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Americka said:
Dr. Michael Richenbach, who testified today, is a forensic chemical examiner for the FBI. He has a B.S., M.S., and PhD in chemistry.
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Sorry I was being silly, but thanks for answering :)
 
Hali said:
While reading some of Casey's jail letters, two things were mentioned that intrigued me:
1) Seizures she said she was having. Did she have a history of seizures?
2) In one letter to an inmate (Robyn), Casey said she was going to start calling her "Lily;" that she didn't know why, but that name had just come to her. That statement seems to validate the speculation that Casey has mental issues. Could her "imaginary" friends also actually be real people she gave "pretend" names to?
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Alleged Seizures

There was NEVER any confirmation that ICA had seizures (plural). The ONLY thing reported re: seizures was that JG witnessed ICA having what he thought was a seizure and called 911; she was admitted to hospital after 2 days and hospital did not find anything to indicate she had a seizure / seizure disorder. Additionally, according to GA and CA they didn't believe this happened and ICA had never had any type of seizures in their presence. This was discussed in detail here on WS in several threads. You might start with these 2.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69163"]Casey's seizure? REVISIT - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2978564#post2978564"]New Video Interviews released from SA's office 11/21 - Page 49 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


"Lily":waitasec:

The "mental issues" speculation was thwarted when the DT's own mental health experts did not diagnose the ICA with any recognized clinical or personality disorders.


http://www.cfnews13.com/static/articles/images/documents/casey-mental-health-0412.pdf

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138627"]Why would the DT not use a mental defense? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
cluciano63 said:
Can someone direct me to where the proof that the duct tape was applied while Caylee was alive can be found? I keep reading that this is the case, but cannot find any actual evidence of that. Thanks.
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You won't find that evidence anywhere.

Although the duct tape could have been applied while Caylee was alive, I think that this information comes from subjective speculation. The medical examination report does not state that the tape was applied while still alive.

It does state two things...

CAUSE OF DEATH: Homicide by undetermined means...

The duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition, keeping the mandible in place.

So they aren't (can't) saying the duct tape caused the death. But they can say the tape was applied before decomposition. The reason they can say that is because the tape was holding the mandible (jaw) in a natural position relative to the skull. When decomposition reaches a stage where the jaw muscles and tendons lose their binding integrity the jaw will separate from the skull (drop away). If the tape were applied after that stage the jaw would be in an unnatural position. The tape was put on before this stage of decomposition.
 
Hot Dogs said:
You won't find that evidence anywhere.

Although the duct tape could have been applied while Caylee was alive, I think that this information comes from subjective speculation. The medical examination report does not state that the tape was applied while still alive.

It does state two things...

CAUSE OF DEATH: Homicide by undetermined means...

The duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition, keeping the mandible in place.

So they aren't (can't) saying the duct tape caused the death. But they can say the tape was applied before decomposition. The reason they can say that is because the tape was holding the mandible (jaw) in a natural position relative to the skull. When decomposition reaches a stage where the jaw muscles and tendons lose their binding integrity the jaw will separate from the skull (drop away). If the tape were applied after that stage the jaw would be in an unnatural position. The tape was put on before this stage of decomposition.
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I will be very curious to hear an expert tell us the time frame for this:

"When decomposition reaches a stage where the jaw muscles and tendons lose their binding integrity the jaw will separate from the skull (drop away)."

Does anyone know if it is hours or days?
 
katydid23 said:
I will be very curious to hear an expert tell us the time frame for this:

"When decomposition reaches a stage where the jaw muscles and tendons lose their binding integrity the jaw will separate from the skull (drop away)."

Does anyone know if it is hours or days?
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The examination of Dr. Jan Garavaglia should be pretty interesting considering that the defense theory is that George placed the duct tape after Caylee drowned. Baez may force her to say that she can only say the tape was applied before decomposition without any specificity of whether Caylee was still alive or not.

There is a stage of death called rigor mortis when the muscles stiffen and contract. In humans it commences after about 3 hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 72 hours (3 days) after death. I would expect that rigor mortis would hold the jaw in a natural closed position, but I'm not sure. Sorry to be morbid, but there are plenty of photos of dead bodies where the jaw appears to be closed and in a natural position.
 
Okay so Casey could have applied the tape after killing Caylee either accidently or otherwise, in some other fashion and deciding upon the kidnapping tale within the next several hours. I would think she probably did so even sooner.
 
Right after death, the body's muscles are completely flaccid. The jaw opens/goes slack with the direction of gravity. This is VERY noticeable because even in sleep, there is some muscular tension in the jaw.

When I do post mortem care on a deceased patient, I have to close the jaw and secure it with a rolled towel (they actually have "straps" for this) or two, because we don't want rigor mortis to set in with the jaw wide open. You close and support the jaw so that rigor mortis works to keep the jaw closed. The person then appears to be asleep, and it is easier on the family coming to say last goodbyes. A deceased person with their mouth shut either had it closed on purpose or they died in such a position that gravity pulled the jaw closed.

It would have been impossible to close Caylee's mouth unless the tape was applied immediately after death or a few days after death. I wonder if her little jaw was in anatomical alignment with the skull (closed)? I doubt with the time and environmental exposure this would be evident :(
 
cluciano63 said:
Okay so Casey could have applied the tape after killing Caylee either accidently or otherwise, in some other fashion and deciding upon the kidnapping tale within the next several hours. I would think she probably did so even sooner.
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I have to hope that the jury takes the time to imagine just how that whole thing went down. Accident or not, an hour later or 2 days later, no matter what, she had to cut off the 4 strips of tape and wrap them around that precious little face. Who could do that?
 
PeteyGirl said:
Right after death, the body's muscles are completely flaccid. The jaw opens/goes slack with the direction of gravity. This is VERY noticeable because even in sleep, there is some muscular tension in the jaw.

When I do post mortem care on a deceased patient, I have to close the jaw and secure it with a rolled towel (they actually have "straps" for this) or two, because we don't want rigor mortis to set in with the jaw wide open. You close and support the jaw so that rigor mortis works to keep the jaw closed. The person then appears to be asleep, and it is easier on the family coming to say last goodbyes. A deceased person with their mouth shut either had it closed on purpose or they died in such a position that gravity pulled the jaw closed.

It would have been impossible to close Caylee's mouth unless the tape was applied immediately after death or a few days after death. I wonder if her little jaw was in anatomical alignment with the skull (closed)? I doubt with the time and environmental exposure this would be evident :(
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Unless it was done BEFORE she died.

Thank you for that informative post. It is hard to think about but I do think this particular issue is going to be very important in jury deliberations.
 
PeteyGirl said:
Right after death, the body's muscles are completely flaccid. The jaw opens/goes slack with the direction of gravity. This is VERY noticeable because even in sleep, there is some muscular tension in the jaw.

When I do post mortem care on a deceased patient, I have to close the jaw and secure it with a rolled towel (they actually have "straps" for this) or two, because we don't want rigor mortis to set in with the jaw wide open. You close and support the jaw so that rigor mortis works to keep the jaw closed. The person then appears to be asleep, and it is easier on the family coming to say last goodbyes. A deceased person with their mouth shut either had it closed on purpose or they died in such a position that gravity pulled the jaw closed.

It would have been impossible to close Caylee's mouth unless the tape was applied immediately after death or a few days after death. I wonder if her little jaw was in anatomical alignment with the skull (closed)? I doubt with the time and environmental exposure this would be evident :(
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My dad died coming up on 2 years ago. I was with him when he died. What you said about the jaw is exactly right.
 
What time did George leave the house on the 16th?
 
What do you think will be the “Perry Mason Moment” during the trial when a certain piece of evidence or testimony makes ICA jump out of her chair and say “I did it! Stop the madness, I did it!”?


If this is the wrong place to ask this question, please move to appropriate thread and thanks!
 
Newbie here!

I've been following mostly the live trial threads, but I think I stumbled on an older one a few days ago in which someone referenced 3 witnesses to ICA being in or around the woods where Caylee was found.

Yesterday someone mentioned that it was a shame that there were NO witnesses to this.

So, do we have witnesses to this or no?

Thank you!
 
katydid23 said:
I have to hope that the jury takes the time to imagine just how that whole thing went down. Accident or not, an hour later or 2 days later, no matter what, she had to cut off the 4 strips of tape and wrap them around that precious little face. Who could do that?
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone on the jury or elsewhere is thinking that Casey was anything like a normal mother, or even a normal person. I don't think she felt any great love for Caylee, and only loved the reflected admiration she got from Caylee, i.e. as being seen as a "good mother". I think that Casey in private with Caylee was a very different person than in public. And I can easily see her taping up Caylee's face and head after Caylee's death or murder, if it might serve her purposes to do so.
 
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