Questions you'd like answers to...

[Disgusted]

Disgusted,
1. Yes, even if they don't familial dna would connect him.

2. No results published.

3. No results published.

if you know 3. then 2. might follow?

Its likely the answer to 2. and 3. is Patsy? BR's touch dna is on JonBenet's pink barbie nightgown, so by extension, its likely to be on some other JonBenet clothing. More relevant is was BR's touch dna found on JonBenet's body?

If the case is BDI then this will be why you might never see any dna evidence connecting BR to JonBenet directly.

Apparently they are retesting the dna so who knows what they will turn up?

.

Why do you think they won't release info about who's DNA was on the ligature and paintbrush? They happily talk about DNA found on long johns and underwear. As you pointed out, they even disclose that Burke's DNA is on the nightgown. Can someone walk me through how/when they disclosed those tidbits? Why only those tidbits?

I realize they could use familial DNA to determine Burke or at least a child of the 2 parents, but I'm particularly interested in whether or not they ever successfully collected a DNA sample from Burke.

Has Kolar or anyone commented at all regarding DNA on the "garrotte"?

Thanks for the info.

 

[David Rogers]

Here's some questions I have:

1) Does law enforcement have a sample of Burke's DNA?
2) Who's DNA was found on the ligature and paint brush handle?
3) Were the insides of the ligature knots tested for touch DNA?

Does anyone know if John and Patsy are the real parents of the kids?


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[UKGuy]

Why do you think they won't release info about who's DNA was on the ligature and paintbrush? They happily talk about DNA found on long johns and underwear. As you pointed out, they even disclose that Burke's DNA is on the nightgown. Can someone walk me through how/when they disclosed those tidbits? Why only those tidbits?

I realize they could use familial DNA to determine Burke or at least a child of the 2 parents, but I'm particularly interested in whether or not they ever successfully collected a DNA sample from Burke.

Has Kolar or anyone commented at all regarding DNA on the "garrotte"?

Thanks for the info.

Disgusted,
BBM: well its all about politics, consider Lacy apologizing to the R's and saying they are no longer suspects, based on the dna results.

Yet we now know that the dna results were an amalgam of stranger touch dna. so Lacy's conclusion was invalid.

This should offer an explanation why you have never been told if there was any Ramsey touch dna on JonBenet or her clothing, just that of the fictional dna person.

Bearing this in mind if the case is BDI, Colorado child statutes will prevent BR being linked via touch dna and that being made public.

Early in the case JonBenet's clothing was sent for dna and blood tests, and one of those results was that BR's touch dna was on the nightgown.

BR's touch dna might have been deposited elsewhere on JonBenet's body or clothing, if so, this information has not been released, including if it is absent!

Presumably they took a sample of Burke's dna, e.g. saliva, hair follicle, etc, since they matched him to the forensic sample on the nightgown?

These new tests they are going to do might yield interesting results, especially when comparing the samples from the long johns and those of her underwear and any other of her clothing?

Has Kolar or anyone commented at all regarding DNA on the "garrotte"?

Henry Lee, Rice Cooked, recommended testing of the crime-scene artifacts at the Henry C. Lee Institute of Forensic Science on the CBS JonBenet Special.

.
.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Why do you think they won't release info about who's DNA was on the ligature and paintbrush? They happily talk about DNA found on long johns and underwear. As you pointed out, they even disclose that Burke's DNA is on the nightgown. Can someone walk me through how/when they disclosed those tidbits? Why only those tidbits?

I realize they could use familial DNA to determine Burke or at least a child of the 2 parents, but I'm particularly interested in whether or not they ever successfully collected a DNA sample from Burke.

Has Kolar or anyone commented at all regarding DNA on the "garrotte"?

Thanks for the info.

The only garrote DNA Kolar mentions (found in the DNA results Mary Lacy sent for in 2008) belonged to an unknown male. On the CBS show Henry Lee suggested that the knot on the ligature should be untied and tested as it would be a good place to trap DNA, and since Kolar was also involved in that show we can assume Lee knew that hadn't already been done - the DNA must have been on an exposed part of the cord. I wonder if that's what the BPD is testing now. And they did have Burke's DNA because it was found on JB's nightgown found by her body. Edit, I see you were already aware of the nightgown DNA, but I guess still weren't sure if they had his DNA? They got DNA from all the family members on the 28th and Burke was there when it happened. Kolar describes him smiling when they took his picture that day, another odd Ramsey moment. I don't know if it's ever been explicitly stated but I'm sure they have it. They got Melinda's and she wasn't even in the house that night.
Here's the portion from Kolar's book summing up the DNA.

1.) There had been trace DNA samples collected from beneath JonBenét’s fingernails of both hands during autopsy that was identified as belonging to her.

2.) There had been trace DNA samples collected from beneath her left fingernails during autopsy that belonged to an unidentified male. 84

3.) There had been trace DNA samples collected from beneath her right fingernails during autopsy that belonged to another unidentified male, and a female. (JonBenét could not be eliminated as a possible contributor of the female DNA.)

4.) There had been trace DNA samples located in the crotch and waistband of her underwear that belonged to an unidentified male. This became known as Distal Stain 007-2.

5.) The new technology of Touch DNA identified trace samples in the waistband of the leggings that matched the unidentified male DNA (Distal Stain 007-2) in the underwear.

6.) The new technology of Touch DNA had located another sample of DNA located on the wrist bindings that belonged to a different unidentified male.

7.) The new technology of Touch DNA had located another sample of DNA located on the garrote that belonged to yet another unidentified male. By our count, we were looking at six separate and independent DNA samples that belonged to unknown individuals, comprising a group that consisted of five males and one female.

By our count, we were looking at six separate and independent DNA samples that belonged to unknown individuals, comprising a group that consisted of five males and one female. But there was more. Horita indicated that Touch DNA testing had discovered traces of genetic material on the pink Barbie nightgown found in the Wine Cellar with the body of JonBenét. This Touch DNA belonged to Patsy and Burke Ramsey.

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[Disgusted]

Disgusted,
Bearing this in mind if the case is BDI, Colorado child statutes will prevent BR being linked via touch dna and that being made public.
Early in the case JonBenet's clothing was sent for dna and blood tests, and one of those results was that BR's touch dna was on the nightgown.

BR's touch dna might have been deposited elsewhere on JonBenet's body or clothing, if so, this information has not been released, including if it is absent!
.

Which Colorado statute forbids BR from being publicly linked to a piece of evidence?

Why did that statute not apply to linking Burke to the nightgown?

 

[Ambitioned]

I've heard about the beaver hair. This is very interesting. I imagine they were something like this: http://g01.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1kY_l...ts-Beaver-rat-hair-warm-winter-snow-boots.jpg

I'm sure they did. IIRC, beaver hair is also found in paintbrushes but yes, it could be from boots too. It's important to look at lack of evidence so it's interesting the boots were never found.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Does anyone know if John and Patsy are the real parents of the kids?


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I don't think there is any available DNA evidence to confirm paternity, but have you looked at Burke? I'm not sure I've ever seen a son look more like his mother. JBR looked a lot like her too, but she had some resemblance to John as well.

 

[TTF14]

I don't think there is any available DNA evidence to confirm paternity, but have you looked at Burke? I'm not sure I've ever seen a son look more like his mother. JBR looked a lot like her too, but she had some resemblance to John as well.

I agree, both kids look very much like Patsy.

 

[UKGuy]

Which Colorado statute forbids BR from being publicly linked to a piece of evidence?

Why did that statute not apply to linking Burke to the nightgown?

Disgusted,

Which Colorado statute forbids BR from being publicly linked to a piece of evidence?

The one that relates to suspects beneath the age of criminal responsibility.

Why did that statute not apply to linking Burke to the nightgown?

Presumably he was not then considered a suspect and his name was in the public domain? Burke Ramsey was cleared by BPD police chief Mark Beckner in 1999 and subsequently by Alex Hunter in an October 12, 2000 affidavit.

.

 

[pinkie60]

Supposing the Boulder police are covering up for a high level pedophile ring? have you heard of Pizza Gate?

 

[kanzz]

Supposing the Boulder police are covering up for a high level pedophile ring? have you heard of Pizza Gate?

Seems you might be hinting of an intruder. If so, that isn't something we discuss here.

Open for Discussion/ The 3 People in the House when JonBenet Died

 

[Disgusted]

Disgusted,

The one that relates to suspects beneath the age of criminal responsibility.


Presumably he was not then considered a suspect and his name was in the public domain? Burke Ramsey was cleared by BPD police chief Mark Beckner in 1999 and subsequently by Alex Hunter in an October 12, 2000 affidavit.

.

The statute you are referring to relates to criminal culpability, and has nothing to do with disclosing facts of a case, as far as I understand it. Am I wrong on that?

Regarding Burke being cleared by Beckner and Hunter, could somebody post those documents?

 

[Annapurna]

I was watching that video (awesome find!) and I saw something that caught my eye:

Does anyone who knows more about gaming than I do recognize that gaming console? It is in JBR's room. I googled around a little and didn't see one that looked like that. It might not mean much, but I found it interesting.


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[elendast]

I just still can't get over how messy that house was.

 

[HarmonyE.]

The statute you are referring to relates to criminal culpability, and has nothing to do with disclosing facts of a case, as far as I understand it. Am I wrong on that?

You're correct. The criminal code only says children under 10 cannot be found guilty of a criminal act.

It also says this: Although a child under the age of 10 cannot be found guilty of a crime, such a child can commit a crime. Therefore, an adult can be found guilty of contributing to the delinquency of a minor where the minor is under the age of 10. People v. Miller, 830 P.2d 1092 (Colo. App. 1991).

 

[BOBON]

The boots have been talked about quite a bit and like Burke's HiTek boots, I think she simply wore them when they left the house. I believe the beaver boots were something of a fashion trend at the time in Boulder, so no doubt Patsy had them, as her friends said. But like Burke's boots, they denied ever having them.

If both Burke's HiTek boots and Patsy's beaver boots are nowhere to be found wouldn't it suggest that maybe both of them wearing them at the night off... and they might have gotten soaked with blood? Not something you can easily clean (at least the beaver hair) and so it would have made sense to get rid of them

 

[Ambitioned]

I was watching that video (awesome find!) and I saw something that caught my eye:

Does anyone who knows more about gaming than I do recognize that gaming console? It is in JBR's room. I googled around a little and didn't see one that looked like that. It might not mean much, but I found it interesting.

Good question! My first thought was the old NES from that era but it doesn't quite fit.

Elendast, I know what you mean. After I saw that video I went to go tidy up my place. :doorhide:

 

[kanzz]

If both Burke's HiTek boots and Patsy's beaver boots are nowhere to be found wouldn't it suggest that maybe both of them wearing them at the night off... and they might have gotten soaked with blood? Not something you can easily clean (at least the beaver hair) and so it would have made sense to get rid of them

BBM
Soaked with blood? There wasn't enough blood in this crime to soak even JB's clothing. Just a negligible amount. And her wounds weren't described as significant enough to cause much bleeding.

 

[UKGuy]

The statute you are referring to relates to criminal culpability, and has nothing to do with disclosing facts of a case, as far as I understand it. Am I wrong on that?

Regarding Burke being cleared by Beckner and Hunter, could somebody post those documents?

Disgusted,
Sure, this subject has been covered extensively here on websleuths.

That statute will be a qualifying factor in not naming anyone underage as the prime suspect.

Although these days, many think BR is the prime suspect, in the GJ's True Bills both parents were indicted on this charge:

COUNT VII

On or about December 25, and December 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colorado,

John Bennett Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the personbeing assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death.

neither parent was indicted on Murder in the First Degree, so neither parent is the above referenced person, whom I assume is Burke Ramsey.

i.e. the GJ did not name Burke Ramsey, which I assume had a legal basis, I might be wrong here, and it was merely PC and conspiracy factors which redacted his name?

.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

The statute you are referring to relates to criminal culpability, and has nothing to do with disclosing facts of a case, as far as I understand it. Am I wrong on that?

Regarding Burke being cleared by Beckner and Hunter, could somebody post those documents?

Re: Hunter, Lin Wood basically arranged that in 2000 when he was about to sue tabloids on Burke's behalf. It's in Kolar's book.

On October 11, 2000, Ramsey attorney Lin Wood sent a Confidential Facsimile Transmission to Bill Wise at the Boulder County District Attorney’s office. The correspondence included a 4-page attachment of an Affidavit that Wood had prepared for Alex Hunter’s consideration. The Affidavit essentially declared that the Boulder District Attorney’s office didn’t consider Burke Ramsey to be a suspect in the murder of his sister. Wood suggested in the cover letter of the fax that, “While there are no guarantees, hopefully this Affidavit will minimize or negate any further appearances by Alex or a representative of the D.A.’ s office in the Burke Ramsey litigation.”

Hunter then struck some language from Lin's document (see excerpt below) and released it.

AFFIDAVIT OF ALEXANDER M. HUNTER STATE OF COLORADO COUNTY OF BOULDER
Personally appeared before the undersigned officer duly authorized by law to administer oath, ALELXANDER M. HUNTER, who being duly sworn, deposes and says as follows:
1. My name is Alexander M. Hunter, I am over twenty-one (21) years of age and I am competent to make and give this Affidavit, and do so from personal knowledge.

2. I am an attorney duly licensed in the State of Colorado. Since January 9, 1973, I have been the elected District Attorney for the Twentieth Judicial District, County of Boulder, State of Colorado.

3. On or about December 26, 1996, JonBenét Ramsey, a six (6) year old minor child, was murdered in her home in Boulder, Colorado.

4. Since the date of her death, I have been continuously involved in the investigation of JonBenét Ramsey’s homicide.

5. As part of the investigation into the murder of JonBenét Ramsey, questions about any possible involvement by her brother, Burke Ramsey, who was nine (9) years of age at the time of his sister’s murder and who was one of the individuals present in the house at the time of her murder, were raised and investigated as part of standard investigative practices and procedures.

6. [Draft language was struck from this paragraph]

7. In May of 1999, I was made aware that tabloid newspapers had indicated that Burke Ramsey was a suspect in the murder of JonBenét Ramsey or was believed to be her killer. As a result of these articles, I was contacted by media representatives and I instructed my office to release a press statement which publically and officially stated that Burke Ramsey was not a suspect in connection with the murder of his sister and that stated in part, “almost a year ago (Boulder) Police Chief Mark Beckner stated during a news conference that Burke (Ramsey) was not a suspect and that we are not looking at him as a possible suspect. To this day Burke Ramsey is not a suspect.” The information contained in the May 1999 press statement was true and correct.

8. From December 26, 1996 to the present date, I have never engaged in plea bargain negotiations, talks or discussions with anyone in connection with the investigation into the murder of JonBenét Ramsey based in whole or in part on the premise that Burke Ramsey killed his sister. From December 26, 1996 to the present date, no member of my office has ever engaged in plea bargain negotiations, talks or discussions with anyone in connection with the investigation into the murder of JonBenét Ramsey based in whole or in part on the premise that Burke Ramsey killed his sister.

9. [Draft language struck from this paragraph]

10. I am aware that this Affidavit may be used by counsel for Burke Ramsey in connection with libel litigation brought on his behalf in various jurisdictions. FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NOT. This 12th day of October, 2000 Signed by Alexander M. Hunter

Documents obtained from the lawsuit indicated that Hunter struck the following language, as drafted and proposed for his consideration by Lin Wood, from two paragraphs before signing off on the final version of the Affidavit. The deleted language reads as follows and a copy of the original affidavit with the changes, and handwritten notes in the margin may be viewed in the appendix. 46

6. "All questions related to Burke Ramsey’s possible involvement in the murder of JonBenét Ramsey were resolved to the satisfaction of the investigators and Burke Ramsey has never been viewed by investigators as a suspect in connection with the murder of his sister."
Handwritten notes in the margin next to paragraph 6 appeared to modify Wood’s proposed language to the following:
"From December 26, 1996, to the date of this affidavit…"
When combined with the remaining language of Wood’s affidavit, paragraph 6 read as follows:
"From December 26, 1996, to the date of this affidavit, no evidence has ever been developed in the investigation to justify elevating Burke Ramsey’s status from that of witness to Suspect.”

Paragraph 9 appeared to be struck in its entirety.
9. “From December 26, 1996 to the date of this Affidavit, Burke Ramsey has not been and is not at present, a suspect in the investigation into the murder of his sister, JonBenét Ramsey.”

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