Post Verdict -Working Out The Unresolved Questions

[LambChop]

Do we have her whole 18 page letter to fire Nurmi somewhere? I'm curious about the list of things she claims Nurmi didn't do, especially as it relates to this Chaitanya Lay.

Was Lay a friend of Jodi's for real? (LOL just to ask it as a legit question.)

When I listened to ALV again, probably for the first time since I had always fallen asleep on her, she was talking at the end of the timeline about TA's back and forth with Lay, which indicated that they'd at least had oral sex. I believe it was learned about via IM's or text messages.

Since Jodi wanted the information in so bad, I can only speculate that her snooping through his accounts and learning about Lay added "gas cans" to her angry fire.

Maybe this should be in the lies thread. LOL jmo

 

[Truth Detector]

The problems with this email are bountiful, beginning with her testimony that she wasn't mad that he hadn't given her credit. She claims she was just "bummed." You do not send this long piece if you are just "bummed."

And her passive aggressive poem she wrote him on May 19th. The 2nd to last line was, "May your days be filled with stimulation and just not insimulation...."

In`sim´u`late
v. t. 1. To accuse.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Insimulate

In her testimony, nurmi asks how she hoped the poem would have been received. She says she expected a compliment like Travis had complimented her other work.

Really, Jodi? A compliment for a poem that passively aggressively "insimulates" him of "insimulating" you?

Let me just add, Merriam doesn't seem to recognize this word when I looked it up. HLN writes that she actually wrote "in simulation."

sim·u·la·tion (smy-lshn)
n.
1. The act or process of simulating.
2. An imitation; a sham.
3. Assumption of a false appearance.
4.
a. Imitation or representation, as of a potential situation or in experimental testing.
b. Representation of the operation or features of one process or system through the use of another: computer simulation of an in-flight emergency.

And below that definition:

1. imitation or enactment, as of conditions anticipated.
2. the act or process of pretending; feigning.
3. an assumption or imitation of a particular appearance or form; counterfeit.
4. the representation of the behavior or characteristics of one system through the use of another system, esp. using a computer.
5. a conscious attempt to feign some mental or physical disorder.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/simulation

So what the heck is she really saying?

Side note, Travis' breakup poem for Linda:

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/04/25/travis-alexander-ex-girlfriend-linda-ballard-poem-jodi-arias

I say she was reaching -- in vain -- for a workable rhyme of sorts.

In which case, after murdering him and trying to save her own sorry "carcass", she also ended up trying to frame his 'incrimination'.

But seriously, it fits ElleElle's point as well, which was the only dynamic whereby she had any hold over him whatsoever.

I recall that whole, stupid, "blossoming" set-up conversation where she laments that they will be settled down in the future with (paraphrasing here, but not much) less freaky spouses.

IIRC his comment about daily self-gratification frequency since he'd met her was also within that phone sex call context, and she was trying to plant in him some second thoughts about whether he really wanted to kiss the 'real thing' [the pair of surgical enhancements notwithstanding] goodbye for good.

 

[wasnt_me]

Maybe this should be in the lies thread. LOL jmo

Yeah, this whole board might have to fit in that thread after sifting through Arias' versions of everything.

 

[wasnt_me]

I say she was reaching -- in vain -- for a workable rhyme of sorts.

In which case, after murdering him and trying to save her own sorry "carcass", she also ended up trying to frame his 'incrimination'.

But seriously, it fits ElleElle's point as well, which was the only dynamic whereby she had any hold over him whatsoever.

I recall that whole, stupid, "blossoming" set-up conversation where she laments that they will be settled down in the future with (paraphrasing here, but not much) less freaky spouses.

IIRC his comment about daily self-gratification frequency since he'd met her was also within that phone sex call context, and she was trying to plant in him some second thoughts about whether he really wanted to kiss the 'real thing' [the pair of surgical enhancements notwithstanding] goodbye for good.

Her "in simulation" breasts...:floorlaugh:

 

[wasnt_me]

Did Travis Alexander Sleep With One of Jodi Arias' Friends? Jodi Reveals Text Message - YouTube

Read at : 0:21 seconds ..................


...

Yeah, this video is what started me even looking at Ms. Lay.

 

[dcsmyth1]

For me, the biggest "unresolved question" is, what is the missing link between the two Jodis?

On the one hand, we have the "cool black widow" Jodi, planning the murder from May 28 and carrying out all those steps. Then she coolly spends 12 hours with him, sleeping and having sex. Then she is coolly taking photos in the shower, presumably waiting for the right moment.

And then out of nowhere we have the "ferocious pit bull" Jodi, attacking him with a knife. Doing it that way carried considerable risk for her, yet she was in a state of such frenzy that the risk didn't matter. And she was in a state of such frenzy that a bigger stronger male essentially had no chance. Think about that. And then the 'coup de gras'. I haven't seen this mentioned, but IMO it's quite likely that she didn't just slash his throat, but was actually trying to decapitate him, and only stopped because she met the resistance of the spine. Maybe she had looked at a couple of those Islamic beheading videos on the internet.

So, what is the missing link between the cool plotter Jodi and the rabid mad dog Jodi? Why didn't cool Jodi just poison his drink, or shoot him as he slept? Why and how did mad dog Jodi suddenly spring into existence?

These are the real unresolved questions to me. I pretty much know what the responses are likely to be, but I haven't found any of those explanations to be satisfactory. I can't figure out the missing link between the two Jodis, assuming they both existed, and assuming that all her story was just lies...

 

[Jaykayelle]

http://jodi-arias.wikispaces.com/Jodi%27s+email+to+Travis+May+16

If this one is the one you speak of, it is interesting as so contradictory.

Looking at this letter again, I think there was a lot less to the relationship between Travis and Jodi than I previously thought. It sounds so desperate, jealous and attention seeking (typical BPD in my experience and IMO). She was a woman obsessed. He, not so much. Reading this letter again has given me the creeps, big time. She is one scarey woman.

 

[pocketaccent]

For me, the biggest "unresolved question" is, what is the missing link between the two Jodis?

On the one hand, we have the "cool black widow" Jodi, planning the murder from May 28 and carrying out all those steps. Then she coolly spends 12 hours with him, sleeping and having sex. Then she is coolly taking photos in the shower, presumably waiting for the right moment.

And then out of nowhere we have the "ferocious pit bull" Jodi, attacking him with a knife. Doing it that way carried considerable risk for her, yet she was in a state of such frenzy that the risk didn't matter. And she was in a state of such frenzy that a bigger stronger male essentially had no chance. Think about that. And then the 'coup de gras'. I haven't seen this mentioned, but IMO it's quite likely that she didn't just slash his throat, but was actually trying to decapitate him, and only stopped because she met the resistance of the spine. Maybe she had looked at a couple of those Islamic beheading videos on the internet.

So, what is the missing link between the cool plotter Jodi and the rabid mad dog Jodi? Why didn't cool Jodi just poison his drink, or shoot him as he slept? Why and how did mad dog Jodi suddenly spring into existence?

These are the real unresolved questions to me. I pretty much know what the responses are likely to be, but I haven't found any of those explanations to be satisfactory. I can't figure out the missing link between the two Jodis, assuming they both existed, and assuming that all her story was just lies...

There is only one person who can explain the 'missing link' and his name is Travis.

What is important to realize is that Jodi premeditated his murder whether she was the cool plotter or the mad dog. Premeditation requires only thinking: I want to kill him. She thought this 27 times stabbing, 1 time slitting, one time shooting, and probably 1000 times in Yreka - Mesa.

 

[dcsmyth1]

There is only one person who can explain the 'missing link' and his name is Travis.

What is important to realize is that Jodi premeditated his murder whether she was the cool plotter or the mad dog. Premeditation requires only thinking: I want to kill him. She thought this 27 times stabbing, 1 time slitting, one time shooting, and probably 1000 times in Yreka - Mesa.

I was in no way way suggesting that this "missing link" absolves Arias of premeditation. I simply want to understand what really happened, out of healthy curiosity. The state's version of the events simply doesn't fill in those gaps. Hence, that is an "unresolved question", which happens to be the title of this thread. I would rather know the answer to my basic questions, than lots of the very technical stuff that I've seen addressed in this thread....

 

[geevee]

I was in no way way suggesting that this "missing link" absolves Arias of premeditation. I simply want to understand what really happened, out of healthy curiosity. The state's version of the events simply doesn't fill in those gaps. Hence, that is an "unresolved question", which happens to be the title of this thread. I would rather know the answer to my basic questions, than lots of the very technical stuff that I've seen addressed in this thread....

I understand where you're coming from, I think a lot of that information wasn't allowed into the trial, it wasn't until late that were heard about the diary entry that she kicked in doors and punched holes in walls, etc., showing her 'mad dog' side. It may be part of her mental illness, calm and collected one minute, a seething whirlwind the next. Maybe once the trial is completely over and everything is unsealed we'll get the full picture of this individual who can behave like two separate beings.

 

[janx]

My god does she ever ramble on and on and on aimlessly. She is trying to sound intelligent and wrongfully assumes she is.

Anyway, this is what she actually says in that lengthy email:
Travis, need to let you know that
I hate Deanna, Chris, Sky, and your other friends.
I'm hurt because you didn't give me credit for correcting your grammar.
I can tell you don't want me to be your girlfriend.
But don't worry about pleasing me because I can still stalk you 1000 miles away.
Jodi.

This is an object to be studied, no doubt. "Hon," "love," and the manipulation in this email...wow.

Translation: We're friends, but I'm still going to harp on our (brief) relationship even though I know you want nothing to do with me.

If I recall correctly, Travis didn't know what to do with this email--didn't understand it and didn't like it. Who could blame him? This email is as if to say "I still love you and we have a bond that will never go away and even if we're supposed to be friends that doesn't change anything."

It is, as someone thoughtfully noticed above, a cry for attention. We've all had these moments in our youth, moments when we feel the pain of separation, but honestly, this seems extreme. It doesn't even make sense; it's some outpouring from a woman who thinks she is writing logically but who is most definitely not.

She is crying out, and she is pissed off, like a 16-year-old--except that she was 27 when she wrote it. she seems to have no respect for the other people on Travis' life, and it's unclear whether this is cause or effect. If she were healthy and reasonable, wouldn't she have a decent respect for other people who were his friends/colleagues?

She has no sense of self, of who she is, and so she has no basis upon which to respect other people. And that leads me to this:
This woman seems to have been raised with no expectations of how she was going to support herself and respect herself. I'm not perfect either in that regard, and none of us is, but this is extreme. What, she's just supposed to be a waitress until she finds a man to support her? She's supposed to wear loads of makeup and take selfie pictures and photoshop them and post them online? A boob job because she isn't happy with her body?

I wonder if this situation is a case of borderline personality disorder plus popular culture.

 

[pocketaccent]

This is an object to be studied, no doubt. "Hon," "love," and the manipulation in this email...wow.

Translation: We're friends, but I'm still going to harp on our (brief) relationship even though I know you want nothing to do with me.

If I recall correctly, Travis didn't know what to do with this email--didn't understand it and didn't like it. Who could blame him? This email is as if to say "I still love you and we have a bond that will never go away and even if we're supposed to be friends that doesn't change anything."

It is, as someone thoughtfully noticed above, a cry for attention. We've all had these moments in our youth, moments when we feel the pain of separation, but honestly, this seems extreme. It doesn't even make sense; it's some outpouring from a woman who thinks she is writing logically but who is most definitely not.

She is crying out, and she is pissed off, like a 16-year-old--except that she was 27 when she wrote it. she seems to have no respect for the other people on Travis' life, and it's unclear whether this is cause or effect. If she were healthy and reasonable, wouldn't she have a decent respect for other people who were his friends/colleagues?

She has no sense of self, of who she is, and so she has no basis upon which to respect other people. And that leads me to this:
This woman seems to have been raised with no expectations of how she was going to support herself and respect herself. I'm not perfect either in that regard, and none of us is, but this is extreme. What, she's just supposed to be a waitress until she finds a man to support her? She's supposed to wear loads of makeup and take selfie pictures and photoshop them and post them online? A boob job because she isn't happy with her body?

I wonder if this situation is a case of borderline personality disorder plus popular culture.

Hmm you sound like Dr. Demarte describing her borderline personality disorder.
Nurmi and Jodi spent a long time on this weird email too. "AAAnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, what did you mean by that Jodi, Cooouuld you explain to us?"
Then she kindly interpreted for us while licking her lips and all. "I meant I value his friendship but his friend didn't like me, but I wanted Travis to know I am his friend, even though he didn't really want me to be close to him, but I really cared for him so I wanted to let him know i will always care for him although he could care less what I say, but he would sometimes see me as a secret friend, so I at least needed to let him know what I really meant by that sentence because I am a friend and that is what I wanted to say ......"
This woman is definitely wired differently from most of us.

 

[wasnt_me]

I was in no way way suggesting that this "missing link" absolves Arias of premeditation. I simply want to understand what really happened, out of healthy curiosity. The state's version of the events simply doesn't fill in those gaps. Hence, that is an "unresolved question", which happens to be the title of this thread. I would rather know the answer to my basic questions, than lots of the very technical stuff that I've seen addressed in this thread....

Thanks for clarifying. I was thinking you wanted to know specifically about the two Jodies, and for that answer, I was going to say about 90% of the same thing as Janx did above. The only difference with me is I was going to add that her rational side, "Jodi one" cannot control her insolent child side, "Jodi two." Jodi two is all the things Janx said, and Jodi One cannot stop Jodi Two from ruling. I believe Jodi One wants to commit suicide because she can't control or inner self or tell it what to do.

As for what really happened, we're all in that boat with you. I see it differently than you do. I don't see her as calm and cool or as having directed things down the the throat-slitting. The one thing I learned from Jodi about herself is that she jumps in feet-first before even seeing what she's jumping into.

She approached her various moves that way, running away from home to live with Bobby that way, dumping Darryl the way she did, moving to AZ without a sure place to stay or job, etc. So while she premeditated adequately for an alibi, I'm not sure she had a well-formulated murder plan.

For example, I don't believe she intended to spend 13-14 hours in Travis' house. She had planned her trip so well, that it would be short-sighted of her to let Ryan Burns expect her 24 hours before she thought she should be there. I believed she thought the roommates would be gone and she could handle her plan with Travis in a few short hours--if even that long--before hopping on the road and making to Utah only a few hours late.

The roommate being home caused her to have to improvise, which had to have caused her loads of anxiety. I believe that's what made the killing happen later than intended and perhaps in a way that was also unintended. Whatever Travis' defense was also changed the nature and outcome of the attack.

 

[wasnt_me]

Oh, I had come in here to ask if anyone else had noticed that the box for the Sony camera was on Travis' desk downstairs?

I don't know if that's significant, but I noticed it on his desk in crime scene pictures. It leads me to believe that somebody had to go down to the office to get the camera. Then you have the camera case by the beanbag chair upstairs outside his room.

 

[geevee]

Oh, I had come in here to ask if anyone else had noticed that the box for the Sony camera was on Travis' desk downstairs?

I don't know if that's significant, but I noticed it on his desk in crime scene pictures. It leads me to believe that somebody had to go down to the office to get the camera. Then you have the camera case by the beanbag chair upstairs outside his room.

I have been wanting (and forgetting) to ask about that too, I haven't come to any conclusions about it except the same as yours, the box was open like the camera/case had been in it and the case brought upstairs that day. But what's weird is the 90-odd undeleted pics that were on the camera.

Do you recall the testimony about those pics? Didn't Melendez say the camera itself was too badly damaged to work with and the 90-odd pics were also on the memory stick (but not deleted)?

Was Travis so fastidious that even after using the camera he'd not only put it back in the case but put the case back into the box?

 

[LambChop]

I have been wanting (and forgetting) to ask about that too, I haven't come to any conclusions about it except the same as yours, the box was open like the camera/case had been in it and the case brought upstairs that day. But what's weird is the 90-odd undeleted pics that were on the camera.

Do you recall the testimony about those pics? Didn't Melendez say the camera itself was too badly damaged to work with and the 90-odd pics were also on the memory stick (but not deleted)?

Was Travis so fastidious that even after using the camera he'd not only put it back in the case but put the case back into the box?

The instructions may have been in the box and it appears the camera was in the bag. Remember Jodi was the one who took the first picture of Travis that day. jmo

 

[geevee]

The instructions may have been in the box and it appears the camera was in the bag. Remember Jodi was the one who took the first picture of Travis that day. jmo

If either of them referred to the instructions, wouldn't you think they'd be out somewhere, on the desk or upstairs in the bedroom? She said they couldn't figure out how to do a video on it, the instruction booklet would be the first place to look for answers but I haven't seen it in any of the pics. I'm glad we're talking about it though, I kept forgetting to mention the box on the desk.

 

[ElleElle]

For me, the biggest "unresolved question" is, what is the missing link between the two Jodis?

On the one hand, we have the "cool black widow" Jodi, planning the murder from May 28 and carrying out all those steps. Then she coolly spends 12 hours with him, sleeping and having sex. Then she is coolly taking photos in the shower, presumably waiting for the right moment.

And then out of nowhere we have the "ferocious pit bull" Jodi, attacking him with a knife. Doing it that way carried considerable risk for her, yet she was in a state of such frenzy that the risk didn't matter. And she was in a state of such frenzy that a bigger stronger male essentially had no chance. Think about that. And then the 'coup de gras'. I haven't seen this mentioned, but IMO it's quite likely that she didn't just slash his throat, but was actually trying to decapitate him, and only stopped because she met the resistance of the spine. Maybe she had looked at a couple of those Islamic beheading videos on the internet.

So, what is the missing link between the cool plotter Jodi and the rabid mad dog Jodi? Why didn't cool Jodi just poison his drink, or shoot him as he slept? Why and how did mad dog Jodi suddenly spring into existence?

These are the real unresolved questions to me. I pretty much know what the responses are likely to be, but I haven't found any of those explanations to be satisfactory. I can't figure out the missing link between the two Jodis, assuming they both existed, and assuming that all her story was just lies...

IMO, Jodi has traits of a serial killer and she would have killed again. Therefore, she can never, ever leave :jail: alive.

 

[ElleElle]

Thanks for clarifying. I was thinking you wanted to know specifically about the two Jodies, and for that answer, I was going to say about 90% of the same thing as Janx did above. The only difference with me is I was going to add that her rational side, "Jodi one" cannot control her insolent child side, "Jodi two." Jodi two is all the things Janx said, and Jodi One cannot stop Jodi Two from ruling. I believe Jodi One wants to commit suicide because she can't control or inner self or tell it what to do.

As for what really happened, we're all in that boat with you. I see it differently than you do. I don't see her as calm and cool or as having directed things down the the throat-slitting. The one thing I learned from Jodi about herself is that she jumps in feet-first before even seeing what she's jumping into.

She approached her various moves that way, running away from home to live with Bobby that way, dumping Darryl the way she did, moving to AZ without a sure place to stay or job, etc. So while she premeditated adequately for an alibi, I'm not sure she had a well-formulated murder plan.

For example, I don't believe she intended to spend 13-14 hours in Travis' house. She had planned her trip so well, that it would be short-sighted of her to let Ryan Burns expect her 24 hours before she thought she should be there. I believed she thought the roommates would be gone and she could handle her plan with Travis in a few short hours--if even that long--before hopping on the road and making to Utah only a few hours late.

The roommate being home caused her to have to improvise, which had to have caused her loads of anxiety. I believe that's what made the killing happen later than intended and perhaps in a way that was also unintended. Whatever Travis' defense was also changed the nature and outcome of the attack.

BBM ~ I believe she was giving Travis one last chance for him to be hers forever.

Of course he did not take her back and he either kicked her out or she bragged about going to see Ryan Burns, but then snuck back in while he was showering.

 

[ElleElle]

I have been wanting (and forgetting) to ask about that too, I haven't come to any conclusions about it except the same as yours, the box was open like the camera/case had been in it and the case brought upstairs that day. But what's weird is the 90-odd undeleted pics that were on the camera.

Do you recall the testimony about those pics? Didn't Melendez say the camera itself was too badly damaged to work with and the 90-odd pics were also on the memory stick (but not deleted)?

Was Travis so fastidious that even after using the camera he'd not only put it back in the case but put the case back into the box?

BBM ~ Yes, I believe he cherished his new camera and still kept it packed in the box when not in use.