Questions you'd like answers to...

[Ambitioned]

Simply ask yourself: Would YOU feel comfortable sleeping in a basement bedroom if you were family of a child murdered the way JBR was?

Nope. I'd insist on sleeping in my parents' bed or their room.

 

[otg]

I've always thought that's what she says at the end -- or it at least that's what it sounds like. Anyone make out what Patsy says at the beginning of the call before she says POLICE?

I'm glad you noticed there is conversation at the beginning of the 911 call that most ignore or transcriptions simply dismiss as "inaudible." Had investigators paid more attention to the exact words recorded and the circumstances around the alleged "failed disconnect," they might have figured out more than what they ever realized. (All IMO, of course.)

I think Burke's voice can be heard at the beginning of the recording, asking his mother why they are calling 911. This while Patsy is waiting for the call to be connected. The 911 operator answers the call and before Patsy realizes it's been picked up, she is answering Burke's question. She stops in mid-sentence and exclaims, "POLICE!" so that everyone in the room knows it's been answered and they (Burke and John) need to shut-up.

Here's what I think is said:

Burke: ...one?
911: 911 emergency... (interrupted)
Patsy: Hon’, we need ‘em... (mumbled syllable, then a short pause and change in tone when Patsy realizes the call has been answered) ...POLICE!
911: What’s going on... (interrupted)
Patsy: 755 Fifteenth Street!
911: What’s going on there, Ma’am?
Patsy: We had a kidnapping. Hurry, please.
​

When Patsy thought she had hung up the receiver, it didn't disconnect. But they claimed this call was made from the wall phone in the kitchen. Ask yourself how someone can fail to cradle the receiver on a wall phone without it falling to the counter-top below. I think this call was made from the desktop phone in the basement and all three surviving Ramseys were present from the beginning to the end of the call. If investigators had realized this and told them they had that proof, I think they might have had them. They would have been separated and questioned, and at least one of the three would have cracked.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Could you elaborate on what you think the transcript should be, if it is incorrect? Because I've listened to the clips so many times I feel I am going bonkers. If you are 100% certain, please let us know what your theory is. I'd love to hear any fresh ideas.


Adding to the list of burning questions I want answered:

What the heck was the Dec 23rd 911 call all about? Why don't we have records of it? Do we have any kind of confirmation that Fleet White mistakenly dialed it, or is that just more Ramsey lies?

The story about Fleet dialing by mistake comes from DOI and has never been corroborated by any other source afaik. So I tend not to believe it. You should check out the Dec 23 party thread.


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[Meara]

Do we know where BR has spent the last 20 yrs? I know some of it has been in Charlevoix, but I'm wanting to know if we can track his whereabouts over time, i.e. a timetable. Anybody?

kanzz, great idea. This would be very useful.

A related question: Does anyone have information about BR's relationships with JAR and Melinda, his uncle (JR's brother), or any other relatives, over the past 20 years?

 

[Rott Mom]

The very fact that PR hung up on the 911 operator is so disturbing to me. Why would anyone hang up while reporting their child missing before telling the operator how tall the child is, the child's complexion, the length of her hair, any birthmarks, the color of the child's eyes or identifying the last known clothing worn by the child?

Or even her name??? Total B.S., IMO.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Did Archuleta say that she tried to call PR back?

PR didn't even state her name.

 

[kanzz]

All I have read is how he tossed his instrument to the floor at the Lovett School in Atlanta. Then graduated from Perdue.

Some guy on Reddit claims to know him and that he's a standard IT dude. But, as we know, anyone can claim to be anything on the net.

He says BR's favorite drink is Soylent. Best comment ever was when someone asked if it was pineapple flavored?

Anyway sorry I don't know much more. :cheers:

Oh my! I didn't know there was a product called Soylent.. had to google that. For those of us old enough to remember, there was a movie in 1973 entitled "Soylent Green", a sci-fi thriller. Knowing the surprise ending of that movie (I won't spoil it for you), I don't understand why anybody would want to name their company "Soylent". ( Pineapple flavored - LOL! )

Thanks for the info about his whereabouts. I've just had this major hinky alarm about BR since yesterday morning and I'd like to follow up, but I doubt I'll be able to.

 

[AndHence]

A real intruder wouldn't place the note on a back staircase. He'd have no way of knowing Patsy came down that way each morning. An intruder would leave a note either on JonBenet's bed or on the kitchen table where it would surely be found. The story about the note on the staircase was made up to implicate the housekeeper who apparently left notes for Patsy in that location.

 

[Rott Mom]

Question I would like an answer to - being a "small foreign faction" how in the world did "they" know the English language better than I know the English language? Attache? Give me a break.

 

[otg]

Do we know where BR has spent the last 20 yrs? I know some of it has been in Charlevoix, but I'm wanting to know if we can track his whereabouts over time, i.e. a timetable. Anybody?

In Listen Carefully: Truth and Evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey Case, the Epilogue chapter ("Who They Were, Where They Are Now") has this:

Born January 27, 1987, Burke Ramsey was a month away from being 10-years-old at the time of his sister’s death. The morning of December 26, 1996, police tried ask Burke questions when he appeared downstairs at the Ramsey home. However, John Ramsey intervened, stating Burke was asleep the whole night and had heard nothing. Family friend Fleet White then drove Burke to his house where he could be cared for by visiting family members and be with Whites’ children, who were about Burke’s age.

According to information in the book Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Burke was briefly questioned the afternoon of December 26 by Detective Fred Patterson. Patterson drove to the Whites’ home because he wondered if Burke had seen or heard anything that would help the investigation. A woman who identified herself as “the grandmother” sat in on the interview that occurred at about 3 pm. No relevant information was gleaned from that interview. To the detectives, Burke appeared to be somewhat unconcerned about the presence of the police at his house and the whereabouts of his sister. A Child Protective Services (CPS) psychologist also interviewed Burke about a week after the funeral and noted Burke’s apparent lack of anxiety over what had happened to his sister.

Chief Mark Beckner reported in an online question-and-answer interview in 2015, the Boulder Police Department detectives were never allowed to interview Burke. At the end of the school year in May 1997, the family departed for their vacation home Charlevoix, Michigan, and later settled in Atlanta, Georgia.

Burke was finally interviewed by investigators in Atlanta on June 10-13, 1998, a year and a half after JonBenét’s death. After negotiations with the Ramseys’ attorneys, DA Alex Hunter would not permit anyone from the Boulder Police Department to be present. The interview was conducted by Detective Dan Schuler of the Broomfield, Colorado, Police Department. Schuler held a degree in child development and was considered skilled at interviewing children.

Schuler questioned Burke in the presence of his attorney, Jim Jenkins, for about six hours over the course of three days. Dr. Stephen Jaffe, Burke’s Atlanta psychiatrist, was also present at the interviews. When the three days of interviews about his sister were over, Detective Shuler asked the boy if there was anything he wanted to ask. Burke said yes and pointed to the detective's wristwatch, “Is that a Rolex?”

No definitive information resulted Schuler’s interview with Burke, although some statements were different than his original session with the Child Protective Services psychologist in January 1997. Of course, nothing regarding Burke’s Grand Jury testimony has ever been revealed.

An arrangement between District Attorney Alex Hunter and the Ramseys’ attorneys included an agreement to shield all medical and psychiatric records of the family from the investigation, and this was reinforced by the subsequent District Attorney, Mary Lacy.

Burke attended the prestigious private Lovett School in Atlanta after the family’s return from Boulder. When Burke had two years left to finish high school, the Ramseys decided to relocate to Charlevoix, Michigan, in July 2003. Burke completed his senior year at Charlevoix High School in May 2005. The following year he enrolled in Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana, graduating in May 2010 with a Bachelor of Science in Computer and Information Technology.

In the fall of 2010, detectives from the Boulder Police Department tried to speak with Burke at his home, but he declined to speak to them. The Ramseys’ family attorney, Lin Wood, later called the Boulder Police Department and lodged an objection to the detectives’ visit. Wood informed them that Burke has no interest in answering questions from investigators.

However, in September 2016, Burke gave his first television interview to talk-show host, Phil McGraw, publically known as Dr. Phil. Interestingly, Lin Wood is also McGraw’s attorney.

Burke currently works remotely from his home in Charlevoix, Michigan, as a software engineer. Previously, Burke worked at the office of MOBI Wireless Management in Indianapolis, Indiana. In addition to his interest in computer science, Burke also enjoys flying and sailing.

​

 

[ZoriahNZ]

The story about Fleet dialing by mistake comes from DOI and has never been corroborated by any other source afaik. So I tend not to believe it. You should check out the Dec 23 party thread.


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Thanks DFF, I did read that thread. It just irks me that some things are taken as gospel and not followed up, simply because the Ramsey's gave some half-arsed explanation. It just goes to show that money, power and privilege goes a long way in terms of obstructing an investigation.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Thanks DFF, I did read that thread. It just irks me that some things are taken as gospel and not followed up, simply because the Ramsey's gave some half-arsed explanation. It just goes to show that money, power and privilege goes a long way in terms of obstructing an investigation.

Very true. They really just aren't pushed on it at all from what I recall of the interviews and surely with so many people at the party someone should have an answer. It's possible that police do know the answer and are withholding it, either because it's important for some reason or because it's actually irrelevant to the case and they don't know so many of us are going nuts trying to figure out how it fits!

That line from the Ramseys in DOI immediately after they explain that Fleet did it still gets to me, though. "The 911 call still remains somewhat of a mystery." Uh, okay? What's that meant to imply? If it was a mistake, there's no mystery. Do you know that's what happened or don't you?




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[kanzz]

In Listen Carefully: Truth and Evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey Case, the Epilogue chapter ("Who They Were, Where They Are Now") has this:

Born January 27, 1987, Burke Ramsey was a month away from being 10-years-old at the time of his sister’s death. The morning of December 26, 1996, police tried ask Burke questions when he appeared downstairs at the Ramsey home. However, John Ramsey intervened, stating Burke was asleep the whole night and had heard nothing. Family friend Fleet White then drove Burke to his house where he could be cared for by visiting family members and be with Whites’ children, who were about Burke’s age.

According to information in the book Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Burke was briefly questioned the afternoon of December 26 by Detective Fred Patterson. Patterson drove to the Whites’ home because he wondered if Burke had seen or heard anything that would help the investigation. A woman who identified herself as “the grandmother” sat in on the interview that occurred at about 3 pm. No relevant information was gleaned from that interview. To the detectives, Burke appeared to be somewhat unconcerned about the presence of the police at his house and the whereabouts of his sister. A Child Protective Services (CPS) psychologist also interviewed Burke about a week after the funeral and noted Burke’s apparent lack of anxiety over what had happened to his sister.

Chief Mark Beckner reported in an online question-and-answer interview in 2015, the Boulder Police Department detectives were never allowed to interview Burke. At the end of the school year in May 1997, the family departed for their vacation home Charlevoix, Michigan, and later settled in Atlanta, Georgia.

Burke was finally interviewed by investigators in Atlanta on June 10-13, 1998, a year and a half after JonBenét’s death. After negotiations with the Ramseys’ attorneys, DA Alex Hunter would not permit anyone from the Boulder Police Department to be present. The interview was conducted by Detective Dan Schuler of the Broomfield, Colorado, Police Department. Schuler held a degree in child development and was considered skilled at interviewing children.

Schuler questioned Burke in the presence of his attorney, Jim Jenkins, for about six hours over the course of three days. Dr. Stephen Jaffe, Burke’s Atlanta psychiatrist, was also present at the interviews. When the three days of interviews about his sister were over, Detective Shuler asked the boy if there was anything he wanted to ask. Burke said yes and pointed to the detective's wristwatch, “Is that a Rolex?”

No definitive information resulted Schuler’s interview with Burke, although some statements were different than his original session with the Child Protective Services psychologist in January 1997. Of course, nothing regarding Burke’s Grand Jury testimony has ever been revealed.

An arrangement between District Attorney Alex Hunter and the Ramseys’ attorneys included an agreement to shield all medical and psychiatric records of the family from the investigation, and this was reinforced by the subsequent District Attorney, Mary Lacy.

Burke attended the prestigious private Lovett School in Atlanta after the family’s return from Boulder. When Burke had two years left to finish high school, the Ramseys decided to relocate to Charlevoix, Michigan, in July 2003. Burke completed his senior year at Charlevoix High School in May 2005. The following year he enrolled in Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana, graduating in May 2010 with a Bachelor of Science in Computer and Information Technology.

In the fall of 2010, detectives from the Boulder Police Department tried to speak with Burke at his home, but he declined to speak to them. The Ramseys’ family attorney, Lin Wood, later called the Boulder Police Department and lodged an objection to the detectives’ visit. Wood informed them that Burke has no interest in answering questions from investigators.

However, in September 2016, Burke gave his first television interview to talk-show host, Phil McGraw, publically known as Dr. Phil. Interestingly, Lin Wood is also McGraw’s attorney.

Burke currently works remotely from his home in Charlevoix, Michigan, as a software engineer. Previously, Burke worked at the office of MOBI Wireless Management in Indianapolis, Indiana. In addition to his interest in computer science, Burke also enjoys flying and sailing.

​

Thank you!

So, it looks like BR has spent his time as an adult at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana, and Charlevoix. OK. I appreciate everyone's help.

 

[icedtea4me]

*snip*That line from the Ramseys in DOI immediately after they explain that Fleet did it still gets to me, though. "The 911 call still remains somewhat of a mystery." Uh, okay? What's that meant to imply? If it was a mistake, there's no mystery. Do you know that's what happened or don't you?




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They could be making the mistaken 911 call seem more sinister than what it really is.

 

[Meara]

Hi Meara. Great post with several good points! I decided to focus on the BBM because I'm still stuck on the fact that we know of at least two instances of BR being allowed to sleep in the basement of friends/family shortly after the murder. Both in Atlanta with relatives then later in CO with the Archuletta's (according to Pam A. book "Patsy Ramsey: What the Pilot's Wife Knew.

Simply ask yourself: Would YOU feel comfortable sleeping in a basement bedroom if you were family of a child murdered the way JBR was? Would you let your son sleep in the host's basement even if he wanted to? I mean really, a caring host whether family or friend would NEVER suggest that the parents or Especially The Young Brother sleep in the basement of their home - NO WAY! It just makes zero sense IMO.

If anyone else knows of other instances of BR staying in a room in the basement of any of their hosts after the murder, please let me know. Frankly, I'm surprised that we even have that info from published books about the case. What? T^he writers or publishers never noticed? or did they indeed notice and provided the info as a clue.

So yes, I would be very curious to know more details about BR's life after the first few months of the murder. Did he continue to presumably prefer sleeping in the basement area of a home? Does he sleep in a basement or garden apartment now? I'm curious to know.

Hi Coroallaro. Thanks; it's nice to connect over your excellent post : )

However, this information is new to me, and halfway through reading it I blurted out What??

To your questions -- No, in comparable circumstances I wouldn't be comfortable sleeping in someone's basement bedroom soon after the murder, if ever, nor as a parent would I let my son have a sleepover in someone's basement bedroom. And no, if I were the friend's parents, I wouldn't dream of it because it would be grotesque and devoid of empathy, like inviting your son's friend over for a pool party after his little sister had drowned. Did these parents not consider the possible harm? How is this little boy doing? Could staying in the basement be traumatic? Is it worth risking?

It makes no sense according to the Gospel of Ramsey, either: 'Someone recently invaded our home and gruesomely murdered our six year old daughter and dumped her in the basement while we slept; we don't know who or why; it was supposed to be a kidnapping, but they never got the money and they hate us, so they may try again; and our 10 year old son who's in therapy and has guards at school is going to sleep over at a friend's in their basement bedroom. What could possibly go wrong?'

Encouraging BR to visit friends and not isolate is understandable, but Good Lord, did none of these people ever hear of a cookout?

Denial is not a fixed point. It is a continuum that preserves lives at one end and annihilates them at the other. Did denial destroy both children?

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

They could be making the mistaken 911 call seem more sinister than what it really is.

It made me wonder if they were implying FW was making the call for some untoward reason, but I can't imagine what that would be.


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[Tortoise]

Hi Coroallaro. Thanks; it's nice to connect over your excellent post : )

However, this information is new to me, and halfway through reading it I blurted out What??

To your questions -- No, in comparable circumstances I wouldn't be comfortable sleeping in someone's basement bedroom soon after the murder, if ever, nor as a parent would I let my son have a sleepover in someone's basement bedroom. And no, if I were the friend's parents, I wouldn't dream of it because it would be grotesque and devoid of empathy, like inviting your son's friend over for a pool party after his little sister had drowned. Did these parents not consider the possible harm? How is this little boy doing? Could staying in the basement be traumatic? Is it worth risking?

It makes no sense according to the Gospel of Ramsey, either: 'Someone recently invaded our home and gruesomely murdered our six year old daughter and dumped her in the basement while we slept; we don't know who or why; it was supposed to be a kidnapping, but they never got the money and they hate us, so they may try again; and our 10 year old son who's in therapy and has guards at school is going to sleep over at a friend's in their basement bedroom. What could possibly go wrong?'

Encouraging BR to visit friends and not isolate is understandable, but Good Lord, did none of these people ever hear of a cookout?

Denial is not a fixed point. It is a continuum that preserves lives at one end and annihilates them at the other. Did denial destroy both children?

[FONT=&quot]11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, he's a large[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 man. And anyway, Jeff had called and said to my[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 dad, they are on their way to your house. Do[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 you have a gun? And I mean for Jeff Ramsey to[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 say something like this in pretty wild. So I[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 just remember, you know, somebody scooping me up[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 and Burke up and my mom and all this and we went[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 downstairs to our basement where my mother had[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 set up some temporary beds and then like, you[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 know, like thrown on the beds, like "don't[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 anybody say anything" and you know, John and my[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 dad were going to try to calm them down or[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 something. You know. Just --[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 TOM HANEY: Okay. What do you mean[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 again, what did--[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0078

http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm
[/FONT]

 

[CorallaroC]

[FONT="]11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, he's a large[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 man. And anyway, Jeff had called and said to my[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 dad, they are on their way to your house. Do[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 you have a gun? And I mean for Jeff Ramsey to[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 say something like this in pretty wild. So I[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 just remember, you know, somebody scooping me up[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 and Burke up and my mom and all this and [B]we went[/B][/FONT]
[FONT="]18 downstairs to our basement where my mother had[/FONT]
[FONT="][B]19 set up some temporary beds[/B] and then like, you[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 know, like thrown on the beds, like "don't[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 anybody say anything" and you know, John and my[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 dad were going to try to calm them down or[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 something. You know. Just --[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 TOM HANEY: Okay. What do you mean[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 again, what did--[/FONT]
[FONT="]0078

http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm
[/FONT]

Hi Coroallaro. Thanks; it's nice to connect over your excellent post : )

However, this information is new to me, and halfway through reading it I blurted out What??

To your questions -- No, in comparable circumstances I wouldn't be comfortable sleeping in someone's basement bedroom soon after the murder, if ever, nor as a parent would I let my son have a sleepover in someone's basement bedroom. And no, if I were the friend's parents, I wouldn't dream of it because it would be grotesque and devoid of empathy, like inviting your son's friend over for a pool party after his little sister had drowned. Did these parents not consider the possible harm? How is this little boy doing? Could staying in the basement be traumatic? Is it worth risking?

It makes no sense according to the Gospel of Ramsey, either: 'Someone recently invaded our home and gruesomely murdered our six year old daughter and dumped her in the basement while we slept; we don't know who or why; it was supposed to be a kidnapping, but they never got the money and they hate us, so they may try again; and our 10 year old son who's in therapy and has guards at school is going to sleep over at a friend's in their basement bedroom. What could possibly go wrong?'

Encouraging BR to visit friends and not isolate is understandable, but Good Lord, did none of these people ever hear of a cookout?

Denial is not a fixed point. It is a continuum that preserves lives at one end and annihilates them at the other. Did denial destroy both children?

Hello All, I would like to clarify something pertaining to my previous post about BR sleeping in the basement of friends/family. I should have described it more precisely so as NOT to implyBR's peers or childhood friends. I certainly have never heard about BR staying for sleepovers with his own friends. I was referring to family friends specifically the Archuletta's as mentioned in PA's book./B]

Below this post, I will attempt to provide a snippet from the book Patsy Ramsey: What The Pilot's Wife Knew" .pertaining to BR sleeping in the basement of their home. The way I understand it, the timeline would have been during the GJ proceedings when BR was called before the GJ.

 

[CorallaroC]

snippet from the book PR: What The Pilot's Wife Knew"

..."The Ramsey's attorneys brought them to the house, and I showed them the guest room. We had a fairly nice guest room, but it was before we remodeled, and our house was just 2800 square feet. There was a small bedroom in the basement where Burke would be sleeping. It was cozy, yet comfortable and clean. Patsy and John never objected to staying at our home even though it was very different from their house in Boulder or Atlanta.... "

 

[Disgusted]

Two things I want to add to the discussion re analyzing the enhanced 911 audio:

1. Use headphones. Don't even bother if you are trying to do it from speakers. Get some decent headphones that wrap around the ears.
2. Work from the CBS audio. It's the best we have access to. They weren't "play acting" any more than you were the first time you heard the voices.

I see a few of you have already figured out there's more syllables there than what has been reported. None of you have the actual words right yet in my humble opinion, but you're on the right track in so far as realizing the reported words are wrong and that there are more syllables than reported.

 

[SerenitySprings]

Did these parents not consider the possible harm? How is this little boy doing? Could staying in the basement be traumatic? Is it worth risking?

Unless they (probably PR) were trying to punish him, consciously or subconsciously.


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