Post sentencing discussion

mrjitty · Oct 24, 2014

Mr Fossil said:
@Interested Bystander & Errrr

The three 'shots' that the Stipps hear first must be reasonably close together. One air rifle pellet through the bedroom door, followed by some unidentified object hitting the bath and then maybe the tiles or door getting hit would be spaced apart and sound very different to each other IMO. I still favour three of the same thing (warning shots out the window, door slams in a struggle, etc.)

How many rounds were left in the magazine?

i think it doesn't matter what the 3 bangs were - the key point is there were 3

Paul_1900 · Oct 24, 2014

Hi, back with a lengthy post

APOLOGIZE

I enjoyed myself trying to unravel the chords between the “ bad boys” circling this trial . . I think there is a lot more and I will continue the next days - if anybody interested. No relevance to the trial or appeal, just curious

Ok, I‘ll start from the Brett Kebble murder case as it seems there can be found some connections, though it may just be one of many strands.

Brett Kebble was a mining magnate shot and killed Sept. 2005. Mikey Schultz*, Nigel Mc Gurk and Fiazel Smith were accused of murder. Same as Glenn Agliotti, a convicted drug trafficker, who was supposed to be the master mind. Later in 2008 it was officially found by the NPA that Kebble had actually “orchestrated his own murder” as some kind of “ fake assassination”, and appointed the trio as hitmen. Apparently for his wife to benefit from his life insurance. He had been sacked from his companies due to an issue with some missing shares worth about 2 million Rand. Kebble was also said to have some very close links with ANC officials.

*Schultz in the past supposedly was also member of Hells Angels and a notorious “ Elite Security company”. And he is friend with Mark Batchelor.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/brett-kebble-planned-his-own-death-1.421952#.VEp5FyKsWSp
http://mg.co.za/article/2011-04-15-brett-kebble-resurrected

Glenn Agliotti, a close friend to Jackie Selebi, made a plea bargain with the Scorpions on charges of drug trafficking in exchange for testifying against Selebi, the former Interpol head accused of corruption and bribery.
So here our dear friend Gerrie Nel !!! comes into play – as he was the one prosecuting both Agliotti and Selebi. In his team at that time were Andrea Johnson and Andrew Leask. All 3 together were heading a Scorpions operation called “ Bad guys” since 2006. Before Agliottis trial came to an end they were removed from the case due to ‘conflict of interest’, after intervention of the Kebble family lawyers. The prosecutors taking over obviously then screw up, so finally Agliotti and his co-accused Clinton Nassif (security head for Kebble) could both walk free.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/how-glenn-agliotti-won-onjudgment-day-20101128/

Mark Strydom, ex boxer, whom Aimee accused of bad mouthing her in court is a friend of Batchelor. Strydom together with Schultz apparently were facing a lot of investigations (fraud, intimidation, assalt, pointing firearms) since before 2000.

On a very funny sidenote . . . Strydom said in 2000 “ he found the lord” . . .:floorlaugh:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-afr...rd-1.46084?ot=inmsa.ArticlePrintPageLayout.ot

Guil Yahav also seems to be a real ‘nice” guy . . . ex bouncer now poker player, in 2002 escaped a murder conviction for the stabbing of Patrick Caetano, another bouncer, together with ab Jonathan Street. Seemingly he was slashing Caetano with a knife in his face, but it was found Caetano was killed by other men thereafter. He further had a brawl with tow-truck "king" Craig Lipschitz and allegedly “bite a chunk of his chin” when attacking Nelson da Silva, a friend of Lipschitz.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/ex-bouncer-on-new-violence-charge-1.435511#.VEp0yiKsWSp

Jared Mortimer who got into the altercation with OP and Guil are mutual friends.

http://thejuice.co.za/top-stories/e...team-and-the-person-involved-in-the-argument/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...before-nightclub-fight-partygoers-allege.html

I stop here for the moment . . there is a lot more names popping up – Radovan Krejcir, Justin Divaris . . . I will need some time to find out how they
all might be connected to OP.

See also which journos have written these articles, familiar names. I really wonder why there was so little about it published during OP trial.

Errrr · Oct 24, 2014

Re post 535 Mr Fossil
Yes, it would be interesting to see what a metal detector might turn up for anyone buying this property.

Interested Bystander · Oct 24, 2014

mrjitty said:
How many rounds were left in the magazine?

i think it doesn't matter what the 3 bangs were - the key point is there were 3

I don't recall ever seeing that information. I certainly don't remember it coming up in the trial though that does now surprise me. Perhaps I missed it. I am sure someone will pop up and tell us. I did read that there were various clips for his gun that could hold from 9 to I think 17 but there is a no. 10 on the clip shown in the forensic photos. I have always assumed that identified the number of bullets in the clip but I have never held a gun in my life so pure speculation on my part.

foxbluff · Oct 24, 2014

O/T and sad. Apologies if already posted. I haven't yet read any of the 100+ comments, but my guess would be that OP's name comes up.

SA Olympian killed in car crash
2014-10-24 19:24
Johannesburg South African middle distance runner Mbulaeni Mulaudzi was killed in a car accident on Friday, according to reports.
eNCA reported that the 2009 world champion was killed in a fatal car crash. <snipped>

http://m.news24.com/news24/SouthAfrica/News/SA-Olympian-killed-in-car-crash-20141024

cottonweaver · Oct 24, 2014

WilliamMunter said:
I'm not sure what to think about the damage to the bedroom door. However regarding the "airgun pellet hole" in it, was it ever confirmed it was a pellet hole? If it was made that night, where is the pellet?

Also I've revisited some of the evidence photos and one of the bat photographs shows similar holes. I suspect Pistorius used the bat as target practice +/- the door at some time in the past.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/pmb-portals/behind-the-door/img/pics/SAPS_Investigate/work_4.jpg

BIB Maybe. This is the man after all , who, when p***%d and showing another blonde a good time (? eek) , set a fire on his marble, living room floor and danced around it.

And, as you so funnily suggest, this could in fact be the centrepiece of his fondue nights. Raclette and schnapps mein host? :scared:

MURDERER_SERVANT · Oct 24, 2014

Errrr said:
Re post 535 Mr Fossil
Yes, it would be interesting to see what a metal detector might turn up for anyone buying this property.

Namely Christo Menalau was the one doing the recontruction and was he the one who rented the house during his work there ? Probably his house was a few blocks away at the time .. then why on earth did he rent OP's house? Could it be to clean up the garden out of the bathroom window ? Am I reading too much into this? but this was really weird to me..

jilly · Oct 24, 2014

vansleuths said:
From early reports, analysts have always said that Nel overcharges with the hope of getting a lesser sentence. Yes, premeditated murder was an aggravating circumstance that Nel tried to fight for, but it did put him in a box. He fought hard to show that it was Reeva who was arguing with OP through the toilet door after which he shot.

If Nel had ignored who was behind the door (Reeva or intruder), he might have had an easier time getting a murder conviction...at least that's what Judge Greenland said.

I know it's always easier to criticize after the fact, but I sincerely believed that Nel fought for justice in this case and that he truly put his heart into it.

But didn't Masipa say in her Judgment that Nel had failed to prove it was Reeva behind the door? I took that as she was expecting him to do so. That being the case, if he had ignored it as Judge Greenland suggests, I'm thinking Masipa would have faulted him for that too imo. What am I missing here?

Mr Fossil · Oct 24, 2014

akp said:
One reason I would doubt the first three bangs that the Stipps heard were gunshots is that Reeva was standing upright behind the door when she was shot a little later. If OP had already started using his gun, it would be more natural for her to crouch and be in some corner to avoid possible gunshots. Judging by her position, she didn't expect OP to shoot her.

That's a good point and of course the police could put us right if there were more than 10 bullets left in the magazine.

There are many permutations that are possible and one of them will be correct.

If we start with the premise that the bat was used on the door after the gunshots then IMO the sound(s) everyone heard must be the gunshots, it clearly being the loudest, most penetrating sound. That means no one heard the bat. Therefore there must be an explanation for what the Stipps heard earlier that makes sense, perhaps allowing Reeva to be moving into the bathroom (getting closer = louder, although which way you're facing would also achieve this if she backed from the window to the basins/shower) and outside the toilet until just before he kills her. She is either standing, reasoning with OP or listening. Did she really believe that he was going to shoot at her? But she was terrified ("I'm scared of you sometimes ...") and was about the phone someone. Click and he fires.

I can see how "get the **** out of my house" fits, as it could apply directly to Reeva.

I can see how "phone the police" could also fit, as he mocks her threat to do so.

Any ideas how "get down on the floor" could fit and does this give us any help?

Mr Fossil · Oct 24, 2014

mrjitty said:
How many rounds were left in the magazine?

i think it doesn't matter what the 3 bangs were - the key point is there were 3

We don't know. From the photo we can see 10 (of 17) in the magazine plus the 'one (that was) up' but there could be more. Anyone know how to measure the spring coil separation to work it out?!

True, 3 is the key number. I guess I enjoy trying to figure these things.

MURDERER_SERVANT · Oct 24, 2014

Mr Fossil said:
That's a good point and of course the police could put us right if there were more than 10 bullets left in the magazine.

There are many permutations that are possible and one of them will be correct.

If we start with the premise that the bat was used on the door after the gunshots then IMO the sound(s) everyone heard must be the gunshots, it clearly being the loudest, most penetrating sound. That means no one heard the bat. Therefore there must be an explanation for what the Stipps heard earlier that makes sense, perhaps allowing Reeva to be moving into the bathroom (getting closer = louder, although which way you're facing would also achieve this if she backed from the window to the basins/shower) and outside the toilet until just before he kills her. She is either standing, reasoning with OP or listening. Did she really believe that he was going to shoot at her? But she was terrified ("I'm scared of you sometimes ...") and was about the phone someone. Click and he fires.

I can see how "get the **** out of my house" fits, as it could apply directly to Reeva.

I can see how "phone the police" could also fit, as he mocks her threat to do so.

Any ideas how "get down on the floor" could fit and does this give us any help?

My guess is Reeva was on top of the toilet trying to scream out of the window and he saw her thru the crack and shouted her to get down on the floor ..

Mr Fossil · Oct 24, 2014

Interested Bystander said:
I don't recall ever seeing that information. I certainly don't remember it coming up in the trial though that does now surprise me. Perhaps I missed it. I am sure someone will pop up and tell us. I did read that there were various clips for his gun that could hold from 9 to I think 17 but there is a no. 10 on the clip shown in the forensic photos. I have always assumed that identified the number of bullets in the clip but I have never held a gun in my life so pure speculation on my part.

It holds 17 as can be seen from the photo I posted earlier (there are markers at 5, 10, and 17, where there are holes to show if there is a bullet at this point). And we can see 10 rounds in it but can't tell if there are more.

ApplesInMyBra · Oct 24, 2014

jay-jay said:
Hi Apples .. I'm just in the process of doing it, nearly finished now, thought I should better say so quickly just to save you from going to all the trouble/duplicating .. there a few places where I've listened to it over and over though and still can't recognise the words, so would be grateful for some help on that! It's an interesting interview though, in that he gives a better insight into what all that thing in the VIP Room was all about (and that he/his PR person wasn't very honest about it being his cousin he was with, it was someone else who I couldn't quite work the name out .. when Batch kept saying it, it sounded like 'Gil') plus also it really shows how those close to Reeva know that something was up between her and Oscar and they are absolutely convinced that he is lying with his version of events that night.

Thanks for letting me know, Jay Jay! I would be happy to fill in any blanks for you - just send me the times in die video where you cannot recognise the words - it is possible that he uses Afrikaans words in there...

Paul_1900 · Oct 24, 2014

ColonelMustard said:
I'm just guessing but how about the fact that Uncle Arnold hasn't been banned from having/owning guns. Can OP stay in a house that's full of firearms.

Good point.
As per the judgement most probably no restriction for him to stay in a house with guns. It just said he is not fit to OWN a firearm again* . . . thinking about guns being around him . . . I wouldn't want to set a foot in that house, no.

*It was shocked again about Masipa when exchanging words with Nel on that topic. How can a judge NOT KNOW about these things ?? One would expect it's her daily business, no ?

Mr Fossil · Oct 24, 2014

MURDERER_SERVANT said:
[/B]

My guess is Reeva was on top of the toilet trying to scream out of the window and he saw her thru the crack and shouted her to get down on the floor ..

The crack? That implies the bat struck the door before the bullets, doesn't it?

luvmygarden · Oct 24, 2014

Paul_1900 said:
Hi, back with a lengthy post

APOLOGIZE

I enjoyed myself trying to unravel the chords between the “ bad boys” circling this trial . . I think there is a lot more and I will continue the next days - if anybody interested. No relevance to the trial or appeal, just curious

Ok, I‘ll start from the Brett Kebble murder case as it seems there can be found some connections, though it may just be one of many strands.

Brett Kebble was a mining magnate shot and killed Sept. 2005. Mikey Schultz*, Nigel Mc Gurk and Fiazel Smith were accused of murder. Same as Glenn Agliotti, a convicted drug trafficker, who was supposed to be the master mind. Later in 2008 it was officially found by the NPA that Kebble had actually “orchestrated his own murder” as some kind of “ fake assassination”, and appointed the trio as hitmen. Apparently for his wife to benefit from his life insurance. He had been sacked from his companies due to an issue with some missing shares worth about 2 million Rand. Kebble was also said to have some very close links with ANC officials.

*Schultz in the past supposedly was also member of Hells Angels and a notorious “ Elite Security company”. And he is friend with Mark Batchelor.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/brett-kebble-planned-his-own-death-1.421952#.VEp5FyKsWSp
http://mg.co.za/article/2011-04-15-brett-kebble-resurrected

Glenn Agliotti, a close friend to Jackie Selebi, made a plea bargain with the Scorpions on charges of drug trafficking in exchange for testifying against Selebi, the former Interpol head accused of corruption and bribery.
So here our dear friend Gerrie Nel !!! comes into play – as he was the one prosecuting both Agliotti and Selebi. In his team at that time were Andrea Johnson and Andrew Leask. All 3 together were heading a Scorpions operation called “ Bad guys” since 2006. Before Agliottis trial came to an end they were removed from the case due to ‘conflict of interest’, after intervention of the Kebble family lawyers. The prosecutors taking over obviously then screw up, so finally Agliotti and his co-accused Clinton Nassif (security head for Kebble) could both walk free.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/how-glenn-agliotti-won-onjudgment-day-20101128/

Mark Strydom, ex boxer, whom Aimee accused of bad mouthing her in court is a friend of Batchelor. Strydom together with Schultz apparently were facing a lot of investigations (fraud, intimidation, assalt, pointing firearms) since before 2000.

On a very funny sidenote . . . Strydom said in 2000 “ he found the lord” . . .:floorlaugh:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-afr...rd-1.46084?ot=inmsa.ArticlePrintPageLayout.ot

Guil Yahav also seems to be a real ‘nice” guy . . . ex bouncer now poker player, in 2002 escaped a murder conviction for the stabbing of Patrick Caetano, another bouncer, together with ab Jonathan Street. Seemingly he was slashing Caetano with a knife in his face, but it was found Caetano was killed by other men thereafter. He further had a brawl with tow-truck "king" Craig Lipschitz and allegedly “bite a chunk of his chin” when attacking Nelson da Silva, a friend of Lipschitz.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/ex-bouncer-on-new-violence-charge-1.435511#.VEp0yiKsWSp

Jared Mortimer who got into the altercation with OP and Guil are mutual friends.

http://thejuice.co.za/top-stories/e...team-and-the-person-involved-in-the-argument/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...before-nightclub-fight-partygoers-allege.html

I stop here for the moment . . there is a lot more names popping up – Radovan Krejcir, Justin Divaris . . . I will need some time to find out how they
all might be connected to OP.

See also which journos have written these articles, familiar names. I really wonder why there was so little about it published during OP trial.

And I bet Uncle is so happy to find some of these guys are his nephews lol. OP is quite the liar, the whole family is probably happy to get a vacation from OP. I cant help thinking OP will demand Uncle to get him out of prison. If he doesnt comply wonder what OP will spu.
Thanks for digging through and presenting so much info on connections. We won't find this in his family's memoirs for sure.

Deleted member 102539 · Oct 24, 2014

Mr Fossil said:
That's a good point and of course the police could put us right if there were more than 10 bullets left in the magazine.

There are many permutations that are possible and one of them will be correct.

If we start with the premise that the bat was used on the door after the gunshots then IMO the sound(s) everyone heard must be the gunshots, it clearly being the loudest, most penetrating sound. That means no one heard the bat. Therefore there must be an explanation for what the Stipps heard earlier that makes sense, perhaps allowing Reeva to be moving into the bathroom (getting closer = louder, although which way you're facing would also achieve this if she backed from the window to the basins/shower) and outside the toilet until just before he kills her. She is either standing, reasoning with OP or listening. Did she really believe that he was going to shoot at her? But she was terrified ("I'm scared of you sometimes ...") and was about the phone someone. Click and he fires.

I can see how "get the **** out of my house" fits, as it could apply directly to Reeva.

I can see how "phone the police" could also fit, as he mocks her threat to do so.

Any ideas how "get down on the floor" could fit and does this give us any help?

Had OP perhaps staged a burglary to frighten Reeva behind the toilet door? That certainly was her biggest anxiety, because she had experienced it already. Meanwhile he got his gun and then walked into Reeva's direction. Maybe, she didn't know until she got the shots, that OP was the shooter/killer.

Mr Fossil · Oct 24, 2014

Another tweeter to follow, Kim Martin's husband. Says Nel is 100% sure that OP knew Reeva was behind the door.

https://twitter.com/TVdionysus/with_replies

ApplesInMyBra · Oct 24, 2014

Estelle said:
When Juan is questioning Jodi about the petrol cans and also the murder scene. Cross examination of Jodi Arias in other words.

Here is a link to the YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7anECy6Tyo

Ginro · Oct 24, 2014

Oscar Pistorius prosecutors consider appeal, chase murder conviction

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-consider-appeal-face-murder-conviction.html

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