Questions you'd like answers to...

[BBB167893]

My brother did not hurt that little girl what the tabloids are saying is slander and lies

Hello. Who is your brother and what are the tabloids saying?

 

[archieil]

thx for all explanations.

 

[otg]

DP: Does that look like her handwriting?

BURKE: (nervous laughter) Honestly, looking at that she would always bug me about having good handwriting. She would like make me re-write stuff to try and make me have good handwriting. I think it's too sloppy.

How is it too sloppy if he never read it?

Giving the benefit of the doubt on this one, McGraw as holding up a copy of the RN at the time, showing it to Burke when he asked the question. (For anyone who wants to check, this occurs about ten minutes into the second episode.)

Is there a no in his answer?

Nope!

 

[otg]

In order for you to see JRs motive in voluntarily and purposely giving PRs pad to LE, you must take yourself into their minds, as they were staging the death of their daughter to make it look like an intruder had came in their home that night, and killed her.

We see how they went to the ends of the earth to distance themselves, in particular, Pasty from the ransom note. We see it in her coming up with a grand story of how she jumped over the note on her way down the spiral staircase that morning, or in her own words "somehow got around it", instead of just picking up the pieces of paper that were spread out before her. She then says she bounded back up the stairs, without ever touching the note to check JB room and called for John. Then somehow they arrived on the floor with no creases, bends, fingerprints, or any signs of handling, all spread out perfectly on the floor when Officer French arrived 7 minutes after the 911 call.

Where are the creases? Where are the signs of the parents clutching the note, reading word for word?, where are the parents fingerprints?
Kinda convienant how Patsy somehow avoided touching the note on her way down the stairs, and on her way up the stairs, even though this note says "we have your daughter". Kinda too convienant that JR was on his hands and knees, reading the note as it "lay on the floor". So as you can see the parents did everything they could to not touch the note once their gloves were off and were awaiting LE to arrive. Why?

So when LE asks for handwriting samples that morning, JR purposely gives them a pad that he wrote on, and then gives them the ransom note pad, which was Patsy's pad, that had some of her writings, lists, etc...You may ask yourself why would JR purposely give LE the incriminating pad?
It's for the same reason why they left two practice notes in the trash bin(Dr.Henry Lee)and one practice note in the pad.

Still confused? JR and PR had to paint a picture for LE that an intruder had done this. So here is the reasoning:
JR knew that LE would find Patsy's fingerprints all over the notepad(which they did, 5 of her prints were found on the notepad). JR and PR knew that her prints were not on the ransom note, or the practice ones that were found. So by this fact, they made it look like an intruder had came in the house, sat down and with gloves on, wrote the note and when he "messed" up, he just tossed away the practice notes(showing he was there taking his time). The Ramsey's could now say that her prints are all over the pad but not the note therefore it proves she didn't write it, or her prints would be on it. JR could also say, I gave you that pad, do you think if we did it, I would have given you that pad? I'm not that dumb! This was a reverse psychology move. Now don't you see how it all comes together? Now do you see why it was so pertinent that they tell a story of how Patsy never touched the note? They tried to distance themselves from the ransom note bc they knew it was going to be hard to overcome. They did the same thing with the flashlight. They left it out on purpose for LE to find, but completely wiped it of prints to distance themselves from it. They overthought it.

I called it a "reverse psychology move" when I wrote this. It is a form of plausible deniability.

Excellent, Cs.

 

[otg]

^Thanks, it's not a terrible theory, but I disagree. If they were doing their best to separate themselves from the note, as you suggest in your first couple paragraphs, then they wouldn't have taken the risk of providing the direct source of the letter voluntarily. If that really was the plan, then they wouldn't have left the "Mr. & Mrs. I" page in the same notepad; they would have thrown that one away with the other two notes, because that one page directly implicates PR (since it was left in her tablet and not JR's). Providing the pads would have sufficed without that "Mr. & Mrs. I" page, with regard to "proving" they didn't write the note. All that "Mr. & Mrs. I" page does still in that pad, is directly implicate PR.

But using the excellent point you made in a previous post, with which I agree wholeheartedly (bbm):

People always want to assume that every single thing that happened in this case has reason to it, which is a mistake. Not every single thing that occurred in this crime was 100% purposeful.

It's quite possible JR panicked and handed over the notepad because it would have looked incredibly suspicious if he didn't hand it over, especially if he knew police had already seen it.

It's also possible that he wasn't in PR's presence while she wrote the note (he was busy staging in the wine cellar), so he didn't realize it was written on that particular pad. Maybe he assumed PR wouldn't have been stupid enough to put the pad back.

 

[HRP]

The "practice note(s)"--exactly, and factually, what is this? One sheet, more? Sheets still in the notepad? A sheet tossed in a waste bin? What was written? Any photos? Of all "practice note(s)"?

I ask because I have seen various stories on the "practice note(s)".

 

[HRP]

Questions you'd like answers to...


Q: How often do/does Jonbenet's killer(s) come to this site and read or comment?

Likely never. He said on Phil McGraw's show he had never even read his mother's RN.

Are you saying Burke is always truthful? If so, he said he didn't kill his sister.

 

[Userid]

But using the excellent point you made in a previous post, with which I agree wholeheartedly (bbm):

So you're saying, they forgot the "Mr. and Mrs. I" page was in there? That's plausible, but then, how do we know the 2 discarded notes weren't simply overlooked?

 

[otg]

So you're saying, they forgot the "Mr. and Mrs. I" page was in there? That's plausible, but then, how do we know the 2 discarded notes weren't simply overlooked?

No, I really was just pointing out that we could apply the same reasoning you had so succinctly expressed in the earlier post to the "practice" note(s). I think you are right (and very astute to notice) that we often try to explain every little detail assuming that everything done was deliberate. I think there were a lot of mistakes and unintentional slips that were made. The problem for us (or investigators) is being able to recognize them or take them into account.

As for the number of "practice" notes, I'm at a loss. I know about the one that was found in the pad that began with "Mr. and Mrs. I (downstroke)." While it has often been referred to as a "practice" note, it really isn't anything more that the start of an unfinished note. Patsy probably (I'm just theorizing here) started it like she would any note to someone (leaving off the salutation -- which would have sounded weird coming from these heartless criminals she was trying to emulate), and John told her to start over and address it to him only, because he wanted to make it look like the "kidnappers" were wanting to deal only with him because of his "bussiness."

The only time I've read about two notes being found in a waste basket has been when a another poster writes it. I don't think they exist, but I could be wrong. So many things have gone from speculation or hyperbole to case orthodoxy without examination. If there actually are two other practice notes, I'd sure like to hear more about them and maybe even see them to compare to the actual RN (which Patsy wrote).

 

[Userid]

^ I gotcha, thanks OTG. Yes, and I'll also add to that, that's the hardest part in any case: determining what was done purposefully (focusing your effort into examining those items) and what is not.

Yes, I agree with your take on the Mr/Mrs. I note/heading. Although, I must admit, it was always peculiar to me how that was revised. Again, is there more significance to this item? Am I giving it more than there really is? I'm a PDI, so I admit my bias may be playing a factor here; and I certainly wouldn't use this to strengthen my theory, but as a PDI, and the fact it was revised to remove the "Mrs.," it's obvious why I question if there is more significance....i.e. PR was desperate to distance herself from everything, even being one of the addressees in the header. Just a thought and I'm rambling now, but I believe more so in your theory: that the revision was simply an "on-the-fly" decision that was made by both, as they were concocting the ransom-note-scenario in real time.

It's hard to remember what evidence is real and what I read; I had a feeling that I simply read that about the 2 discarded letters, but couldn't remember specifically.

 

[archieil]

• Additional sheets were missing from the pad and were never located at defendants' home. The pen used to write the Ransom Note was sourced to defendants' home and found placed back in its normal place by the phone. Finally, there was another page in the pad that had written on it "Mr. and Mrs. I," which many believe to have been an early "false start" of the Ransom Note. (PSDMF P 51.)" (Carnes 2003:24-25).

Encyclopedia.

I have met information about practice note found after searching the house without the information it was only beginning in the pad.
I was looking for different analysis of RN at that time.

Seems it is this source regarding the possible number of practice notes:
http://www.acandyrose.com/04112000thomas-pg73-74.htm

 

[Cranberry]

So you're saying, they forgot the "Mr. and Mrs. I" page was in there? That's plausible, but then, how do we know the 2 discarded notes weren't simply overlooked?

Hi Userid, In Steve Thomas' book IRMI he stated pages 17-25 were missing and page 26 was the Mr.and Mrs. I page. The ransom note was pages 27-29. The 2 practice notes *may* be #1. the Mr and Mrs I page 26 in the tablet with bleed through from page 25 and #2. page 25 which was never found. I've never read about a practice note in the trash. From Steve Thomas IRMI:

Furthermore, the ink bleedthrough discovered on page 26 indicated that perhaps still another practice note could have been written on page 25 and been discarded. Two possible practice notes and one real one covering three pages led me to believe that the killer had spent more time in the house composing the ransom note than we originally thought.

 

[Cranberry]

Where are the tears? If I read such a note it would be full of my tears and fingerprints. Js.

I agree Ambitioned, tears, snot, makeup, Shout, lots of DNA would have been on there I would think.

 

[Userid]

Hi Userid, In Steve Thomas' book IRMI he stated pages 17-25 were missing and page 26 was the Mr.and Mrs. I page. The ransom note was pages 27-29. The 2 practice notes *may* be #1. the Mr and Mrs I page 26 in the tablet with bleed through from page 25 and #2. page 25 which was never found. I've never read about a practice note in the trash. From Steve Thomas IRMI:

Furthermore, the ink bleedthrough discovered on page 26 indicated that perhaps still another practice note could have been written on page 25 and been discarded. Two possible practice notes and one real one covering three pages led me to believe that the killer had spent more time in the house composing the ransom note than we originally thought.

Hi Cranberry, thanks for the info. Those missing pages from 17-25 really make me wonder. There was a time when I thought that perhaps those pages were simply grocery lists or something innocuous to the case. If I remember correctly, pages 1-16 were doodles and notes (i.e. not incriminating in nature). What in the world could have been on those pages? Different (but finished) versions of the ransom note? Instructions for somebody? A list of items that needed to be removed?

 

[Cranberry]

Hi Cranberry, thanks for the info. Those missing pages from 17-25 really make me wonder. There was a time when I thought that perhaps those pages were simply grocery lists or something innocuous to the case. If I remember correctly, pages 1-16 were doodles and notes (i.e. not incriminating in nature). What in the world could have been on those pages? Different (but finished) versions of the ransom note? Instructions for somebody? A list of items that needed to be removed?[/QUOTE

9 pages, I think practice makes perfect. And then it was edited down to 2 1/2 pages. JMO

 

[Ambitioned]

I agree Ambitioned, tears, snot, makeup, Shout, lots of DNA would have been on there I would think.

You betcha!!!!

 

[archieil]

There is no information how many dots were visible on the practice note left inside the pad.

He could have tried to write a note to both parents till he gets rid of it having no idea what to write to both of them.

Because I was told the only practice note left was destroyed it is not possible to check exactly everything and compare to the official note.

btw. I had also an idea that Patsy rewrote the ransom note for some reasons. It was connected to version 3 of my theory mostly.
A thorough analysis of ransom note more or less removes this possibility in exchange for a person with literary aspirations.

 

[singularity]

Hi Cranberry, thanks for the info. Those missing pages from 17-25 really make me wonder. There was a time when I thought that perhaps those pages were simply grocery lists or something innocuous to the case. If I remember correctly, pages 1-16 were doodles and notes (i.e. not incriminating in nature). What in the world could have been on those pages? Different (but finished) versions of the ransom note? Instructions for somebody? A list of items that needed to be removed?

In one of the transcipts, JOhn makes a mistake when mentioning the timeline for the ransom. Not gonna dig for it now but he was several hours off. When reading that, it made me think he's remembering an alternate ransom note and its timeline. Lucky for him, LE didn't call him on the odd mistake.

 

[Cranberry]

In one of the transcipts, JOhn makes a mistake when mentioning the timeline for the ransom. Not gonna dig for it now but he was several hours off. When reading that, it made me think he's remembering an alternate ransom note and its timeline. Lucky for him, LE didn't call him on the odd mistake.

Hello, yes here in JR's 6/98 interview about the time:

4 JOHN RAMSEY: I really don't remember
5 specifically. The best I can do is, it was, I
6 believe, after the police came. Because they had
7 gone through the house before I figured out what
8 I'm going to do. It was before ten o'clock. They
9 had already done some preparation before that. So
10 it would have been before. Probably before nine.
11 So then somewhere between seven and nine.
12 MIKE KANE: Okay. I think it's, and this
13 may put things into perspective. I think you were
14 saying that you were expecting a phone call
15 between ten and 12. The note said between eight
16 and ten.
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, really?
18 MIKE KANE: So does that note, does
19 that put into context, between eight and ten,
20 where were you?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE) yeah. Really it
22 does. When we were ready for the phone call and I
23 was prepped about what I was going to say and I
24 was getting the family ready. And so between that
25 period of time we were just waiting for the phone
0175
1 call and I was near the phone. And I was either in
2 the study or on the first floor. I just waiting
3 for it.
4 MIKE KANE: So it would have been before
5 that?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: It would have been before
7 that time period.
8 MIKE KANE: But would if have been before
9 the time that you said Linda prepped you? I
10 believe she arrived later on; she arrived around
11 eight o'clock or so?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: No, it was before that.
13 MIKE KANE: It was before that?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE) my time --
15 MIKE KANE: No, I understand. That's why
16 trying to (INAUDIBLE).
17 JOHN RAMSEY: But if the note said, eight
18 to ten, which I don't remember.
19 MIKE KANE: Yes, it said that, eight.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: We were well prepared. There
21 was recorders set up; there was wire taps in
22 place; Linda had briefed me on what to say. So she
23 would have gotten there, gosh, quarter to seven,
24 seven. I'm sure --
25 MIKE KANE: Yeah. No, I'm just trying to
0176
1 put the time --
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. But she was there for
3 a while. She was there a good while before we were
4 ready for the call.

and also in the 4/97 interview:

JR: Right, and ah, and they asked (inaudible) I don’t remember the exact sequence, but the Whites and the Fernies came fairly quickly. The first officer that was there which I think was Rick French, asked us to stay in the sun room which is that front corner room. So he kept us fairly well (inaudible) in there. And then my (inaudible) came relatively quickly and they set up a, and there were some other plain clothes people there I think. They set up a recorder on the phone and started to talk with us, you know, about what, who could have done this. We spent some time talking about what I should do when I answered the phone and there was some confusion; the note said I’m going to call between 10 and or between, it was 8 and 10 tomorrow. Not sure if tomorrow was today or actually tomorrow. But I was prepped to answer the phone from 10 til (inaudible) to answer it. Then someone calls.

 

[AlGx]

Did the Ramsey household have a laundry chute and/or a dumbwaiter?