Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

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... the judge made it clear that she considered Pistorius’s conduct in the death of Steenkamp legally “negligent” – meaning he failed “to take the steps which he should reasonably have taken to guard against the consequence” of firing the shots that ultimately killed his girlfriend. But she also found that
“it cannot be said that he foresaw that either the deceased or anyone else for that matter might be killed when he fired the shots at the toilet door.”

http://theconversation.com/pistoriu...about-a-deeply-troubled-culture-of-fear-31396
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Ah, the carefully calculated, legal word games. Giveth with one hand - taketh away with the other. Say everything, say nothing.

Exactly what “consequence” was Masipa referring to? She dances around the truth with judicial coyness and vagueness!

If OP did not foresee certain death by intentionally shooting four bullets through that door, what does Masipa think he “foresaw” when pulling the trigger four times?

WHAT was he thinking in those crucial seconds - surely Masipa, in her wisdom, can enlighten us?!
 
Hold on .. the person driving that car was 'Anneke' Kruger .. not 'Annie' ..
 
4MrsB said:
Very interesting. OP making so many visits to the "Jewel City" during the same period he's awaiting a verdict and then sentencing....curious.

The article mentions relatives of OP's (mom's side of the family) that own a diamond mining co that is associated with Jewel City. I believe the relatives were named Kruger (although, something happened very big, several years back and their stocks/"Namakwa Diamonds" dropped approx 60% overnight. Not sure what that was all about. Anyway, the CEO at the time, a Nico Kruger stepped down.) Not sure if the other Kruger family members (Tom, Heno & Nico, all brothers) still involved with this company. However, a Dieter Kruger (and wife Annie) have been mentioned as regulars at the trial and Dieter is one of the OP "bodyguards" to/from court that helps protect OP from general public, media, protestors, etc.

The timing of these visits (by the man with no funds) to a diamond trading/purchasing "city" with tight security, pre approved appointments necessary, etc is what is so interesting. I am quite sure the OP camp (if pressed) would claim OP is merely selling diamonds to help pay for counsel. Except...likely no record of diamonds being claimed before, and would that alert his lawyers (who are owed) that he now has more liquid funds in which to pay them? So maybe that wouldn't be the best response.

As I said, curious. No idea what he's doing, but he did think it important enough in the midst of a murder trial to attend to this on numerous visits.
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Perhaps OP was finally picking up those two Valentine’s Day “bracelets” he “bought” for Reeva. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
Originally Posted by Judgejudi

Oh no, I just discovered this comment.

Judge Chris N Greenland says:
September 23, 2014 at 8:41 am

I started writing a book on this trial titled “The Oscar Pistorius Trial of the Century. Through the eyes of a Judge.”.
I intended to time its publication with the date of sentencing.
I have decided to dump the project.
This is because I cannot avoid the book now being a very bad indictment on the system and the Court.
It will serve only to bring our system, the Court and the country into further disrepute.
I just don’t have the stomach for such bad karma in my life any more.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/09/20/restitutio/

I want to stamp my feet and have a proper tantrum. I'd be down at the nearest bookstore in the blink of an eye.
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree with Judge Greenland. He needs to write this book now more than ever! The Pistorius trial is the perfect case to expose the SA justice system for what it is 20 years after apartheid - the good, bad and very ugly. Telling the truth is never bad karma.

I’m with you Judi - I’d buy the Judge’s book in two seconds flat.

"Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants."
- Louis D. Brandeis, US Supreme Court Justice
 
foxbluff said:
BBM - I've never heard of "flashing your lights" used as a message to pedestrians one way or the other.

In the States flashing your headlights is a warning to oncoming drivers that they might need to slowdown as they're approaching a concealed police car using radar to catch speeders, or police are on side of road having pulled a driver over, or that there's a wreck up ahead of them. If the oncoming drivers understand the warning, they're "flash" back to acknowledge. On the interstates, long-haul truckers always seem to understand the warning.

It would be nice if one of our prized @SA posters would step in here and confirm that Kruger was sending the correct signals to the pedestrian.
Click to expand...

I can only speak for Europe, but there is a difference between when people should flash their lights, and when they do flash their lights. Correctly used, it is a warning to let other road users know that you are there. As you say, it is also used to warn other road users of a hazard ahead.

In the UK at least, it is also sometimes incorrectly used to indicate to other road users that you are going to give way to them. This can cause problems elsewhere! Certainly in France, flashing headlights mean "Stay where you are because I'm not stopping". That is not something I care to rely on, so I would always be prepared to stop if it looked like someone (driver or pedestrian) might be about to cross my path.
 
Originally Posted by Jay-jay

I personally find it astonishing that the PT cut a deal re. Carl/Botha .. I simply cannot see that anything Botha had done could match what Carl had done. Carl should've been prosecuted for taking that phone and wiping it, and that whole thing should've contributed towards a 'guilty of murdering Reeva' verdict for OP .. it's just ridiculous that each of these things kept on being dismissed as not being proof enough, like I've said before, you could take any murder case and argue every single thing away but fortunately in this country we have juries who take a case as a whole and come to decision based on that, and that would include someone wiping a phone because the only reason why someone takes a phone from a crime scene and wipes it is because it contained incriminating evidence, it's just basic common sense.
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I agree 100%, JJ.

Roux & Oz were gonna scream “police contamination and tampering” no matter if Botha was in or out - and they did indeed give it their best shot.

Knowing what we know now, OP’s phone was KEY to this case - and his guilt, IMHO. If it wasn’t, it would never have disappeared and we’d have never heard of a computer named “Titanium Hulk”.

I feel comfortable saying that if his phone had not been stolen, had it been properly and immediately accessed and all data downloaded, OP would be staring at 25 years minimum in his VIP Cell instead of 10 months.

Of course, playing armchair quarterback is easy LOL, but had I been Nel, I think I would have taken my chances with Botha just to NAIL hacker Carl six ways to Sunday, making him sweat and spill his guts (and his computer) on the stand. Nel - along with computer forensics - would have eviscerated him.

Like you, I’m still not entirely clear why Botha was considered some death knell to the case? While his bail testimony may have been something less than stellar, if somewhat confusing (with some incorrect initial info and incorrect inferences presented), it was also extremely early in the investigation. It’s not at all uncommon for initial case facts to change (sometimes dramatically), as new details, witnesses and evidence comes forth. From what I’ve read, Botha’s testimony was neither pro-PT nor pro-DT - nothing I’d consider fatal to the case.

Asked if the police found anything inconsistent with the version of events presented by Pistorius, Botha responded that they had not. He later said nothing contradicted the police's version either.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/detective-gives-confused-testimony-in-pistorius-case-1.1318772

The charges were originally dropped but Mr Malila says they have now been reinstated and Mr Botha is due to appear in court in May. "We were only informed YESTERDAY that attempted murders charges against Hilton Botha have been reinstated," he said. It was unclear why the charges were reinstated against Botha, or how the latest twist in Pistorius's sensational bail hearing will affect the athlete's chances of securing release from custody pending his main trial.

South African media said that since the charges were not hanging over Botha when he was in the witness stand, the revelations about attempted murder charges were unlikely to mean his testimony would have to be withdrawn.

During the Pistorius bail hearing yesterday, Botha was accused of giving contradictory evidence in court and admitted to making procedural mistakes at the scene of Ms Steenkamp's shooting.

He said the evidence at the scene was "consistent" with Pistorius's claim that he mistook Steenkamp for an intruder, and conceded that detectives had uncovered no evidence to directly challenge the Olympian's story.

And he said investigators had walked over the crime scene without protective boots and had overlooked a bullet that hit the toilet bowl - later discovered by the defence's forensic team.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-...cop-on-seven-attempted-murder-charges/4532724
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Originally Posted by Vansleuths

I don't think we as a group give uncle Arnold enough credit. When OP's mother passed away and his dad abandoned them, it was uncle Arnold who took the three Pistorius kids and specifically said these three kids were equal to his own biological kids. That's something very special and worth remembering, not all people would do something like this. In that same regard, I'm sure uncle Arnold will give OP a well paying job so he will never be destitute. Plus, I believe that OP has money, it's just we're looking at a shell game that wealthy people are good at, we just don't know where the money is.
Click to expand...

While it’s great that OP, Carl and Aimee found a home with Uncle Arnold, it’s hardly noteworthy as exceptional (especially for a rich man). Ordinary people around the world do it every day; family tends to take care of family without fanfare. Had the three been adoptees or foster kids, that might have been a different story.

What is noteworthy in my book is any family who takes in not only their blood relatives, but friends, even strangers, when they themselves have precious few resources - they always make room for one more at the dinner table, welcome one more into the family fold.

Like the Steenkamps, whose compassion and generosity have been highlighted by Kim Martin’s testimony and noted in the media.

Like the Myers family, who opened up their home to Reeva Steenkamp.

Uncle Arnold and the entire Pistorius clan also greatly benefited by association with OP’s fame and fortune (starting at age 17) - if only for the global prestige his name brought. While the family’s immense wealth opens many doors, his iconic name opened even more doors.
 
foxbluff said:
BBM - I've never heard of "flashing your lights" used as a message to pedestrians one way or the other.

In the States flashing your headlights is a warning to oncoming drivers that they might need to slowdown as they're approaching a concealed police car using radar to catch speeders, or police are on side of road having pulled a driver over, or that there's a wreck up ahead of them. If the oncoming drivers understand the warning, they're "flash" back to acknowledge. On the interstates, long-haul truckers always seem to understand the warning.

It would be nice if one of our prized @SA posters would step in here and confirm that Kruger was sending the correct signals to the pedestrian.
Click to expand...

In Spain it can mean all of those that you say, speed camera, accident ahead, etc. etc. an to pedestrians and cars coming in from a side road it can also mean you can cross I'm stopping/slowing or whatever to let you go. Unsafe habit since drivers and pedestrians should always check for themselves as it may be you go on what one driver is indicating by flashing their headlights but another driver that can't see that signal doesn't realise and... crash!
 
Cherwell said:
I can only speak for Europe, but there is a difference between when people should flash their lights, and when they do flash their lights. Correctly used, it is a warning to let other road users know that you are there. As you say, it is also used to warn other road users of a hazard ahead.

In the UK at least, it is also sometimes incorrectly used to indicate to other road users that you are going to give way to them. This can cause problems elsewhere! Certainly in France, flashing headlights mean "Stay where you are because I'm not stopping". That is not something I care to rely on, so I would always be prepared to stop if it looked like someone (driver or pedestrian) might be about to cross my path.
Click to expand...

I'd forgotten your explanation in my answer for Spain. Yes it is so vague as it can also mean just as you say, i.e., "stay where you are" as well as for, "you can go, I will wait". I would never make any manoeuvre whether driving or as a pedestrian except on what I see and judge on my ownsome! It's like when years ago in Spain lorries would kindly wave you on to pass them on a two lane road. Most times fine, but if the lorry driver didn't calculate correctly you were up s**t creek if you went to pass them reliant on their judgement and kind gesture. And it has happened where one car is stopped at a crossing waving kiddies on to cross and another car comes up in the second lane and just goes on and kids have to run. Nope, my advice, whether as a driver or pedestrian never rely on anything but on what you can see and your own judgement.
 
Oh shoot !! I was getting ready to "type fast" because I just noticed that @ApplesInMyBra was onboard (she grew up in SA) and I wanted to hear what she would say about the "flashing headlights," but her name disappeared the moment I opened this "quick reply" box. Grrrh...

However, I had wanted to comment on all the responses here anyway. Fascinating to hear from so many different countries... it really points out just how international this board is... which I have always thought was nifty. (:

All seem in agreement that nobody anywhere should ever make the assumption that they know what "flashing headlights" are trying to tell them. My guess now would be that a SA poster is most likely going to say the same thing.
 
(Per WhatsApp messages Roux had OP read in Court)

February 11, 2013 - RS didn't spend the night w/OP... don't believe they saw each other that day as they texted each other during the day and that evening they texted back and forth about how much they missed each other.

February 12, 2013 - RS spent the night with OP at his home.
They had been texting each other that day and in the afternoon RS sent OP message saying "Will you be around if I come this afternoon? I will go do my errands in Pretoria." She texts him again saying "I know Warren wanted to have coffee today so we could catch up and I could get my post, etc from him. But I can see him another day." OP replies "Yea, I will babba. Have a dental appointment at 12:30. Maybe go and see him and come through when you are done. Kiss, kiss."

The next morning (February 13th) she tweeted that she had started off her day with a tasty, healthy smoothie from her boo. At 10:08 AM she texted OP "Good luck today, baba. Kiss, kiss, kiss. Let me know how things go." She then left the estate and when she returned, per the guard at the gate, they let her in without contacting OP to get an "ok" since she had spent the last couple of nights with OP.

That afternoon per a reporter (per Mr.Fos it was 20:42) RS sent a WhatsApp to Mrs. Myers "My Des!!!! I'm staying in PTA again it's sooooooo far to drive I just decided to stay here today and work! See u for valentines day xxxx."
 
This article takes a big swipe at the Pistorians and “the God squad”.

“But the intention of this article is also to point a finger squarely in the faces of the hypocrites – the sycophantic Christians who insist on a black and white judgement on the one side, and refuse – in typical form – to countenance any idea that don’t sit well with them.

On his twitter profile he (Carl) has a profile picture with the words: ‘Fear is a lie’. Ironic, since his brother’s affidavit relies heavily on the ruse that he felt fearful and vulnerable, too afraid to turn on the lights ...

Thus, if we are speaking in God’s name and 100% certain of God’s position, we should also be reminded that the 6th of the 10 commandments is ‘Thou shalt not kill.’ Not necessarily, let us be clear, “Thou shalt not commit murder.’ But simply, ‘Don’t kill.’

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Pistorius-supported-by-God-Squad-but-will-he-run-20130222
 
http://www.itac.org.za/import_guidelines_page.asp

To physically disabled. South African citizens/nationals to import a specially designed motor vehicle which will suit the disabled person’s personal requirements. Application form IE463 must be completed and proof in the form of a certificate, issued by a medical practitioner that the applicant is in fact disabled is required. A copy of the applicant’s South African passport or ID (page with barcode and details) and a copy of the relevant rebate permit must also be attached. Full details of the vehicle must be submitted and the imported vehicle may not be disposed of within a period of two years from the date of importation.

I have been searching sources of my vague remembrance of OP+buying car+McLaren+import+disabled+discount+vat+tax.
Though I have not found the special source (maybe twitter Daytona/Divaris), I want to post the text above and now again to begin a further search. Patience please ...
 
This is the third and final extract from June's book.

http://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/sunday-times/textview

After reading the small para on p.1, click anywhere on the photo or article to take you to the next page.
After reading the second page, move your mouse halfway down the page and on the right-hand side you'll see an arrow to click on for the next page etc.

If you need to exit before completing reading all of it, you'll need to copy and paste the url into the address bar or you won't be able to access it again the same way.
 
FromGermany said:
http://www.itac.org.za/import_guidelines_page.asp

To physically disabled. South African citizens/nationals to import a specially designed motor vehicle which will suit the disabled person’s personal requirements. Application form IE463 must be completed and proof in the form of a certificate, issued by a medical practitioner that the applicant is in fact disabled is required. A copy of the applicant’s South African passport or ID (page with barcode and details) and a copy of the relevant rebate permit must also be attached. Full details of the vehicle must be submitted and the imported vehicle may not be disposed of within a period of two years from the date of importation.

I have been searching sources of my vague remembrance of OP+buying car+McLaren+import+disabled+discount+vat+tax.
Though I have not found the special source (maybe twitter Daytona/Divaris), I want to post the text above and now again to begin a further search. Patience please ...
Click to expand...

Your link is for used/second-hand cars. This one is for new cars and has a bit more info.

http://www.rollingrehab.wozaonline.co.za/Rebate+Info
 
http://mg.co.za/article/2014-04-10-oscar-pistorius-tests-new-limits-of-disability

Oscar Pistorius tests new limits of disability

Seirlis's organisation was among those that made a poster child out of Pistorius and featured him on the front page of its magazine.

Tax exemptions
The day before he shot Reeva Steen*kamp, Seirlis said, Pistorius phoned him for help with the paperwork that would allow him to import a Maclaren sports car without paying the usual duty (which is waived for vehicles modified for use by disabled people). But now Seirlis uses phrases such as "scraping the bottom of the barrel" about Pistorius.

"The fact is that Oscar became famous because he is well built, because he is strong, for no other reason," Seirlis said. "When you become famous for that, you can't revert to vulnerability again when it suits you."
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

I searched for a text like this above (not my original).

When OP buys a car or when he shoots a girlfriend to death, then he is obviously very much disabled. At other times he is the world's fastest men with no legs.
 
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