses were heard at the start of the trial, then OP, then defence witnesses. The titles should help you choose.

http://ewn.co.za/Features/oscarpistorius/live-blog-archive

:welcome4:

 

[Fuskier]

The four comments above are from only ONE recent article from ONE media website.

Multiply those same sentiments exponentially across the past 22 months, across South Africa and the world.

Apparently, Websleuthers aren’t the only ones who’ve nailed Masipa’s shell game cold. LOL

If legions of ordinary people (in SA and globally) can instantly decode such clearly biased, irrational, indefensible travesty, I’d say there’s an excellent chance that the SCA will set things right (if for no other reason than to restore the good reputation of common horse sense within the SA Judiciary. LOL). Masipa’s reputation is ruined - it’s doubtful other judges would want to follow suit, not to mention they wouldn’t want to reinforce such a murderous legal precedent.

In the unlikely event that the SCA fails, it will have to explain that dismal failure in great detail to an already highly irate SA public.

Nel and Grant, I have no doubt, would then march right into the Constitutional Court.

This is the voice of reason, and what we would hope for - BUT on the other hand, the facts are that we have seen some unreasonable judgments made in this South African case. SO while the better part of us hopes for reason, maybe we'll see more obscure reasoning. Politics is insidious. My opinion only.

 

[44ALLAN]

Why didn't he deny it then?

He wasn't arrested for it why the heck should he deny it ?
I don't understand your question !
Do you honestly believe that the prosecution 'know', as a fact, that Carl Pistorius took a phone, belonging to his brother, from the scene of a horrendous murder,committed by his brother,then proceeded to tamper with the contents of said phone and they have let him walk away scot free?
Are you really suggesting that?

 

[Interested Bystander]

He wasn't arrested for it why the heck should he deny it ?
I don't understand your question !
Do you honestly believe that the prosecution 'know', as a fact, that Carl Pistorius took a phone, belonging to his brother, from the scene of a horrendous murder,committed by his brother,then proceeded to tamper with the contents of said phone and they have let him walk away scot free?
Are you really suggesting that?

I may not believe everything I read in the press but I do think this story is true.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

 

[zwiebel]

Authorities have denied the 'specially built' bath stuff for Oscar Pistorious, but they have NOT denied, I think, that this convicted killer is being held on a wing with prisoners on remand/awaiting trial.

WTH??

Why would someone found guilty be housed alongside people who may be proved innocent? That seems really, really unusual to me.

 

[zwiebel]

He wasn't arrested for it why the heck should he deny it ?
I don't understand your question !
Do you honestly believe that the prosecution 'know', as a fact, that Carl Pistorius took a phone, belonging to his brother, from the scene of a horrendous murder,committed by his brother,then proceeded to tamper with the contents of said phone and they have let him walk away scot free?
Are you really suggesting that?

Carl Pistorius retweeted
John Piper @JohnPiper · Nov 8

Make some choices that don’t make sense unless you will be raised from the dead. 1 Corinthians 5:19

 

[44ALLAN]

I may not believe everything I read in the press but I do think this story is true.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

Sorry but that means all connected with this are corrupt and making the rules up as they go along !!
And I haven't even looked at the link you provided.

If the police/prosecution had concrete evidence he did indeed steal or take the phone from a crime scene and then tamper with it he would be in jail... full stop.
If they did have this evidence and he wasn't arrested then 'they' should be in jail....full stop.

That is my whole point...............if it's true then someone should be held accountable.

Just because it's reported in the papers...........................blah blah IMO

 

[44ALLAN]

Carl Pistorius retweeted
John Piper @JohnPiper · Nov 8

Make some choices that don’t make sense unless you will be raised from the dead. 1 Corinthians 5:19

I have no idea whatsoever what that means and why you used it in an answer to one of my posts lol ??

 

[soozieqtips]

Authorities have denied the 'specially built' bath stuff for Oscar Pistorious, but they have NOT denied, I think, that this convicted killer is being held on a wing with prisoners on remand/awaiting trial.

WTH??

Why would someone found guilty be housed alongside people who may be proved innocent? That seems really, really unusual to me.

It seems to be temporary, until the flood damage in OP's section is fixed.

Pistorius and the awaiting-trial prisoners with whom he is being kept are to be moved back to their original cells as soon as the flood damage has been repaired.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-gets-private-bath/