Post Verdict -Working Out The Unresolved Questions

[wasnt_me]

Geevee,

You are right. Deeper into the police report, Flores notes that Travis did contact Chris Hughes around noon on June 4th. At the beginning, Flores says incoming or outgoing phone use, but he later clarifies it. So sorry to confuse you.

I was right, though, that Zach did say he was house-sitting for Mandy and her parents who were on a cruise. That was Monday night. Zach doesn't say that he spent the night that night. He doesn't say that he spent the night Tuesday. But I'm thinking house-sitting means he's sleeping there, especially if he had to clean it up on Wednesday.

All it says for June 4th is that he "got up and returned the rental car he was using." He said he was cleaning Mandy's house that day because she and her parents were returning on the 5th from their cruise.

Without more information, I'm not sure whether to say Zach was in the house when Jodi allegedly arrived or not.

 

[wasnt_me]

From the police report, Clancy seemed to blow Jodi out of the water right away. I was trying to figure out who Clancy was, and I recalled that Travis was talking about her on the sex call. Clancy was the "drunk woman" hanging all over Travis that night at the conference when Jodi got all upset.

Does anyone else remember that? IIRC, Jodi was jealous of the woman (though ALV saw no jealousy in Jodi) and that caused her to run into the bathroom. Travis was saying on the phone call that Abe had kissed his girlfriend and that had pissed Travis off. It sounds like that stuff happened the same night and it sounds like Jodi kissed Abe to make Travis jealous after Clancy had been hanging all over him.

Did anyone else make that connection? But Jodi make it sound like Clancy was a random girl. She wasn't. She was one of Travis' Utah friends, apparently.

 

[Furiously_Following]

I want to give TA the benefit of EVERY doubt--especially at the time of his murder. So many people have given JA the benefit of the doubt despite all of her PROVEN lies. It's in our nature to give other humans the benefit of the doubt in so many instances.

1.) I don't believe he knew she was coming to AZ that night. -----(Lack of phone contact leading up to her arrival.)
2.) I don't believe he let her in his house that night. -----(SHE said she watched him UNAWARE on the computer, he checked email without THE HACKER there to see, SHE SAID SHE LET HERSELF IN!)
3.) I don't believe they napped together that morning. -----(His text msg around noon that day-but phone was found downstairs in his office.)
4.) I don't believe they had sex that day. -----(AFTER the text, he left his phone downstairs, grab his cam, go upstairs to pose for bed pics???--neither of them look pleased in the pictures.)
5.) I don't believe he posed for any pictures willingly that day. -----(I believe he was held hostage from the moment she came in his home AFTER the text msg to Chris Hughes @ noon.)

I believe the very worst of Jodi--
* she stole the grandpa gun
* snuck into AZ
* snuck into his house
* used the gun to hold him hostage until she got exactly what she wanted------Travis terrified, submissive, obeying her every command, humiliated by the photography,

She already knew his darkest fears:
*his previous encounter @ gunpoint
*his childhood terror/abuse/submissiveness/helplessness
*his privacy/modesty regarding prior photos
She used this knowledge to ensure that he would pay for his threats to reveal her as a Sociopath--she showed him how wrong he was--what a TRUE PSYCHOPATH she really is.

 

[pocketaccent]

When I purchased my digital camera, I had to set it to correct time zone at first. What if Travis never bothered to do that or didn't do that correctly for his Sony?
What if the time on the new camera was actually ahead by 1,2,3, or 4 hours?

I began to think about this possibility because if Enrique normally gets home from work 6:00-6:30 pm, and the dragging picture is 5:33 pm, that time frame is too short for Jodi to do what she did such as stuffing him in the shower (this probably took some time), deleting pictures, laundry, attempt to clean up the scene, change into non-bloody clothing, clean herself up, gather and pack up gun and knife, lock his bedroom door, put back the license plate (upside down :floorlaugh if she did it there, etc.

She had sex, murdered a man and did all the above works after eating one banana that day? One banana gives only about 100 calories.

 

[neesaki]

Yeah, what you say is right, Geevee.

I thought I'd seen in the report that Zach had made two statements about the camera. 1--Travis had "just" bought it, and two, Zach had advised him a couple months prior about it. I couldn't find the second statement in the report when I went back over it, so I assumed I'd somehow misread something.

I agree about his roommates and friends. I don't really see how Jodi developed a scenario in her defense that she was a "dirty little secret," because these people in Travis' life knew about her. I don't think I've seen one interview or statement from a person who was involved with Travis who said they didn't know about Jodi.

As for Dan Freeman, what you say is what I thought, too, but Dan wasn't mentioned on the report of the initial scene. I haven't been back through the whole report to see if his interview is there, though. I'm up to Zach's police station interview. But I also want to see the interviews done by other officers of Zach's girlfriend, Amanda, and others. It's public record, right? How do we get a hold of it?

I'm thinking the "dirty little secret" came from: after Travis and her had broken it off, but were still seeing each other occasionally and having sex. She resented him for that, so either actually saw it that way, or she just created it out of spite and claimed it was throughout the relationship.

She's such a liar and will fabricate anything. It's like breathing to her. :moo:

 

[LambChop]

When I purchased my digital camera, I had to set it to correct time zone at first. What if Travis never bothered to do that or didn't do that correctly for his Sony?
What if the time on the new camera was actually ahead by 1,2,3, or 4 hours?

I began to think about this possibility because if Enrique normally gets home from work 6:00-6:30 pm, and the dragging picture is 5:33 pm, that time frame is too short for Jodi to do what she did such as stuffing him in the shower (this probably took some time), deleting pictures, laundry, attempt to clean up the scene, change into non-bloody clothing, clean herself up, gather and pack up gun and knife, lock his bedroom door, put back the license plate (upside down :floorlaugh if she did it there, etc.

She had sex, murdered a man and did all the above works after eating one banana that day? One banana gives only about 100 calories.

Enrique claimed he worked later that day and did not get home until later that evening. JA admitted to the time she left. The importance of the time on the camera are the minutes between the pictures that were taken and not necessarily the time of day. Also she arrived in Utah at the time it would have taken her to drive leaving Mesa at 6 or 7 o'clock at night. Plus she seemed to have good at "sneaking" in and out of homes without being detected. jmo

 

[geevee]

When I purchased my digital camera, I had to set it to correct time zone at first. What if Travis never bothered to do that or didn't do that correctly for his Sony?
What if the time on the new camera was actually ahead by 1,2,3, or 4 hours?

I began to think about this possibility because if Enrique normally gets home from work 6:00-6:30 pm, and the dragging picture is 5:33 pm, that time frame is too short for Jodi to do what she did such as stuffing him in the shower (this probably took some time), deleting pictures, laundry, attempt to clean up the scene, change into non-bloody clothing, clean herself up, gather and pack up gun and knife, lock his bedroom door, put back the license plate (upside down :floorlaugh if she did it there, etc.

She had sex, murdered a man and did all the above works after eating one banana that day? One banana gives only about 100 calories.

That's been one of my working theories of the time factor, either everything happened earlier and she copied the pics onto his camera stick just before leaving, or the time zone wasn't set and camera time off by an hour or more (most likely of the two, imo). She said whichever direction she was driving upon leaving the sun was setting and getting in her eyes, the sun isn't setting that low at 6:00-6:30 p.m. in June in the far west of the US, it's near its highest point with summer solstice a little more than two weeks away. And I believe Enrique said he was a bit later than usual but was home no later than 6:30. I do think she removed that screen on his office window, but not sure if that was on entry or departure.

We know Travis had a teleconference set up for 6:30 p.m., if he was home all day, would he nap (sheet wrinkles on his back in shower pics) until close to 5:30 before getting in the shower? Seems to me he was better at time management than that.

She did mention cleaning up her car from trip debris (was it when the fog cleared enough to see blood on her hands, or when she called Ryan or left Travis the voice mail?) she either packed food or stopped somewhere before, she couldn't have gone too long without more calories after all she expended that day.

Do fast food drive-throughs have security cameras she might have been afraid to get caught on? Going through one, sitting in the lot (or parking somewhere) to eat and then getting on the road could have taken enough time for the sun to get low enough to be in her eyes (or the rear view mirror if she went east for weapons disposal) but unlikely at the time she states.

 

[east2west]

Dido "Here With Me"

 

[LambChop]

Didn't JA say she had blood on her feet/shoes when she because "aware" because she had to rinse off with the bottled water. How could that be when she had to have taken a shower to get down those stairs without leaving a trail of blood. jmo

 

[Truth Detector]

One question no longer unresolved:

Judge Sets New Trial Date for Jodi Arias
PHOENIX January 13, 2014 (AP)

Associated Press

A judge has set a March 17 trial date to decide whether Jodi Arias should be sentenced to life in prison or the death penalty.

The 33-year-old Arias was convicted of murder last year, but the jury deadlocked on her punishment. A new penalty phase must be held in which lawyers are expected to bring evidence and call witnesses.

The Maricopa County court system announced the date Monday after a closed-door hearing in the case.

The first trial became an international sensation as it revealed violent and tawdry details about the crime and people followed the case on live video streams. But the judge will limit video in the courtroom for the next trial.

 

[ElleElle]

From the police report, Clancy seemed to blow Jodi out of the water right away. I was trying to figure out who Clancy was, and I recalled that Travis was talking about her on the sex call. Clancy was the "drunk woman" hanging all over Travis that night at the conference when Jodi got all upset.

Does anyone else remember that? IIRC, Jodi was jealous of the woman (though ALV saw no jealousy in Jodi) and that caused her to run into the bathroom. Travis was saying on the phone call that Abe had kissed his girlfriend and that had pissed Travis off. It sounds like that stuff happened the same night and it sounds like Jodi kissed Abe to make Travis jealous after Clancy had been hanging all over him.

Did anyone else make that connection? But Jodi make it sound like Clancy was a random girl. She wasn't. She was one of Travis' Utah friends, apparently.

BBM ~ Yes, I remember that. Didn't Travis confront Abe in the bathroom as well? IMO, Jodi was extremely jealous of Clancy and ANY woman that came with 1 foot of Travis.

 

[ElleElle]

When I purchased my digital camera, I had to set it to correct time zone at first. What if Travis never bothered to do that or didn't do that correctly for his Sony?
What if the time on the new camera was actually ahead by 1,2,3, or 4 hours?

I began to think about this possibility because if Enrique normally gets home from work 6:00-6:30 pm, and the dragging picture is 5:33 pm, that time frame is too short for Jodi to do what she did such as stuffing him in the shower (this probably took some time), deleting pictures, laundry, attempt to clean up the scene, change into non-bloody clothing, clean herself up, gather and pack up gun and knife, lock his bedroom door, put back the license plate (upside down :floorlaugh if she did it there, etc.

She had sex, murdered a man and did all the above works after eating one banana that day? One banana gives only about 100 calories.

:seeya: You'd be surprised what one can do on an adrenaline rush. Also, who knows, maybe Jodi took stimulants.

 

[ElleElle]

Didn't JA say she had blood on her feet/shoes when she because "aware" because she had to rinse off with the bottled water. How could that be when she had to have taken a shower to get down those stairs without leaving a trail of blood. jmo

Yes, another lie in her bucket of lies. She must've showered before she left... she would of been a bloody mess.

 

[pocketaccent]

That's been one of my working theories of the time factor, either everything happened earlier and she copied the pics onto his camera stick just before leaving, or the time zone wasn't set and camera time off by an hour or more (most likely of the two, imo). She said whichever direction she was driving upon leaving the sun was setting and getting in her eyes, the sun isn't setting that low at 6:00-6:30 p.m. in June in the far west of the US, it's near its highest point with summer solstice a little more than two weeks away. And I believe Enrique said he was a bit later than usual but was home no later than 6:30. I do think she removed that screen on his office window, but not sure if that was on entry or departure.

We know Travis had a teleconference set up for 6:30 p.m., if he was home all day, would he nap (sheet wrinkles on his back in shower pics) until close to 5:30 before getting in the shower? Seems to me he was better at time management than that.

She did mention cleaning up her car from trip debris (was it when the fog cleared enough to see blood on her hands, or when she called Ryan or left Travis the voice mail?) she either packed food or stopped somewhere before, she couldn't have gone too long without more calories after all she expended that day.

Do fast food drive-throughs have security cameras she might have been afraid to get caught on? Going through one, sitting in the lot (or parking somewhere) to eat and then getting on the road could have taken enough time for the sun to get low enough to be in her eyes (or the rear view mirror if she went east for weapons disposal) but unlikely at the time she states.

Known fact plus a bit of assumption:
Per Flores report, on June 4, Zach came home 3 PM - 4 PM then goes back to girlfriend's house to clean and returns 9 PM. I'm assuming he spent June 3 night - June 4 morning at girlfriend's house for house sitting.
Per Flores report, on June 4, Enrique left home some time in the morning and returns home around 6- 6: 30PM.
Actual time stamps on evidence pictures: Nude pictures start at 1:42 PM. Shower pictures start at 5:22 PM.
Last activities on laptop: 3:34 PM per Martinez direct to Manendez, 4:54 PM per Wilmott cross, 4:19 PM per Flores report.

If I assume the camera time is behind 1 hour:
Nude picture start at 2:42 PM.
Shower picture starts at 6:22 PM.
Not possible because Enrique came home 6 - 6:30 PM.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 1 hour:
Nude pictures start at 12:42 PM.
Shower pictures start at 4:22 PM.
Maybe possible : texts Hughes around noon ok, avoids Zach being home 3-4 PM, but 4:19 pm usage on laptop is so close to shower pictures and need to assume Jodi used his laptop after killing.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 2 hours:
Nude pictures start at 11:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 3:22 PM.
Not possible because of Zach

If I assume the camera time is ahead 3 hours:
Nude pictures start at 10:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 2:22 PM.
Possible, but Jodi had to stay quiet when Zach is home 3-4 PM. Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 4 hours:
Nude pictures start at 9:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 1:22 PM.
Possible. Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 5 hours:
Nude pictures start at 8:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 12:22 PM.
Possible, Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

Because of phone activity around noon with Hughes, the camera time cannot be off more than 5 hours ahead.

My conclusion : Many different scenarios can be gleaned if we assume Travis's camera time was off.

 

[Truth Detector]

Known fact plus a bit of assumption:
Per Flores report, on June 4, Zach came home 3 PM - 4 PM then goes back to girlfriend's house to clean and returns 9 PM. I'm assuming he spent June 3 night - June 4 morning at girlfriend's house for house sitting.
Per Flores report, on June 4, Enrique left home some time in the morning and returns home around 6- 6: 30PM.
Actual time stamps on evidence pictures: Nude pictures start at 1:42 PM. Shower pictures start at 5:22 PM.
Last activities on laptop: 3:34 PM per Martinez direct to Manendez, 4:54 PM per Wilmott cross, 4:19 PM per Flores report.

If I assume the camera time is behind 1 hour:
Nude picture start at 2:42 PM.
Shower picture starts at 6:22 PM.
Not possible because Enrique came home 6 - 6:30 PM.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 1 hour:
Nude pictures start at 12:42 PM.
Shower pictures start at 4:22 PM.
Maybe possible : texts Hughes around noon ok, avoids Zach being home 3-4 PM, but 4:19 pm usage on laptop is so close to shower pictures and need to assume Jodi used his laptop after killing.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 2 hours:
Nude pictures start at 11:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 3:22 PM.
Not possible because of Zach

If I assume the camera time is ahead 3 hours:
Nude pictures start at 10:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 2:22 PM.
Possible, but Jodi had to stay quiet when Zach is home 3-4 PM. Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 4 hours:
Nude pictures start at 9:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 1:22 PM.
Possible. Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 5 hours:
Nude pictures start at 8:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 12:22 PM.
Possible, Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

Because of phone activity around noon with Hughes, the camera time cannot be off more than 5 hours ahead.

My conclusion : Many different scenarios can be gleaned if we assume Travis's camera time was off.

We discussed this in copious detail during the trial as well.

Anyone with access to the camera and simple knowledge of how to change the date/time could have altered it.

However, neither JM nor Defense Team disputed the date/timestamps on those digital images; ergo, both sides effectively stipulated their accuracy.

 

[Tiger09]

Re: the blood on her feet- she may have showered, but there was probably blood on the floor. I think she got the blood that way and then put shoes on. She may have tracked blood downstairs, hence the floor cleaner. One of the roommates could have returned and so she left. Or she could have just thought someone was coming in.

 

[Truth Detector]

From the police report, Clancy seemed to blow Jodi out of the water right away. I was trying to figure out who Clancy was, and I recalled that Travis was talking about her on the sex call. Clancy was the "drunk woman" hanging all over Travis that night at the conference when Jodi got all upset.

Does anyone else remember that? IIRC, Jodi was jealous of the woman (though ALV saw no jealousy in Jodi) and that caused her to run into the bathroom. Travis was saying on the phone call that Abe had kissed his girlfriend and that had pissed Travis off. It sounds like that stuff happened the same night and it sounds like Jodi kissed Abe to make Travis jealous after Clancy had been hanging all over him.

Did anyone else make that connection? But Jodi make it sound like Clancy was a random girl. She wasn't. She was one of Travis' Utah friends, apparently.

Sometimes that picture's worth a thousand words.

Here is Clancy's tip provided to Det. Flores on June 11, 2008 -- three days after the murder:

 

[geevee]

Known fact plus a bit of assumption:
Per Flores report, on June 4, Zach came home 3 PM - 4 PM then goes back to girlfriend's house to clean and returns 9 PM. I'm assuming he spent June 3 night - June 4 morning at girlfriend's house for house sitting.
Per Flores report, on June 4, Enrique left home some time in the morning and returns home around 6- 6: 30PM.
Actual time stamps on evidence pictures: Nude pictures start at 1:42 PM. Shower pictures start at 5:22 PM.
Last activities on laptop: 3:34 PM per Martinez direct to Manendez, 4:54 PM per Wilmott cross, 4:19 PM per Flores report.

If I assume the camera time is behind 1 hour:
Nude picture start at 2:42 PM.
Shower picture starts at 6:22 PM.
Not possible because Enrique came home 6 - 6:30 PM.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 1 hour:
Nude pictures start at 12:42 PM.
Shower pictures start at 4:22 PM.
Maybe possible : texts Hughes around noon ok, avoids Zach being home 3-4 PM, but 4:19 pm usage on laptop is so close to shower pictures and need to assume Jodi used his laptop after killing.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 2 hours:
Nude pictures start at 11:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 3:22 PM.
Not possible because of Zach

If I assume the camera time is ahead 3 hours:
Nude pictures start at 10:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 2:22 PM.
Possible, but Jodi had to stay quiet when Zach is home 3-4 PM. Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 4 hours:
Nude pictures start at 9:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 1:22 PM.
Possible. Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 5 hours:
Nude pictures start at 8:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 12:22 PM.
Possible, Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

Because of phone activity around noon with Hughes, the camera time cannot be off more than 5 hours ahead.

My conclusion : Many different scenarios can be gleaned if we assume Travis's camera time was off.

Thank you for putting that together! When I was questioning JA's testimony that they slept until around 1:00 before having sex and taking pics/video and mentioned CH's text to Travis at 12:13, it was mentioned that we didn't know if Travis read or responded to that text, since this is all Flores said in his report about it:

"Travis' cellular phone was located in the downstairs office of the home. The last outgoing or incoming call was made at 1213 hours on 6-4-08. There were other incoming calls or text messages into the phone after that, but none were ever answered."

But down in the section where Flores interviewed CH he says:

"Chris stated he last had contact with Travis on Wednesday 6-4-08 at around noon. This was via phone text message. Travis had a very important telephone conference call on Wednesday 6-4-08 at 1900 hours, which he had missed. Travis was supposed to be hosting the conference call, but no one was able to get ahold of him. This information matched what we had found on Travis' phone on the day of the search warrant. The last outgoing text by Travis was to Chris Hughes and that was the last known contact he had with anyone."

So he did reply to the text, which throws a(nother) kink into her story that they both slept until 1:00. She didn't know about that text he sent CH, nor did she have any idea about the floor cleaning except that furniture was off the tile, I really don't think she was in the house as early as she has stated/testified but I can't get there from here going by the time stamps. lol

 

[pocketaccent]

Thank you for putting that together! When I was questioning JA's testimony that they slept until around 1:00 before having sex and taking pics/video and mentioned CH's text to Travis at 12:13, it was mentioned that we didn't know if Travis read or responded to that text, since this is all Flores said in his report about it:

"Travis' cellular phone was located in the downstairs office of the home. The last outgoing or incoming call was made at 1213 hours on 6-4-08. There were other incoming calls or text messages into the phone after that, but none were ever answered."

But down in the section where Flores interviewed CH he says:

"Chris stated he last had contact with Travis on Wednesday 6-4-08 at around noon. This was via phone text message. Travis had a very important telephone conference call on Wednesday 6-4-08 at 1900 hours, which he had missed. Travis was supposed to be hosting the conference call, but no one was able to get ahold of him. This information matched what we had found on Travis' phone on the day of the search warrant. The last outgoing text by Travis was to Chris Hughes and that was the last known contact he had with anyone."

So he did reply to the text, which throws a(nother) kink into her story that they both slept until 1:00. She didn't know about that text he sent CH, nor did she have any idea about the floor cleaning except that furniture was off the tile, I really don't think she was in the house as early as she has stated/testified but I can't get there from here going by the time stamps. lol

Jodi is the only one who knows the timeline on June 4. She must feel so superior. Maybe Martinez knows a little more than us but his job was to prove premeditation and not the exact timeline. And he did a fine job.

I think Jodi really wanted to be stealth and came inside the house after making sure both roommates were gone.
I also think Travis died earlier than 5:30 PM. Jodi used his laptop a lot after killing him and learned that Travis was watching youtube videos on early morning.

 

[LambChop]

Jodi is the only one who knows the timeline on June 4. She must feel so superior. Maybe Martinez knows a little more than us but his job was to prove premeditation and not the exact timeline. And he did a fine job.

I think Jodi really wanted to be stealth and came inside the house after making sure both roommates were gone.
I also think Travis died earlier than 5:30 PM. Jodi used his laptop a lot after killing him and learned that Travis was watching youtube videos on early morning.

Do you have a link for that information because from what I remember Travis was on the phone around 12:30am with CH when one of the roommates (Zack, I believe) was getting ready to leave the house and saw him on the phone. I also don't recall that the laptop was used after his death. jmo