Post sentencing discussion

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...scar-Pistoriuss-rapid-recovery-a-miracle.html

Oscar Pistorius's rapid recovery "a miracle"

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/carl-pistorius-makes-miraculous-recovery-after-near-fatal-car-crash-1461924

Carl Pistorius Makes 'Miraculous Recovery' After Near Fatal Car Crash

Miracle over miracle around the Pistoriusses - sometimes this will end and there will not longer be a miracle but a fatal crash/accident. Who will be the first: Oscar or his brother Carl??

 

[Cherwell]

I'm not convinced he still has the "new girlfriend". I've seen no mentions of her anywhere since those early reports back in February.

 

[foxbluff]

BIB - The boating accident was mentioned in court, but not in relation to any brain injury, as far as I can remember. I'm sure if Roux could have linked any possible brain damage to OP's actions on that fateful night, he would have done.[/

ooops... changed my mind... deleted reply

 

[vansleuths]

I've added a second tab to my new interpretation of the witness testimony to test the time events take, their logical dependencies and constraints, and to confirm whether the suggested sequence is plausible. So far, so good, but it's still a work in progress. Views on event times or concerns are welcome.

Mr. Fossil, Thank you for all of your hard work and for laying out the witness testimony 2 like this. This is the most clear that I've seen it. It's a shame that the PT didn't do something like this at closing, you have to wonder if this would have swayed Masipa's ruling.

Can I ask, have you created a template like this using Roux's Heads of Arguments that he brought up at the end of the case?

It would be really informative to see a visual of just how he managed to sway Masipa with his timeline.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Mr. Fossil, Thank you for all of your hard work and for laying out the witness testimony 2 like this. This is the most clear that I've seen it. It's a shame that the PT didn't do something like this at closing, you have to wonder if this would have swayed Masipa's ruling.

Can I ask, have you created a template like this using Roux's Heads of Arguments that he brought up at the end of the case?

It would be really informative to see a visual of just how he managed to sway Masipa with his timeline.

Thank you. No, I haven't done this for the Defence HoA but I can see that it would be useful for showing the issues that arise. I'll give it some thought but not sure if I have the time.

 

[foxbluff]

BIB - The boating accident was mentioned in court, but not in relation to any brain injury, as far as I can remember. I'm sure if Roux could have linked any possible brain damage to OP's actions on that fateful night, he would have done.

Let me try this again... if I keep it short this time maybe I won't need to delete.

Ty. I did remember that the boating accident itself was discussed in Court.

BBM - I would certainly have thought so, but I'm not sure of anything in this case! I was amazed back when DT/OP were so opposed to a mental evaluation being done. I thought they should have jumped at the chance OP might get diagnosed with a type of mental deflect that would keep him out of jail. I was left with the feeling that OP was more worried about what effect such a diagnosis might have on his sports career than he was of going to jail. moo

 

[soozieqtips]

Let me try this again... if I keep it short this time maybe I won't need to delete.

Ty. I did remember that the boating accident itself was discussed in Court.

BBM - I would certainly have thought so, but I'm not sure of anything in this case! I was amazed back when DT/OP were so opposed to a mental evaluation being done. I thought they should have jumped at the chance OP might get diagnosed with a type of mental deflect that would keep him out of jail. I was left with the feeling that OP was more worried about what effect such a diagnosis might have on his sports career than he was of going to jail. moo

BIB - he certainly felt the need to protect his image, but it was kind of too late once he was on trial for murder. Mind you, right at the beginning, he did say he 'failed' to see how he could be charged with murder, so maybe he thought he was going to get off totally free (with everyone believing his intruder story). I don't think he ever entertained the idea he might go to jail, so I could see why he wouldn't want anything untoward coming out of his psyche evaluation, as he was probably planning to go straight back into training after.

By the way, if you want to actually delete your semi-deleted post, there's a delete option when you 'edit'.

 

[Ncl1968]

View attachment 62223

http://citizen.co.za/263290/cell-door-slams-shut-on-oscar-info/


Looks like ***** did kill his vibe after all.

Ikea just released their new oscar toilet door.....

 

[44ALLAN]

Snipped

Burger's bang....bang bang bang is one of the best bits of prosecution evidence IMO.

Even if you're sceptical about her ability to hear screams that far from OP's house, or her ability to distinguish male and female screams, the fact that her description of the pattern of the sounds matches exactly with Mangena's forensic evidence of the gunshots is compelling.

I'm working on the basis that, at the point at which she gave evidence, no one other than the NPA, PT and DT knew that level of detail, so there's no way she could have known, short of having been told as much by one of the above. As Nel would say, "Am I right?"

And couple that thought with photo 55......................this verdict stinks to high heaven it really does.

Masipa and her assessors have effectively said all the states witnesses were lying/mistaken and all the police photographers were frauds.
Beggars belief it really does.

 

[G.bng]

I got the impression that Christo was referring to a light in the house..because he said that it was all dark EXCEPT for one light. Normally an "outside light" is a given to be always on..
I don't recall Pistorius talking about a light that was always on..do you have that info? Thanks..
Do you know what part of Pistorius's house Christo would see from his window?

Not sure I see what Christo said in the interview that could give the impression he was referring to a "light IN the house"?

The following quotes might give an idea about the light always on at OP's house as well as where CM's house was in respect of OP's since CM could see OP's house, very possibly the front since he describes all lights on and flashing lights outside, from his bathroom window across what at that time was an empty plot, but then since he drove over there it could be it was not THAT close.

EXCERPT FROM CROSS PIETER BABA

Roux: At 2:20 that morning the guard track in the immediate vecinity of Mr Pistorius' house was activated?
PBW: Yah, my lady.
Roux: And at that this is the time, if I look at his statements, that you were with Mr Maluleka?
PBW: Yah, my lady.
Roux: And if I look at the statements, well I have to look at Mr Maluleka's statement, that there was no noise or no disturbance at that time?
PBI: It was **inaudible 1/2 words [00:40:00.00]** when we went past the place everything was normal.
Roux: As I understand Mr Maluleka's statement, and maybe you can tell me if it's true or not, is that the garage the outside light was on but not the inside lights?
PBI: Everything was normal as is always the situation at Mr Pistorius' house every night.

QUOTES FROM INTERVIEW CHRISTO MENELAU IN YOU

... ✄... About an hour later he went to the bathroom of his home in the Silver Woods estate, east of Pretoria. When he opened the window and looked outside he couldn’t believe his eyes. The window looks out on an empty plot and the house of Olympic and Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius. The two men are close friends. “His house used to be in pitch darkness at night, except for one light that was always on,” Christo (34) says. But that night all the lights were on and there were blue and red lights flashing outside. “I knew there was big trouble,” he recalls... ✄...

... ✄...That morning Christo had a quick shower and drove over to Oscar’s house. He asked the first security guard he saw what had happened. “He told me Oscar had shot his girlfriend,” Christo says. “I asked if she was okay. ‘No, she’s dead’,” he said. “I couldn’t believe it. ‘It can’t be,’ I said over and over. The guard told me Oscar had thought there were intruders.”... ✄...

 

[Ncl1968]

I dont use twitter but i wonder if anyone has asked carl what he did with his brothers phone ? Can you ask direct questions on twitter in between his god loves me tweets
Might be worth joining twitter just to do so

 

[G.bng]

View attachment 62189

Where is the above the waist blood ...was always my question???

Note his hands are also blood free but if you recall one of the top police investigators there who gave witness, can't recall his name, allowed him to remove his T-shirt and wash his hands and chest, so this pic would be after that.

 

[Ncl1968]

Note his hands are also blood free but if you recall one of the top police investigators there who gave witness, can't recall his name, allowed him to remove his T-shirt and wash his hands and chest, so this pic would be after that.

Also he had damage to his false legs that looked to me he was hit with a cricket bat?

 

[G.bng]

I believe Christo lives at 284 Bush Willow*, which does look directly across an empty lot onto OP's house.

As I remember, it was OP's bedroom balcony light that was on.

Which explains perfectly why OP allegedly had to CLOSE the drapes to make it "pitch black" (although even then I'm not sure it would have been totally pitch black).


* Christo's house (?) blue roof - around the corner from OP

View attachment 62193

For CM to be able to at the same time see the all the lights a flashing "outside" of OP's house as well as be looking out across an empty plot from his bathroom (bathrooms are generally at the back or side) and have to drive there my best bet would be that CM's was one of the three houses making an "L" shape in the foreground directly in front of OP's. A second bet would be either the one to the far left or the one to the right also in the foreground of the pic.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I think Brian Webber would be the one to visit him plus Roux maybe. Do lawyers have access any time they want or do they also have to only visit on weekends and they are not counted as "visitors"?

I don't think lawyers count as visitors, but what I'd like to know is whether 2 visitors means 2 per visit or 1 + 1. Probably the former but I'd still like to know.

 

[Ncl1968]

It will be interesting to know the pistorius pecking order regarding visits i have a feeling his sister is lower than the rest and i consider her to be a weak link,she will break first the guilt will destroy her

 

[JudgeJudi]

Maybe Oscar thinks he can represent himself then as he always wins????? Oscar's father should be the one who pays or maybe his grandfather against any inheritance he might get one day. I am not sure Uncle Arnold would be so generous except to clear the family name. However, if the NPA go ahead, it appears that it is very likely that they would win so paying for Oscar's legal fees would not be a good investment especially if there is a retrial.

PS: I have just looked it up and anyone who lives in South Africa is entitled to legal aid if the case is criminal.

http://www.legal-aid.co.za/?p=956

I'd seen that link too but perhaps you didn’t read it all.

• It’s means tested just like in Australia. He may well have no assets but other factors come into play.
• Under the heading “Some people automatically qualify” you’ll see that he doesn’t meet this criteria - “If you receive any state grant or old age pension, you automatically qualify for legal aid”.
• It’s under the heading “Aid for non-citizens” which clearly doesn’t apply to him,”It’s available to anyone ... if the case is criminal”.
• And finally there’s “We also consider special legal cases” it says “Legal Aid South Africa tries to help as many people who can’t afford help as possible. From time to time, opportunities arise for us to take on legal work that has the potential to positively change the lives of a far larger number of people than just the person that we provide legal assistance to”. A no go here too.

What legal aid say, either here in Australia or SA, and the reality of it are two entirely different things. For a start, they don’t like to take on cases unless they believe there’s a fair chance they’ll win. That’s never stated anywhere but I can assure you it happens in the real world.

Secondly, look at SA’s Constitution about people’s rights and reconcile that with – and here’s a very good example – the man who couldn’t walk, was confined to a wheelchair, had to wear a nappy and had to literally drag himself along the floor to get to the showers, wasn’t immediately placed in the hospital section of the prison. He was in the general part with 60 or 70 others IIRC and said that the only concession he had was that his food was brought to him. He’s now been released with an ankle monitor pending trial.

It's not a case of WYSIWYG.

 

[JudgeJudi]

It would be a big help to many of us here if you would do your "bed check" thingy. hint... hint

Okay, will do.

 

[Fuskier]

Let me try this again... if I keep it short this time maybe I won't need to delete.

Ty. I did remember that the boating accident itself was discussed in Court.

BBM - I would certainly have thought so, but I'm not sure of anything in this case! I was amazed back when DT/OP were so opposed to a mental evaluation being done. I thought they should have jumped at the chance OP might get diagnosed with a type of mental deflect that would keep him out of jail. I was left with the feeling that OP was more worried about what effect such a diagnosis might have on his sports career than he was of going to jail. moo

BIB IMO could be reasonably possibly true. Hypothetically, has Team OP hidden this fact to ensure his sporting career and their money making potential remain intact? Could Team OP be negligent for not having OP medically examined for anger/impulse changes post head injury?

It was clear to those around him that, in his daily life, he was getting more out of control with anger and his use a gun before he shot RS to death and 'blew her brains out' that night.

In OP's recovery from the boating accident, did Team OP influence and gain medical cooperation, to ensure that a diagnosis of brain injury remain hidden from the public so as not to impact OP's sporting career? Team OP PR machine ensured that OP was seen publicly as having made a 'miracle' recovery, again an 'outstanding' achiever, etc, to positively influence his public profile and ensure their income earning capacity.

However, it is well known in medical circles that brain injury can leave humans prone to anger/impulse problems and sleep difficulties. [Michael Hutchence, high public profile as Inxs front singer, is one example: his colleagues noticed he had problems with anger and impulse control after sustaining a head injury, but the public was not aware of this until after his death].

Has the politically influential SA Team OP PR machine overlooked in its quest to maintain OP's Olympic glory/fame/money for South Africa, the fact that the man, OP, was struggling with anger/impulse issues which threatened the the safety and well-being of other people?

The information about OP's anger/impulse issues has come into the public domain despite the substantial effort of Team OP PR machine to squash this information, maintain damage control, influence charges to be dropped, cases dismissed, etc. Has Team OP been negligent?

Do we hold the people around celebrities/sports stars, etc accountable?

All in my opinion only.

 

[Ncl1968]

Possession etc of articles for use in frauds Fraud Act 2006 s.6 5 years
The uk law on fraud gets you 5 years....what did oscar do ??? Oh yea got away with murder