PR/JR wrote the RN to explain their dead daughter in basement

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PR/JR wrote the RN to explain their dead daughter in basement


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You're saying that you could read a letter that states right off the bat that your BABY has been kidnapped, and yet, you would have the mental competency to continue reading the rest of the first page, the entire second page and then, the entire third page before acting???? Really??

Not me. There is no way that I could continue reading such a long note.....once I read that my daughter was kidnapped, I already know that I would be freaking out and would IMMEDIATELY stop reading the note so that I could: 1. Call the police 2. Wake up my spouse 3. Search franctically around the house for my daughter. (Not necessarily in that precise order, but you get my drift).

In order to read the entire note, IMO, it would take a certain amount of collectiveness about oneself. It would take a certain amount of calmness, i.e., in order to read the rest of the note, I would have to have a certain amount of wits about me. Once I read that my daughter is kidnapped, all bets are off and there are NO wits about me. Once I read that horrifying information, that is all I would need to know to put the papers down and get LE on the scene ASAP. I just know how I would react.

There is NOOOOO way that I, a mother, could read that my daughter was kidnapped on page one, and then simply continue on to read page two, and then page three, before I made a move. No way, no how.

Imagine...you find a note in the wee early morning hours that says your child has been kidnapped....do you seriously go on to read page two and page three??? OR, do you IMMEDIATELY go see if your daughter is in her bed as soon as you read the words that she has been kidnapped???? Most parents, I believe, would IMMEDIATELY put down the letter upon reading that their kid was kidnapped and look for their child....and the very millisecond that they couldn't find their child, they would be on the phone with 911. Right away. Immediately. Forget about The Rest Of The Story in the Ransom Note. I read a note that says my child is gone....boom, I am looking for my child. Can't find her? Pure and sheer panic as I call 911...INSTEAD of choosing to read the rest of this ridiculous manifesto. My thoughts: Get LE on scene NOW.


ETA: Patsy did the same.

well, exactly.

And hence, we can't draw any conclusions from the choices PR made (calling LE and friends & clergy) to the RDI theory that PR wrote it to explain their dead daughter on the grounds she breached the warnings on the RN -- contacting LE would result in the immediate execution of her daughter.

While I am unaware of any survey research on the matter, I bet that if you were to survey a large sample of parents (esp those who have never heard of JB to be as unbiased as possible) and ask them what they would do in a hypothetical kidnapping (what would be better would be to do scientifically speaking would be do an actual kidnapping since what people say and what people do differ) and an RN that threatens to not contact LE would agree with Elevan & PR decisions.

The choices PR made that morning do not provide any evidence for RDIST that she wrote the RN. They are entirely consistent with her innocence, and the fact she contacted friends and clergy, and stated she did not read the entire RN, is more consistent with innocence than some convoluted over-thinking RDIST theory she intended to "breach" the warning of the RN to explain a daughter that was dead all along (not really an explanation that would fool anyone).

Use that good Southern Sense of yours. If PR or JR attempted at any time to explain that the reason JB was dead was that they read the RN very carefully but breached its warning not to contact LE, so the kidnapper murdered JB, then that would be evidence to support such a theory.

Is there any RDI who finds Elevan's choices unreasonable, or indicative of guilt or suspicion? (Worth a poll IMHO)
 
I'd panic. I'd call 911. But I'd read the entire note.
 
I'd panic. I'd call 911. But I'd read the entire note.


And I would be willing to bet that ther are MANY parents who would ALSO "panic", and as a result of their panic, could not read the rest of the note.

I imagine if Patsy DID say she read the entire note, that people would use that against her, and say that there is no way that a parent could continue on to read page 2 and page 3 after reading on page 1 that their baby girl was kidnapped.

As voynich says, we can't use the fact that she stated she didn't read the entire note against her and make it indicative of her guilt. We are both parents (I think?), and I will assume that neither of us has had our child killed in our own home....yet, we both arrive at different answers as to how we would react, no? Initially, anyway---as far as taking the time to read or not read the entire note
 
And I would be willing to bet that ther are MANY parents who would ALSO "panic", and as a result of their panic, could not read the rest of the note.

I imagine if Patsy DID say she read the entire note, that people would use that against her, and say that there is no way that a parent could continue on to read page 2 and page 3 after reading on page 1 that their baby girl was kidnapped.


As voynich says, we can't use the fact that she stated she didn't read the entire note against her and make it indicative of her guilt. We are both parents (I think?), and I will assume that neither of us has had our child killed in our own home....yet, we both arrive at different answers as to how we would react, no? Initially, anyway---as far as taking the time to read or not read the entire note

Well, Exactly, that is exactly what I was thinking when I posted

And if Patsy didn't call LE or didn't call her friends or clergy or social support network, the RDIST would use that against her.

I don't have anything more to add then what Eleven said. If Eleven doesn't persuade you nothing I could add would.

And I'm not even a mother.
 
Great minds think alike, voynich.

As a side note, I do think that the answer, the truth, is forthcoming and it could be this year. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I really do feel more of a vibe, more of a silent "furvor" if you will, about ths case than I ever have in all the years I've followed it.
 
Well, Exactly, that is exactly what I was thinking when I posted

And if Patsy didn't call LE or didn't call her friends or clergy or social support network, the RDIST would use that against her.

I don't have anything more to add then what Eleven said. If Eleven doesn't persuade you nothing I could add would.

And I'm not even a mother.

Panic or not, I'd call 911 because I would sooner believe there was a *advertiser censored* involved than a foreign faction rep. IOW, someone that LE could easily apprehend. I wouldn't be able to take the chance that it wasn't just a simple apprehension of someone in the neighborhood. Every minute counts as a mile. Amber alert and all that.
 
Dunno if and when I'd call LE,but I definitely wouldn't call my friends over.I guess words like executed and beheaded would make me think twice before dialing 911.And if I'd be in JR's position I guess I knew who to call first and it wouldn't be the cops.And calling the rev over was a bit too much,part of the drama though.
 
You're saying that you could read a letter that states right off the bat that your BABY has been kidnapped, and yet, you would have the mental competency to continue reading the rest of the first page, the entire second page and then, the entire third page before acting???? Really??

Not me. There is no way that I could continue reading such a long note.....once I read that my daughter was kidnapped, I already know that I would be freaking out and would IMMEDIATELY stop reading the note so that I could: 1. Call the police 2. Wake up my spouse 3. Search franctically around the house for my daughter. (Not necessarily in that precise order, but you get my drift).

In order to read the entire note, IMO, it would take a certain amount of collectiveness about oneself. It would take a certain amount of calmness, i.e., in order to read the rest of the note, I would have to have a certain amount of wits about me. Once I read that my daughter is kidnapped, all bets are off and there are NO wits about me. Once I read that horrifying information, that is all I would need to know to put the papers down and get LE on the scene ASAP. I just know how I would react.

There is NOOOOO way that I, a mother, could read that my daughter was kidnapped on page one, and then simply continue on to read page two, and then page three, before I made a move. No way, no how.

Imagine...you find a note in the wee early morning hours that says your child has been kidnapped....do you seriously go on to read page two and page three??? OR, do you IMMEDIATELY go see if your daughter is in her bed as soon as you read the words that she has been kidnapped???? Most parents, I believe, would IMMEDIATELY put down the letter upon reading that their kid was kidnapped and look for their child....and the very millisecond that they couldn't find their child, they would be on the phone with 911. Right away. Immediately. Forget about The Rest Of The Story in the Ransom Note. I read a note that says my child is gone....boom, I am looking for my child. Can't find her? Pure and sheer panic as I call 911...INSTEAD of choosing to read the rest of this ridiculous manifesto. My thoughts: Get LE on scene NOW.


ETA: Patsy did the same.

Well that is strange the PR could tell 911 that it said Victory and S.B.T.C but yet she didn't read the RN didn't get pass we have your daughter...But knew the ending....As a mother myself it would take more than a second to wonder to call the cops cause everyone can almost expect in the note don't call the cops....
 
You're saying that you could read a letter that states right off the bat that your BABY has been kidnapped, and yet, you would have the mental competency to continue reading the rest of the first page, the entire second page and then, the entire third page before acting???? Really??

Not me. There is no way that I could continue reading such a long note.....once I read that my daughter was kidnapped, I already know that I would be freaking out and would IMMEDIATELY stop reading the note so that I could: 1. Call the police 2. Wake up my spouse 3. Search franctically around the house for my daughter. (Not necessarily in that precise order, but you get my drift).

In order to read the entire note, IMO, it would take a certain amount of collectiveness about oneself. It would take a certain amount of calmness, i.e., in order to read the rest of the note, I would have to have a certain amount of wits about me. Once I read that my daughter is kidnapped, all bets are off and there are NO wits about me. Once I read that horrifying information, that is all I would need to know to put the papers down and get LE on the scene ASAP. I just know how I would react.

There is NOOOOO way that I, a mother, could read that my daughter was kidnapped on page one, and then simply continue on to read page two, and then page three, before I made a move. No way, no how.

Imagine...you find a note in the wee early morning hours that says your child has been kidnapped....do you seriously go on to read page two and page three??? OR, do you IMMEDIATELY go see if your daughter is in her bed as soon as you read the words that she has been kidnapped???? Most parents, I believe, would IMMEDIATELY put down the letter upon reading that their kid was kidnapped and look for their child....and the very millisecond that they couldn't find their child, they would be on the phone with 911. Right away. Immediately. Forget about The Rest Of The Story in the Ransom Note. I read a note that says my child is gone....boom, I am looking for my child. Can't find her? Pure and sheer panic as I call 911...INSTEAD of choosing to read the rest of this ridiculous manifesto. My thoughts: Get LE on scene NOW.


ETA: Patsy did the same.

@bold

I agree and I guess most of the parents would immediately check if the other kid is SAFE and especially if the other kid heard/knows something.

The Ramsey's DIDN'T.How did it happen,they opened the door,ah Burke seems to be sleeping,no problem,let's move on...
WHY is that??
 
Maybe I would be too freaked out to read every word of such a long letter,I agree,you wouldn't have the patience for it under those circumstances.But words like executed and beheaded would instantly make me stop and analyse the situation for one second.
I understand that PR as a woman and mother would be too scared/panicked/freaked out to stop for a second and think about what's best to do.But JR?Nah.I think JR would know EXACTLY what to do,who to call,who NOT to call.

moo
 
I'd like to know why delivery was crossed out and replaced with pick-up.Any thoughts?
 
Great minds think alike, voynich.

As a side note, I do think that the answer, the truth, is forthcoming and it could be this year. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I really do feel more of a vibe, more of a silent "furvor" if you will, about ths case than I ever have in all the years I've followed it.

We Jedi call it A tremor in the Force.

Have you had a chance to d/l and read
Gerald R McMenamin - Forensic Linguistics Advances In Forensic Stylistics .pdf

http://rapidlibrary.com/download_fi...guistics+Advances+In+Forensic+Stylistics+.pdf
 
DO you even know she actually read the entire RN carefully?

From what I understand, that's quite a story. She said that she hadn't read the entire rn when she made the call, but she knew how it ended. Also, we have JR's famous story of how JR got down on his hands and knees to read it while she was doing this and never said a thing to her.

It's not like there is a universal manual given to parents on what to do in a kidnapping.

Never said there was.

PR could be genuinely innocent, (supported by McM's forensic linguistic analysis)

Sure, she could. (And I have no problem with "supported by." That's a good way to phrase it.)

but b/c of the stress and shock of learning her precious JB was kidnapped and found an RN, both felt she needed to call her friends, and could not think clearly. PR sees JB missing, sees a RN, calls 911, then calls her social support network. Nothing particularly suspicious to me.

Plausible. But there are a few other things besides just calling them. That whole eyeballing-the-cop bit comes to mind.

We could not do a survey here but I bet that if we were to poll parents on what they would do if their child is kidnapped, and there is an RN not to call the police, that most parents would do so, and their friends.

That's an interesting idea. I've often asked the mothers here what they would do under certain circumstances.

Let's say we perform a Gallup poll, or some survey research w/questions and methodology acceptable to the RDI,

I'm game.

(tall order since apparently McM's linguistic analysis and DNA and unsourced fiber aren't science enough)

It's NOT as simple as you make it out to be. Don't get things confused.

and that 90% of parents would have contacted friends as PR did, after receiving an RN that warned not to. Such survey research would discredit a reading of PR's response as indicative of guilt.

Not necessarily. I think you've got the wrong idea. I think most of us can understand making those calls, even if we don't agree with it. Problem is, the Rs aren't the only people who have lost children to violence. Marc Klaas, the Van Dams, Erin Runnion, etc., and the difference between those people and the Rs is the difference between night and day, which Klaas himself has pointed out.

Is there any evidence that PR or the R"s specifically instructed their friends to impede the LE investigators?

No, I'd have to say there isn't. But then, there's a difference between knights and pawns. Leaving that aside momentarily, there was an incident where Susan Stine sent out a bunch of e-mails pretending to be Chief Beckner. Caused a big scandal.
 
The choices PR made that morning do not provide any evidence for RDI that she wrote the RN.

Not by themselves...

They are entirely consistent with her innocence, and the fact she contacted friends and clergy, and stated she did not read the entire RN, is more consistent with innocence than some convoluted over-thinking RDIST theory she intended to "breach" the warning of the RN to explain a daughter that was dead all along (not really an explanation that would fool anyone).

I think my friend Blackadder says it best: "obviously it's not very clever. But I'm sure they thought it was very clever at the time."

Is there any RDI who finds Elevan's choices unreasonable, or indicative of guilt or suspicion? (Worth a poll IMHO)

Personally, it sounds perfectly reasonable. The problem here is that we've seen child kidnappings, yet the parents did not do these things. (Indeed, there were quite a few hardcore IDI who felt that the Van Dams were guilty because of that.)
 
btw SD how long have you been at WS, do you visit other JB forums?

Am i the first to out you?

I've been here a little over 3 years.

Yes, I visit other forums often. I was a member eslewhere before I came here.

I take it you mean "outing" me as a Sith Lord? You are in fact the first.
 
I've been here a little over 3 years.

Yes, I visit other forums often. I was a member eslewhere before I came here.

I take it you mean "outing" me as a Sith Lord? You are in fact the first.

I believe we have been part of a plot hundreds of days in the making.

BTW are there any SW forums you participate? I participate over at Jan Duursema and Dark Horse forums

Of your years of debating, who is the Grand Master of the IDI in your opinion?
 
I believe we have been part of a plot hundreds of days in the making.

BTW are there any SW forums you participate? I participate over at Jan Duursema and Dark Horse forums

Sorry, I'm sort of a one-forum guy!

Of your years of debating, who is the Grand Master of the IDI in your opinion?

Wow, that's a tough one. Never gave it much thought.
 

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