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[Userid]

Let's try this on Patsy:

"I’d have to be pretty stupid to murder my child in my own home and then write a Ransom Note using a notepad and pen from my own home. I’d be announcing myself as the killer. I’m not stupid.

This is plausible deniability.


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Not if those were the only things at their disposal, and they were. It's not like they could have ran to the store and picked up a new notepad and marker. Everything about this case is connected to the house (with the exception of the duct tape, which is debatable) for a reason; because they had no other choice and because time was running out.

 

[Cottonstar]

Not if those were the only things at their disposal, and they were. It's not like they could have ran to the store and picked up a new notepad and marker. Everything about this case is connected to the house (with the exception of the duct tape, which is debatable) for a reason; because they had no other choice and because time was running out.

Right. Exactly. Confronted with those conditions that you just stated, this why they chose to do what they did. It's the same sort of psychology as why they left the flashlight on the counter.


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[Userid]

Right. Exactly. Confronted with those conditions that you just stated, this why they chose to do what they did. It's the same sort of psychology as why they left the flashlight on the counter.


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But again, why leave the "Mr. & Mrs. I" page in the notepad, but throw away the other 2 practice notes? That would have directly implicated PR right there.

 

[Cottonstar]

1 denied it. I mean, it would be very easy, if we
2 were trying to hide this, it would be very easy
3 to say oh, yeah, I got up and fed her pineapple,
4 that explains that, then put her back to bed.
5 We didn't. So I --
6 LOU SMIT: This is why, you know,
7 people think about those things, and especially
8 detectives.
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, what I -- I
10 guess one of the things that I felt all along is
11 I mean this thing with oh, you know, we found
12 the practice note and ransom note -- the
13 practice ransom note on the pad. If I was
14 setting this up, give me some credit for being
15 smarter than that. You know, would I have
16 handed Linda Arndt the pad that I wrote the
17 practice note on? If we were trying to disguise
18 something, why wouldn't we say oh, yeah, we fed
19 her pineapple before she went to bed, that
20 explains that. We didn't.
21 So I can't -- I don't accept that
22 that happened. If it did, I would have said it
23 or Patsy would have said it. Even if we were
24 guilty, I mean what's the big deal? I mean you
25 know, what I mean, that it didn't happen.


I wrote about JR handing over the notepad deliberately months ago. I seemed to figure out his schema in doing so. I almost forgot but a couple of months ago I discovered that JR actually employed plausible deniability on the notepad! It was during his interview with LS and he was being questioned about the pineapple. Here it is:

1 denied it. I mean, it would be very easy, if we
2 were trying to hide this, it would be very easy
3 to say oh, yeah, I got up and fed her pineapple,
4 that explains that, then put her back to bed.
5 We didn't. So I --
6 LOU SMIT: This is why, you know,
7 people think about those things, and especially
8 detectives.
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, what I -- I
10 guess one of the things that I felt all along is
11 I mean this thing with oh, you know, we found
12 the practice note and ransom note -- the
13 practice ransom note on the pad. If I was
14 setting this up, give me some credit for being
15 smarter than that. You know, would I have
16 handed Linda Arndt the pad that I wrote the
17 practice note on? If we were trying to disguise
18 something, why wouldn't we say oh, yeah, we fed
19 her pineapple before she went to bed, that
20 explains that. We didn't.
21 So I can't -- I don't accept that
22 that happened. If it did, I would have said it
23 or Patsy would have said it. Even if we were
24 guilty, I mean what's the big deal? I mean you
25 know, what I mean, that it didn't happen. I


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[Userid]

Okay, thanks Cottonstar. It's not a bad theory and it is sensible; you use good logic and it is well-rounded. It's well done. I guess I personally don't give that much credit to the R's and I feel like that would have been an insane risk to take. For example, how could they have been so certain that all three of the pages didn't somehow contain a fingerprint from one of them? Granted, they were wearing gloves, but a print could have still been left on the days preceding, etc; as it was a pad that was used regularly, and not just on that particular day.

 

[Cottonstar]

Okay, thanks Cottonstar. It's not a bad theory and it is sensible; you use good logic and it is well-rounded. It's well done. I guess I personally don't give that much credit to the R's and I feel like that would have been an insane risk to take. For example, how could they have been so certain that all three of the pages didn't somehow contain a fingerprint from one of them? Granted, they were wearing gloves, but a print could have still been left on the days preceding, etc; as it was a pad that was used regularly, and not just on that particular day.

And that would lend to even more plausible deniability, "Well, it's my pad, so of course my fingerprints would be on it, do you really think if I wrote the ransom note, I would have handed over the pad to you just like that?"


Burke invoked this type of PD on Dr. Phil show when he said something like "Well, even if they determined that the boot print in the(cellar room) was mine, so what? I was always down there playing in the basement, it doesn't prove anything"

Sure, it doesn't Burke. But now it does.

I agree that Burke's Hi-Tec boot print in the cellar room doesn't mean he killed JB, on its own.

But, when you have Lin Wood still mouthing off in his slick southern tone; "Nobody in the family owned Hi-Tec boots", add his innocent little statement on Dr. Phil, and you have someone who has a guilty conscience when it comes to that boot print in the cellar room.


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[Cottonstar]

But again, why leave the "Mr. & Mrs. I" page in the notepad, but throw away the other 2 practice notes? That would have directly implicated PR right there.

It all starts to make sense when you realize they were painting this as an inside job.

"If we are confused and mystified by not just the contents of the Ransom Note but the material of the note itself, if we can't understand why Patsy would write it using her own kitchen pad with a pen in the kitchen (and not dispose of either of these) If, we're puzzled why John simply handed samples of his and Patsy's writing over to police when requested at 09:30 that morning, when Patsy's own paintbrush is used as a garrotte, none of it makes sense. Unless the staging is intended to reinforce the idea of an inside job. When Patsy is asked about the handwriting, she immediately fingers the housekeeper, Linda Hoffman Pugh. Linda also has a key to the house. John seems to finger a disgruntled employee, Jeff Merrick. The curious thing is both Patsy and John are effectively accusing employees-a housekeeper is Patsy's first choice, and for John it's a disgruntled ex-employee at Access Graphics. What students of this crime need to see up close is this initial acknowledgement from both JonBenet's parents that it has to be an inside job."

JR says to Arndt right after he brings up JB from the basement, "It has to be an inside job". They both were steadfast and strong when asked about open doors and windows. Which lends to their psychology and the guilt they felt for what happened. No one was going to hold them responsible because they left a door unlocked. After all, they were perfect parents.


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[UKGuy]

It all starts to make sense when you realize they were painting this as an inside job.

"If we are confused and mystified by not just the contents of the Ransom Note but the material of the note itself, if we can't understand why Patsy would write it using her own kitchen pad with a pen in the kitchen (and not dispose of either of these) If, we're puzzled why John simply handed samples of his and Patsy's writing over to police when requested at 09:30 that morning, when Patsy's own paintbrush is used as a garrotte, none of it makes sense. Unless the staging is intended to reinforce the idea of an inside job. When Patsy is asked about the handwriting, she immediately fingers the housekeeper, Linda Hoffman Pugh. Linda also has a key to the house. John seems to finger a disgruntled employee, Jeff Merrick. The curious thing is both Patsy and John are effectively accusing employees-a housekeeper is Patsy's first choice, and for John it's a disgruntled ex-employee at Access Graphics. What students of this crime need to see up close is this initial acknowledgement from both JonBenet's parents that it has to be an inside job."

JR says to Arndt right after he brings up JB from the basement, "It has to be an inside job". They both were steadfast and strong when asked about open doors and windows. Which lends to their psychology and the guilt they felt for what happened. No one was going to hold them responsible because they left a door unlocked. After all, they were perfect parents.


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Cottonstar,
That's what they were promoting, an Inside Job. Another member pointed this out years ago. Yet due to BPD ineptitude the case changed into something else, via Lou Smit, so Lou and John did some praying and the R's were safe since they had a man inside.

Ever since the case has been painted as IDI!

.

 

[archieil]

Cottonstar,
That's what they were promoting, an Inside Job. Another member pointed this out years ago. Yet due to BPD ineptitude the case changed into something else, via Lou Smit, so Lou and John did some praying and the R's were safe since they had a man inside.

Ever since the case has been painted as IDI!

.

Do you play on a lottery?

I would not put millions for your idea.

I understand poor people are eager to risk nothing for a chance of grabbing a million.

Most of your ideas are more or less silly keeping in mind Patsy was deathly sick.

Why Ramseys would risk anything keeping a possibility of just grabbing a whole guilt on her.

She was dead in less than 10 years. What could she expect saying she murdered her daughter? 5-10 years in a hospital prison?

Having this easy option for a whole time any of your ideas are just crazy.

This staging is too crazy in a situation she could just get everything on herself giving her family easy life without any risk.

Tell me why not to use this simple solution? Any US or any reasons at all to not use this simple and common solution?

 

[flourish]

Do you play on a lottery?
What does the lottery have to do with anything?

I would not put millions for your idea.
Nobody has asked you to put in even one cent. Again, what's the point?

I understand poor people are eager to risk nothing for a chance of grabbing a million.
Again, nothing to do with anything. Do you have a problem with poor people? Why the off-topic smack-talking?

Most of your ideas are more or less silly keeping in mind Patsy was deathly sick.
She was NOT deathly ill at the time of JB's death. Even if she was somewhat ill, she was still quite active at that point, and thus any illness at the time, if any, would not be a barrier to her participating in the murder, if she did.

Why Ramseys would risk anything keeping a possibility of just grabbing a whole guilt on her.
What does that even mean? Do you mean you don't think they'd risk anything pointing to her ? Did they have much control? If it was between her and Burke, who would they risk things pointing at?

She was dead in less than 10 years. What could she expect saying she murdered her daughter? 5-10 years in a hospital prison?
Did she know exactly how long she had to live? Wasn't she in remission when JB died? And she didn't say she murdered her daughter.

Having this easy option for a whole time any of your ideas are just crazy.
What easy option exactly?

This staging is too crazy in a situation she could just get everything on herself giving her family easy life without any risk. But if she didn't do it in the first place, how could she ensure everything would point to her...and would that really be giving them an easy life? Burke would have to live with his mom being the murderer of his sister, and JR would have to be an active father with a murderous wife?

Tell me why not to use this simple solution? Any US or any reasons at all to not use this simple and common solution?
Uh, is it possible to perhaps rephrase this in non-Yoda speak?

My comments in blue.
I'm not meaning anything rude here, but I'm wondering if English is not your first language and perhaps that's why so much of what you say comes across as somewhat...gibberish? I'm trying to find a way to reasonably give you the benefit of the doubt...


So who do you think did it, since you seem to know all?

 

[UKGuy]

Do you play on a lottery?

I would not put millions for your idea.

I understand poor people are eager to risk nothing for a chance of grabbing a million.

Most of your ideas are more or less silly keeping in mind Patsy was deathly sick.

Why Ramseys would risk anything keeping a possibility of just grabbing a whole guilt on her.

She was dead in less than 10 years. What could she expect saying she murdered her daughter? 5-10 years in a hospital prison?

Having this easy option for a whole time any of your ideas are just crazy.

This staging is too crazy in a situation she could just get everything on herself giving her family easy life without any risk.

Tell me why not to use this simple solution? Any US or any reasons at all to not use this simple and common solution?

archieil,

Do you play on a lottery?

Nope, before they changed it, the odds were per week something close to 13 Million to One, it's higher now as they added balls and reduced the prize money. Lotteries are just another way of taxing the poor.

I would not put millions for your idea.

That's fine by me, I might put Ten Dollars on BDI though, its the best theory out there, nobody has refuted it so far.

A dying Patsy does not mean she does not have a reputation to protect including that of her pet project JonBenet, heaven forbid the unwashed of Boulder find out that JonBenet was sexually assaulted in her own house, never!

Patently the Ramsey's public face is completely different from their private life, this is why the case is BDI and Patsy killed her daughter to save Burke Ramsey from public humiliation. The parents staged the case and the media have played ball ever since, lets wait and see what happens once JR and LW leave us, will Burke get an easy ride, will he be any good at those fake presentations where they say we are looking for the killer, he is still out there, yada, yada.

 

[archieil]

ok.

It seems I am using somewhat aggressive talk. Not everyone has to take it with understanding.

if I was a millionaire I would never risk my wealth to do some crazy staging without being near 100% sure it will go better than an easier option. [edit] You are suggesting using a million to buy tickets for a lottery having a million grand total. My sense of the situation only.

mixing Patsy with anyone else = easy solution without any near impossible to calculate risk.


I hope to publish today corrected version of my detailed story.
I am trying to understand all reasons lying behind different theories and a way this case was going earlier and is going now.

[edit] I understand she could feel "healthy" but I doubt she was thinking is healed. She was taking some medicines and knew how cancer is working.
I think that idea of her sacrificing the daughter to cure herself was using this logic behind it.

 

[Ambitioned]

Sure, it doesn't Burke. But now it does.

ITA!

Most of your ideas are more or less silly keeping in mind Patsy was deathly sick.

Not at the time. Unless you're suggesting a doppleganger took JB to the pageants, etc? Silly isn't it?

She was dead in less than 10 years. What could she expect saying she murdered her daughter? 5-10 years in a hospital prison?

But she didn't know this. At the time she claimed prayer cured her.

if I was a millionaire I would never risk my wealth to do some crazy staging

You might if you were in an absolute panic and desperate for a way to coverup for your wife or son.

 

[Ambitioned]

Where are the creases? Where are the signs of the parents clutching the note, reading word for word?, where are the parents fingerprints?

Where are the tears? If I read such a note it would be full of my tears and fingerprints. Js.

 

[Sunnymystery]

My brother did not hurt that little girl what the tabloids are saying is slander and lies

 

[icedtea4me]

*snip*But she didn't know this. At the time she claimed prayer cured her.*snip*

With "claimed" being the operative word here.

 

[flourish]

My brother did not hurt that little girl what the tabloids are saying is slander and lies

Hello and welcome. To whom are you referring, exactly?

 

[BBB167893]

Why? Why would he go through all that trouble to stage the crime and prevent attention on BR, only to illuminate attention on PR? Seems illogical to me.

Last ditch insurance, maybe?

 

[BBB167893]

Most of your ideas are more or less silly keeping in mind Patsy was deathly sick.

That's news to me. I'm pretty sure she wasn't deathly sick then.

She was dead in less than 10 years. What could she expect saying she murdered her daughter? 5-10 years in a hospital prison?

Let's say that your right. If she thought she was dying, I'm pretty sure she would not want to spend that time in any kind of prison walls, hospital or otherwise.

This staging is too crazy in a situation she could just get everything on herself giving her family easy life without any risk.

Tell me why not to use this simple solution? Any US or any reasons at all to not use this simple and common solution?

Somehow, Patsy didn't strike me as the "heroic sacrifice" type.

 

[BBB167893]

if I was a millionaire I would never risk my wealth to do some crazy staging without being near 100% sure it will go better than an easier option. [edit] You are suggesting using a million to buy tickets for a lottery having a million grand total. My sense of the situation only.

You're forgetting one thing: I don't think Patsy necessarily knew that Boulder was the soft-touch capital of the US. She may well have thought that the law in Boulder was just as tough as the law where she was from.

I am trying to understand all reasons lying behind different theories and a way this case was going earlier and is going now.

An admirable goal.