Post Verdict - Ross Harris Trial

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I just read appeal. Separation of charges seems to be their best shot. While I agree with most of their other points, I don't know that any of it is compelling enough. Most of it, like the 4th Amendment stuff, seems like boiler-plate from a standard DUI defense.
 
I'm very interested in fellow sleuther analysis of this journalist's (clearly defense- riddled) position of the verdict and sentencing.

https://live.washingtonpost.com/chatological-humor-20161227.html

Finally had time to read this article and find it astonishing that the writer and others still believe RH was railroaded. The writer actually claims RH double life had no bearing on motive. Why doesn't that apply in this case when the desire to live that kind of lifestyle is a very common motive in other cases where a parent kills their child?

A main point the writer made was that Harris “always” went straight to work after Chick-fil-a. Wrong. RH said during interrogation that he and Cooper ate there together 2-3 times every month.

He implies the detectives were lying about the very suspicious child-free searches. During trial we found out that RH did in fact himself type in child free and went to a website where he read an article about "not adding more children to the biomass" and commented “grossness.” I'm not sure how an article about environmental extremism is relevant to this case, but RH did proceed to read other child-free articles on the site. It's still a stretch to claim that the detectives lied when the investigation was simply incomplete during the probable cause hearing.

RH may have inquired about a passport for Cooper, but he had also searched for a cruise with two adults, no children the day before Cooper died.

The writer almost forgot his own daughter in a hot car, so it is impossible for him to be objective in this case and to believe it could be anything other than an accident. His information on this case came from listening to podcasts and secondhand from other observers, hardly the perspective of an impartial juror. And I believe it is incredibly unprofessional for him to indirectly accuse officers of lying under oath when he never even followed the trial firsthand.

There is no reason a jury would want to convict a father of malice murder if it was unintentional. After the verdict, the jury was asked if there was any one thing that persuaded them, they replied that it was the totality of the evidence and no one thing in particular. They simply used their common sense in reviewing the overwhelming evidence in this case.
 
Finally had time to read this article and find it astonishing that the writer and others still believe RH was railroaded. The writer actually claims RH double life had no bearing on motive. Why doesn't that apply in this case when the desire to live that kind of lifestyle is a very common motive in other cases where a parent kills their child?

A main point the writer made was that Harris “always” went straight to work after Chick-fil-a. Wrong. RH said during interrogation that he and Cooper ate there together 2-3 times every month.

He implies the detectives were lying about the very suspicious child-free searches. During trial we found out that RH did in fact himself type in child free and went to a website where he read an article about "not adding more children to the biomass" and commented “grossness.” I'm not sure how an article about environmental extremism is relevant to this case, but RH did proceed to read other child-free articles on the site. It's still a stretch to claim that the detectives lied when the investigation was simply incomplete during the probable cause hearing.

RH may have inquired about a passport for Cooper, but he had also searched for a cruise with two adults, no children the day before Cooper died.

The writer almost forgot his own daughter in a hot car, so it is impossible for him to be objective in this case and to believe it could be anything other than an accident. His information on this case came from listening to podcasts and secondhand from other observers, hardly the perspective of an impartial juror. And I believe it is incredibly unprofessional for him to indirectly accuse officers of lying under oath when he never even followed the trial firsthand.

There is no reason a jury would want to convict a father of malice murder if it was unintentional. After the verdict, the jury was asked if there was any one thing that persuaded them, they replied that it was the totality of the evidence and no one thing in particular. They simply used their common sense in reviewing the overwhelming evidence in this case.

Awesome post, DaisyK. :daisy:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yes, and the only post-verdict quotes, that I have seen from jurors, indicate that none of them believed it possible to forget a child in a car. The case was decided at jury selection. I've talked to others that also only followed the actual trial and agree that it would be hard to convict. Consider if Ross had the Casey Anthony jury...

I did not follow the CA trial much at all (unlike this one, which was embedded in my soul) but I did know enough about it to make this determination: that verdict was, IMO, bogus. I think it's absurd that a defendant could lie so much about EVERYTHING and as a consequence of her constant lying, the jury determined they had "reasonable doubt" because they didn't know which lie to believe.
 
In THAT car and in that short a time frame--especially since the daycare building is within view much of the drive to the office.

And when one finally comes to the realization that Ross did in fact do this on purpose and you juxtapose with devoted dad image and the complete apathy required to walk away from that baby TWICE that day, it leaves you with such a sickening feeling of revulsion that still sends shockwaves through my soul when I think about it. He's as demented as Susan Smith. At least CA seems to retained a sliver of humanity in that she avoided undue suffering and didn't seem to delight in it.
 
1) The writer actually claims RH double life had no bearing on motive. Why doesn't that apply in this case when the desire to live that kind of lifestyle is a very common motive in other cases where a parent kills their child?


2) A main point the writer made was that Harris “always” went straight to work after Chick-fil-a. Wrong. RH said during interrogation that he and Cooper ate there together 2-3 times every month.


3) ...RH did proceed to read other child-free articles on the site.


4) RH may have inquired about a passport for Cooper, but he had also searched for a cruise with two adults, no children the day before Cooper died.


I also just read the article and came to a different conclusion. The author did a stellar job of summarizing the flaws in this case. As to some of DaisyK's points:


1) Because Ross lived the same double-life before, during and after Cooper's birth. Between Ross's comments to his sexting friends, and Leanna's testimony, "something" made it difficult for Ross and Leanna to have a normal sex life. Whether it has Ross's low testosterone, or some kind of physical incompatibility, there was a "practical" nature to Ross's behavior - I'd hardly call it a desire for a "lifestyle."


2) What vexes me about those that believe Ross is guilty, more than anything, is this idea that the only lie Ross ever told was that he forgot Cooper. Evidence showed that Ross rarely took Cooper to Chik, but ate there himself almost every morning.


3) I don't recall any evidence to the effect. In reality, there was a stunning lack of any "research" on anything related to the case. I know we can't put the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube, but I wonder how different this would have turned out without the blatant exagerations and falsehoods present by LE during initial phases of the case.


4) Which fits in perfectly with the actual meaning of "...we all need our escapes." It was no secret that Ross desired more "adult time" with Leanna and other "grown ups." Everybody I know with a child Cooper's age seems to have a single obsession: FINDING A SITTER.


The author of the article makes a great point, that I hadn't considered: If Ross is so evil that he would conceive, plan and carry out a scheme to bake his son to death - even visiting the scene in the middle of the day - why would he do it in a crowded parking lot? And how does such a wicked sociopath, who happens to work with computers, neglect to cover his digital tracks? I must agree with the author that someone willing and able to torture thier son to death would come up with something way more clever than leaving the child to thrash and scream in a crowded parking lot.


Taken as a whole, isn't it as likely that he just forgot the kid?
 
I also just read the article and came to a different conclusion. The author did a stellar job of summarizing the flaws in this case. As to some of DaisyK's points:


1) Because Ross lived the same double-life before, during and after Cooper's birth. Between Ross's comments to his sexting friends, and Leanna's testimony, "something" made it difficult for Ross and Leanna to have a normal sex life. Whether it has Ross's low testosterone, or some kind of physical incompatibility, there was a "practical" nature to Ross's behavior - I'd hardly call it a desire for a "lifestyle."


2) What vexes me about those that believe Ross is guilty, more than anything, is this idea that the only lie Ross ever told was that he forgot Cooper. Evidence showed that Ross rarely took Cooper to Chik, but ate there himself almost every morning.


3) I don't recall any evidence to the effect. In reality, there was a stunning lack of any "research" on anything related to the case. I know we can't put the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube, but I wonder how different this would have turned out without the blatant exagerations and falsehoods present by LE during initial phases of the case.


4) Which fits in perfectly with the actual meaning of "...we all need our escapes." It was no secret that Ross desired more "adult time" with Leanna and other "grown ups." Everybody I know with a child Cooper's age seems to have a single obsession: FINDING A SITTER.


The author of the article makes a great point, that I hadn't considered: If Ross is so evil that he would conceive, plan and carry out a scheme to bake his son to death - even visiting the scene in the middle of the day - why would he do it in a crowded parking lot? And how does such a wicked sociopath, who happens to work with computers, neglect to cover his digital tracks? I must agree with the author that someone willing and able to torture thier son to death would come up with something way more clever than leaving the child to thrash and scream in a crowded parking lot.


Taken as a whole, isn't it as likely that he just forgot the kid?

Not for one millisecond.
Imo, of course.
 
I also just read the article and came to a different conclusion. The author did a stellar job of summarizing the flaws in this case. ...

Taken as a whole, isn't it as likely that he just forgot the kid?

Imo, the article was a combination of incorrect facts and regurgitated defense lawyer tricks from a journalist with an extremely biased point of view.

Boring did an excellent job of debunking the lies from the defense in his final closing arguments:
[video=youtube;ayHtfKbwFgo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayHtfKbwFgo[/video]

RH double life absolutely spoke to his relationship with his wife and child. He was stressed and extremely unhappy at work. He and his wife had money problems, basically living paycheck to paycheck. He researched divorce. LH even said she would have divorced him if she had known he was having sex with other women. They were undoubtedly headed for divorced in any case.

If he had killed his son during or post divorce, child support would have been THE motive and this would have almost certainly been a death penalty case.
 
1) He was stressed and extremely unhappy at work.
2) He and his wife had money problems, basically living paycheck to paycheck.
3) He researched divorce.


First, he didn't reseach divorce. He visited a page on his employer's website that concerned his employee profile and "divorce" was a word on that page (for example, if an employee needed to change their name.) As an experiment, I just checked my employer's site. Guess what - if the Cobb County Police investigated my computer, they would say that I "researched divorce," in December because the word appears on the page where I went to update my benefits for the coming year. This is just another of the prosecution's "mis-characterizations" of the facts that seem so unnecessary if the case is strong.


But, say we agree with all three points, above. That sure seems like a lot to be actively thinking about while driving automatically to work.
 
First, he didn't reseach divorce. He visited a page on his employer's website that concerned his employee profile and "divorce" was a word on that page (for example, if an employee needed to change their name.) As an experiment, I just checked my employer's site. Guess what - if the Cobb County Police investigated my computer, they would say that I "researched divorce," in December because the word appears on the page where I went to update my benefits for the coming year. This is just another of the prosecution's "mis-characterizations" of the facts that seem so unnecessary if the case is strong.


But, say we agree with all three points, above. That sure seems like a lot to be actively thinking about while driving automatically to work.

http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-ne...ross-harris-trial-oct/hpXi49piPXWQipBaaPuiOL/
"On May 9, 2014, a webpage titled "Divorce/Legal Separation Checklist" was accessed following a search on the Home Depot's network, Persinger says. Harris searched "name change" to pull up the page, Persinger testifies."

So he did visit a specific page on divorce he found via a "name change" search. I don't recall the defense giving a non-nefarious explanation for a name change search.
 
First, he didn't reseach divorce. He visited a page on his employer's website that concerned his employee profile and "divorce" was a word on that page (for example, if an employee needed to change their name.) As an experiment, I just checked my employer's site. Guess what - if the Cobb County Police investigated my computer, they would say that I "researched divorce," in December because the word appears on the page where I went to update my benefits for the coming year. This is just another of the prosecution's "mis-characterizations" of the facts that seem so unnecessary if the case is strong.


But, say we agree with all three points, above. That sure seems like a lot to be actively thinking about while driving automatically to work.

Thank you for taking the effort to point out the facts, MrX. I don't have the energy to point out all the lies-assumed-as-fact spin in this case anymore.
 
http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-ne...ross-harris-trial-oct/hpXi49piPXWQipBaaPuiOL/
"On May 9, 2014, a webpage titled "Divorce/Legal Separation Checklist" was accessed following a search on the Home Depot's network, Persinger says. Harris searched "name change" to pull up the page, Persinger testifies."

So he did visit a specific page on divorce he found via a "name change" search. I don't recall the defense giving a non-nefarious explanation for a name change search.

This is not true. Please do better research.
 
Actually, the defense did have an argument for "name change." It could be as innocent as everything at work saying "Justin" and he wanted to change it to "Ross." Also, Persinger would have been ripped to shreds by an more experienced defense team. Since Persinger's answer to the "multiple" views of hot car video was that Ross clicked it twice, in different windows, they should have showed the video in two windows, one second out of sync and said "yes, this is how he watched it multiple times."

I can't recall a case like this where so many folks (including prosecution) keep relying on miss-information.
 
Good grief. RH still launched a specific page with detailed steps about divorce/legal separation (just weeks before he killed Cooper) which was also the day after he and his wife had a big disagreement about Cooper. RH himself described the hot car video and thinking about his son as he watched it. Imo, the points remain the same.

We will have to agree to disagree and see what happens with his appeal.
 
I also just read the article and came to a different conclusion. The author did a stellar job of summarizing the flaws in this case. As to some of DaisyK's points:


1) Because Ross lived the same double-life before, during and after Cooper's birth. Between Ross's comments to his sexting friends, and Leanna's testimony, "something" made it difficult for Ross and Leanna to have a normal sex life. Whether it has Ross's low testosterone, or some kind of physical incompatibility, there was a "practical" nature to Ross's behavior - I'd hardly call it a desire for a "lifestyle."


2) What vexes me about those that believe Ross is guilty, more than anything, is this idea that the only lie Ross ever told was that he forgot Cooper. Evidence showed that Ross rarely took Cooper to Chik, but ate there himself almost every morning.


3) I don't recall any evidence to the effect. In reality, there was a stunning lack of any "research" on anything related to the case. I know we can't put the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube, but I wonder how different this would have turned out without the blatant exagerations and falsehoods present by LE during initial phases of the case.


4) Which fits in perfectly with the actual meaning of "...we all need our escapes." It was no secret that Ross desired more "adult time" with Leanna and other "grown ups." Everybody I know with a child Cooper's age seems to have a single obsession: FINDING A SITTER.


The author of the article makes a great point, that I hadn't considered: If Ross is so evil that he would conceive, plan and carry out a scheme to bake his son to death - even visiting the scene in the middle of the day - why would he do it in a crowded parking lot? And how does such a wicked sociopath, who happens to work with computers, neglect to cover his digital tracks? I must agree with the author that someone willing and able to torture thier son to death would come up with something way more clever than leaving the child to thrash and scream in a crowded parking lot.


Taken as a whole, isn't it as likely that he just forgot the kid?

1. Ross had no trouble with arousal with other women or by himself (hence his "dick pics" <---quoting Stoddard), his arousal problem seems to be strictly with Leanna. The problems started before Cooper, and only seem to have escalated (prostitutes, seeking out underage girls--or at least not running from it when he found out, but continued "talking," then men [very taboo in his religion]) after Cooper. I'm no psychologist, but it seems like Ross's sexual problems are similar to sexual addictions---"marital" sex was probably too "safe," too "normal" for him, and he craved "illicit" sex. His sexual behaviors were a LIFESTYLE =, he was so involved in this sexually-based behavior it was detracting from his work performance--he was engaging in it until late at night and resumed as soon as he woke up. It wasn't just his lifestyle, it seems to have BECOME his life.

2. He took Cooper about once a month, I wouldn't quantify that as rare, maybe infrequently. I go to Chili's about 1-2x per year, that's rare, I go to Pizza Hut about once a month, that's not rare. Did it not come out in trial that when he stopped by Chik-Fil-A by himself, he went through the drive thru? It can be presumed then that brought the food into work. The absence of bringing food in would be a memory trigger. If he was in autopilot mode after pulling out of CFA, when he got to work his habit would be to look for his food which would lead to "oh ya, I ate...with Cooper...Cooper...oh crap, 'hi there, kiddo' gotta get you to daycare."

3) I don't care about the searches. I only car about the logistics of the car, constant memory triggers throughout the day, time after CFA, logistics of the parking space, etc.


Is it possible he forgot?

It is possible that a parent can forget. In normal circumstances you would be right. But there is nothing normal about watching videos about hot cars, commenting in the comment field "it would be terrible if my son were in that car," talking about hot car deaths "all the time" with his wife, starting a "look back" routine when getting out of the vehicle---and then *poof* it all comes together in one grandiose, cosmic alignment against him in which he: forgot Cooper within 30 seconds of pulling into the parking lot (despite memory triggers all around him), Cooper happened to fall asleep, he forgot Cooper all day long despite constant memory triggers, was only willing go to lunch if someone else drove, went back to the car (doesn't remember Cooper still), talks with Leanna around 4 pm about getting Cooper from daycare (doesn't remember him STILL), gets in the car and doesn't smell anything unusual enough to look around and discover Cooper right next to his elbow.

Now you tell me, does your car smell so much like pee that if pee-filled diaper (baking in the sun all day long) was less than a foot away from you, you wouldn't smell it? You wouldn't look around to see what is causing that rancid smell? Am I expected to believe that Ross routinely peed in his car so this baking pee smell wouldn't be unusual?

I have had a pee-filled diaper next to passenger seat on the floorboard for a few hours baking in the sun. I smelled it IMMEDIATELY after coming back to the van from shopping in the mall--and it had been about 4 hours--and my Honda Odyssey is much larger, with more air in which the smell could diffuse, than his FORMER Hyundai Tucson.

Compound that with being interrogated and remembering every fine detail of the day EXCEPT the trip back to the car and wanting to get out of there to be "an advocate." Joker had this planned for weeks, even how he was going to get fame and notoriety out of it.

Is it possible to forget? Yes. Did I give Ross the benefit of the doubt, yes. Did the prosecution prove beyond a REASONABLE doubt that this it is unreasonable for this to have been unintentional, yes.
 
Actually, the defense did have an argument for "name change." It could be as innocent as everything at work saying "Justin" and he wanted to change it to "Ross." Also, Persinger would have been ripped to shreds by an more experienced defense team. Since Persinger's answer to the "multiple" views of hot car video was that Ross clicked it twice, in different windows, they should have showed the video in two windows, one second out of sync and said "yes, this is how he watched it multiple times."

I can't recall a case like this where so many folks (including prosecution) keep relying on miss-information.

He worked for the company for nearly two years with "Justin" as his email name. He just interviewed for another job and was JUST rejected. He had just started discussing another job position with Leanna. He was planning on LEAVING. Why work somewhere two years being okay with Justin, but now suddenly as he is planning his way out he is worried about his email saying "Ross." That doesn't make one bit of sense. That was the dumbest counter-argument of the trial.
 
But, say we agree with all three points, above. That sure seems like a lot to be actively thinking about while driving automatically to work.

They are everyday stresses for millions of people.

I doubt he was actively thinking about any of that, actually. Too busy workin' his 'phone, wasn't he.
 
NCTeacher -

I don't find anything sinister in the "hot car" chatter with Stoddard, but I may need to re-watch that footage. To me it sounds like "Ross being Ross" and talking at length about the subject at hand. His time at Cobb HQ looks much more to me like someone on the Asperger's Spectrum - talking away, often out of context with the situation at hand.

Obviously he was also trying to cast events in the best light possible. The talk of double checking and being obsessed with hot car deaths was probably improvised, and he may have thought that mentioning the trip to the car after lunch would make him look like a total idiot.

I did have trouble with is behavior after getting in the car, but it can still fit the accident theory. What if he realized, as soon as he got in the car, what had happened? What if he sped off, freaking out, trying to figure out what to do? What if his fear at that point was "what will other people think of me? Leanna?? My Brother???" His demeanor at the scene and at Cobb are consistent with such a scenario.

I just can't bridge the gap between this being a well planned murder and literally everything that happened that day pointing to zero planning whatsoever. Even his reaction when Stoddard told him to wait in a cell - Ross's "say, what?!!" double-take is classic. It was the reaction of someone who had no clue he was ever going to be charged with a crime. I find it hard to believe that he planned and carried this heinous crime with zero consideration of consequences. Look at Jodi's first hours custody - she was shucking and jiving, but harbored no allusions as to the long road ahead.
 
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