Ramsey house for sale again

[Montjoy]

I hope y'all will forgive me as this is somewhat off-topic, but I hope it is still on-point, even though it has nothing to do with the Ramseys. I do most of my work in the high arctic, which is a great geographic expanse with a handful of small towns, all of which are north of the treeline, and none of which is connected to any other by road. The food and resource costs are 3-5 times what we pay down here, and so much of what folks eat is hunted or fished -- and they do have access to some very good country food -- fish and meat, berries and eggs in season, up there.

Back to the subject of conversation, life can be fairly risky in the arctic, and many die of accident, drowning or misadventure, or exposure given the weather and terrain. I was in a hamlet some time ago when someone had drowned in a lake about 30km from where she lived. There was a funeral in the hamlet -- and for what it's worth, funerals pretty much shut down the hamlets for half of the day -- but there was also a second service lakeside where she drowned.

I will not recall if it was a Catholic, Anglican, or some sort of Evangelist service (most hamlets, however small, have at least 3 churches -- and all of them do the same sort of thing), but the point of the service was to say "Hey lake, it was not your fault that someone died in you. These things happen, and you should still be seen as a source of fish and/or fresh water in the future. People should still be able to use and enjoy you." The lake was then blessed and/or spiritually cleansed.

Myself, I'm not the least bit religious or magical, but I did appreciate the ritual. It also reminded me that there could be many reasons to distance bad events from physical space, inasmuch as we shouldn't want to ignore the potential that spaces have for the future.

Sorry for the mainly OT story, and best wishes.

 

[bettybaby00]

I hope y'all will forgive me as this is somewhat off-topic, but I hope it is still on-point, even though it has nothing to do with the Ramseys. I do most of my work in the high arctic, which is a great geographic expanse with a handful of small towns, all of which are north of the treeline, and none of which is connected to any other by road. The food and resource costs are 3-5 times what we pay down here, and so much of what folks eat is hunted or fished -- and they do have access to some very good country food -- fish and meat, berries and eggs in season, up there.

Back to the subject of conversation, life can be fairly risky in the arctic, and many die of accident, drowning or misadventure, or exposure given the weather and terrain. I was in a hamlet some time ago when someone had drowned in a lake about 30km from where she lived. There was a funeral in the hamlet -- and for what it's worth, funerals pretty much shut down the hamlets for half of the day -- but there was also a second service lakeside where she drowned.

I will not recall if it was a Catholic, Anglican, or some sort of Evangelist service (most hamlets, however small, have at least 3 churches -- and all of them do the same sort of thing), but the point of the service was to say "Hey lake, it was not your fault that someone died in you. These things happen, and you should still be seen as a source of fish and/or fresh water in the future. People should still be able to use and enjoy you." The lake was then blessed and/or spiritually cleansed.

Myself, I'm not the least bit religious or magical, but I did appreciate the ritual. It also reminded me that there could be many reasons to distance bad events from physical space, inasmuch as we shouldn't want to ignore the potential that spaces have for the future.

Sorry for the mainly OT story, and best wishes.

Interesting story...it doesn't surprise me as I would think the lifestyle led by the people there has a strong foundation of respect for the land and environment in which they live. Something sadly lacking in most other urban/suburban areas.

 

[Frigga]

I think that was a beautiful story Montjoy. I liked the idea that- Hey, it really wasn't the houses fault, and there was joy and still the potential for much joy to come in the house. Thanks for that!

 

[DeeDee249]

People die everywhere. Lakes, the oceans, swimming pools. There have been battles fought, fires, mass murders. Very negative deaths like massacres, battles, etc. can leave a negative psychic imprint. But these usually do not affect people living on that site. Movies like "Poltergeist" (where houses were built over a cemetery- the builders were supposed to have moved the graves and didn't) kind of sensationalize this kind of thing. Strange deaths associated with the cast of the movie add to the creepiness factor -the little actress who portrayed Carol Ann ("they're BAAAAACK") died an untimely and fairly sudden death of an intestinal blockage not long after making those movies.
I had read long ago that the first people to live in JB's home after the Rs never reported any paranormal or negative happenings- except for the gawkers and curiosity seekers who would take pictures or trespass. That was why the address was changed. But the house is too recognizable, so I don't know if that really helped.

 

[Daisy1975]

Just an interesting question:
Would you buy a house where there was a murder, suicide, death or signs of paranormal activity reported?
(I hope I can ask this)

I would have to take this on a case by case basis. It sounds silly, but I could live in a home where a crime took place easier if the perpetrator had been caught and the case was solved. If not, my imagination might get the best of me, and I would worry that whoever committed the offense might return to the home.

There is another cold murder case (a whole family killed) that I follow that took place in Aurora, Colorado in 1984. That house has essentially been unchanged in appearance (except for carpet and cosmetic changes I am guessing) since the crime took place. I used to drive past it frequently on the way to work, and was happy to see that there is a family living and thriving there. Again though, the perpetrator has never been caught, and I can't help but wonder if that family and the others who lived there before are ever afraid he might return?

 

[Tawny]

If I fell in love with a certain house due to space, layout, etc etc, it wouldn't matter to me what that structure's past was.

 

[Cherry]

I live in a home turn of the century only two owners Prev. The first owner and builder of the home, his daughter killed herself in a very nasty public way. Not in the house, but I do believe that her life in this house led to what she did. So I dont believe in netherworlds, religions, or ghosts but I do believe that bad energy could be left behind. I used to really believe in things like this but as I grew up my views became sealed in cement regarding these things. esp ghosts.
I think because of abuse, she ended up in a wheelchair. She then became ill and rolled her wheelchair off the 2nd story old hospital in our town, to her death. But she grew up in my home. I don't think she lived a happy life in this home. Sometimes I find things buried really deep on our property. Cup sets. Things that shouldn't be buried. Intact. It's very strange. But I don't hold any ghostly attributions to these things or sounds i hear in our house, it's just very old and sometimes it settles.

 

[allysasaurus]

I would totally buy this house if i had the money. All sadness aside, its the crime of the century. just to be able to say i live in her house would be cool. Say thats exploitation of the death of a six year old but hey...
Im sooooo not the only one that would want to live there. People drive up to the house and make out infront of it. (It doesnt make sence to me why the hell it turned into a "lovers lane")..... id imagine a lot of ghost hunters would show up but making out with eachother is kind of weird.

 

[rachaellouise]

I don't think I could live in a house knowing a gruesome murder happened inside, especially of a child!


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[rachaellouise]

I live in a home turn of the century only two owners Prev. The first owner and builder of the home, his daughter killed herself in a very nasty public way. Not in the house, but I do believe that her life in this house led to what she did. So I dont believe in netherworlds, religions, or ghosts but I do believe that bad energy could be left behind. I used to really believe in things like this but as I grew up my views became sealed in cement regarding these things. esp ghosts.
I think because of abuse, she ended up in a wheelchair. She then became ill and rolled her wheelchair off the 2nd story old hospital in our town, to her death. But she grew up in my home. I don't think she lived a happy life in this home. Sometimes I find things buried really deep on our property. Cup sets. Things that shouldn't be buried. Intact. It's very strange. But I don't hold any ghostly attributions to these things or sounds i hear in our house, it's just very old and sometimes it settles.

Maybe there should be a thread on this, I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on the paranormal, ghosts, energy etc and experiences!

I personally believe the energy people leave behind as well as their souls can become trapped, which means forces can move things around, physical and verbal actions in this world etc. our town is famous for being the centre of "straw hat making" and our house was part of the hat factory. I believe this was when slaves and working conditions were not good and a lot of people were abused and worked to injury or even death and have felt bad energy and had experiences, especially as a child growing up, that have cemented my view of the paranormal.


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[BoldBear]

I'm new to the case, but have tried to get the spacial relationships of the 1996 house down in my head. I've walked the house in my imagination, gone back to photos, the layout, and corrected my misconceptions. I also walked many floor plans in my youth and I can't explain the odd feelings I got from some homes. Today, there are some spaces I walk into and something just feels wrong. This home would be one of those spaces even without the murder. Strangely enough, the places I used to explore that gave me the creeps seemed to be some of the hardest homes to sell.

 

[887sMtreme]

Today, there are some spaces I walk into and something just feels wrong.

Sounds like you would be responsive to the philosophy of Feng Shui. Some spaces make you feel uncomfortable because of unpleasant wall angles, colors, furniture placement, weird (or no) lighting, scents given off by floor coverings and so many things. I doubt anything paranormal is involved, although if you are aware of a house being the site, or on the site, of a horrible crime, that certainly has to color your feelings.

 

[DeeDee249]

Maybe there should be a thread on this, I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on the paranormal, ghosts, energy etc and experiences!

I personally believe the energy people leave behind as well as their souls can become trapped, which means forces can move things around, physical and verbal actions in this world etc. our town is famous for being the centre of "straw hat making" and our house was part of the hat factory. I believe this was when slaves and working conditions were not good and a lot of people were abused and worked to injury or even death and have felt bad energy and had experiences, especially as a child growing up, that have cemented my view of the paranormal.


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I absolutely believe this. A violent death can leave an "imprint"- a psychic one. This can also be felt in areas where mass deaths have occurred- for example battlefields. Suicides are well-known for leaving negativity behind. Sometimes a soul becomes earthbound as well- unwilling to move beyond Earth's physical plane. Sometimes they are afraid to move on- because of fear of punishment, or other reasons. Sometimes they just don't want to go. I've been interacting with the dead since I'm a kid. I always pray for souls that are earthbound when I encounter them. Several years ago, we were invited to visit my daughter's in-laws, who owned a Victorian house on Buzzards Bay in Massachusetts. Immediately upon entering the huge center hall, I felt a familiar "high". I always feel exhilaration in the presents of spirit. I did't say anything, because a house that old is bound to have someone hanging around. We were given the first floor bedroom, with its own bath. In bygone days, that room would have been given to the butler. The family rooms were one flight up a beautiful staircase with huge stained glass windows, and then a half-flight up more servants' rooms. The woodwork, doorknobs, hardware and gas lamps (since electrified) were all beautiful and lavish in the family part of the house, and plain in the servants' quarters. Up a steep flight were more servants' rooms, smaller and in the hottest part of the house- up in the turrets; likely for the kitchen and laundry staff, etc. There was a hierarchy for staff in those days.
After putting our luggage in our room, my husband joined me on the veranda where everyone was. I went back to the room a few moments later to use the bathroom and noticed our luggage unpacked, laid out on the bed, and hung in the closet. When I went back outside, I told our hostess that she hadn't needed to unpack for us, I would have done it, but I was also puzzled how she could have done it, since she hadn't left that veranda. I saw my daughter and son-in-law exchange a look, and when I questioned them, they said they hadn't wanted to frighten us, but the house was haunted, they felt it was the butler, and that had been his room.
Later that night, I saw his "shadow" on the wall- in a way that NO light outside (because there was no light) could have produced. My husband said that he had actually seen that man in the foyer when we arrived- dressed in gray striped pants and a waistcoat, older gentleman, balding, who seemed quite shocked to be seen! As he turned and walked away from us, he gradually disappeared!
The next day, when my daughter and i were alone in the house, we were upstairs and every single door downstairs slammed shut. Now, we were on the water and there was a lot of breeze- bur EVERY door??? When we ran down stairs, we saw that all of the doors were, in fact, open. At that moment, the alarm clock in my room (the butlers' room) went off, even though I had never set it.
I prayed for that soul, that he understand where he had to go and that he could visit whenever he wanted. My daughter said the house felt "lighter" after that, and although he DID continue to visit, it was not an overbearing presence or heavy feeling as it had been before.

 

[BoldBear]

I love a good ghost story. Thanks for that.

The 2nd most famous murder mystery in history has tainted that home. Even if you don't believe in spirits, I can imagine the tourists and the looks and odd conversations from the locals. "Oh, you live in that home. Have you ever thought of reopening that door? Have you had a seance?" And then there's the whole idea of having friends over. The unwanted attention would be torture. I'd invite my friends over to watch a video. The next thing they're telling their friends that they spent last night watching a movie in the Ramsey home. They can't remember what the movie was because they kept looking over their shoulder and kept trying to get a look at the basement.

Only time can diminish what happened in that home.

 

[DeeDee249]

I love a good ghost story. Thanks for that.

The 2nd most famous murder mystery in history has tainted that home. Even if you don't believe in spirits, I can imagine the tourists and the looks and odd conversations from the locals. "Oh, you live in that home. Have you ever thought of reopening that door? Have you had a seance?" And then there's the whole idea of having friends over. The unwanted attention would be torture. I'd invite my friends over to watch a video. The next thing they're telling their friends that they spent last night watching a movie in the Ramsey home. They can't remember what the movie was because they kept looking over their shoulder and kept trying to get a look at the basement.

Only time can diminish what happened in that home.

One thing I can tell you- JB is most certainly NOT hanging around that house. Children are rarely earthbound spirits, and those who die violent deaths, including murders, are often out of their physical bodies before that happens and do not feel their deaths. From the moment they are free, they have no use for, or attachment to, that physical body. If murdered, they do not care at all whether their killer is found or punished because they know atonement is certain, and life here is not measured in the same time frame as on the Other Side. She left this world an innocent spirit, untainted by fear or hatred.

 

[allysasaurus]

One thing I can tell you- JB is most certainly NOT hanging around that house. Children are rarely earthbound spirits, and those who die violent deaths, including murders, are often out of their physical bodies before that happens and do not feel their deaths. From the moment they are free, they have no use for, or attachment to, that physical body. If murdered, they do not care at all whether their killer is found or punished because they know atonement is certain, and life here is not measured in the same time frame as on the Other Side. She left this world an innocent spirit, untainted by fear or hatred.

I think thats why i wouldnt mind living in her house. Id love to walk the same steps she may have..... this probably weird but i feel like walking thru a house gives a better grasp on the case.
Its a shame the cellar room is blocked off now. Id go down there.... i want to see if i can climb thru the window in the basement. Put myself in the "killers" shoes.... would you turn on this light in a natural way walking thru a room?
Does the floor creak in certain areas, what it sounds like when someone walks on the upper floor?....
Lots of things you just cant know by looking at floor plans and photos.

 

[BoldBear]

I live in Denver and finally got a chance to drive by the house coming from an event in the canyon. The house really does look small. I imagined it small but not that small. The side butler's pantry stands out like a sore thumb because it doesn't match the architecture. It is closer to the next door neighbor's house than I expected. The next door neighbor has a great view of the butler's pantry side of the house.

The living room wouldn't have been very big at all and the solarium smaller.

We only drove by it twice. I hate to think what the neighbors have put-up with. I wanted to respect their feelings, but get an idea of this place I've been studying.

This is a neighborhood with many small children so if you're ever there, please drive slowly and carefully.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I live in Denver and finally got a chance to drive by the house coming from an event in the canyon. The house really does look small. I imagined it small but not that small. The side butler's pantry stands out like a sore thumb because it doesn't match the architecture. It is closer to the next door neighbor's house than I expected. The next door neighbor has a great view of the butler's pantry side of the house.

The living room wouldn't have been very big at all and the solarium smaller.

We only drove by it twice. I hate to think what the neighbors have put-up with. I wanted to respect their feelings, but get an idea of this place I've been studying.

This is a neighborhood with many small children so if you're ever there, please drive slowly and carefully.

The house is 6800 square feet. It does look small from the front. There's an aerial photo of it that shows a more accurate picture of its size.

 

[BoldBear]

The Ramsey home has 1 large master bedroom, 4 full sized bedrooms, 5 full baths, 3 half baths, living room, sun room, top study, lower study, dining room, breakfast room, kitchen, butler's pantry, utility area with stacked washer/dryer on the 2nd floor, kids play room/tv room, mud room, two car garage, two stairways, and what I would consider to be a half basement.

The hallways on the first floor are separate from the rooms (you don't cross through a room to get from one place to another except for the kitchen). They go from the front entrance through the kitchen and turn across to the back patio entrance. There's also a full hallway for the butler's pantry. This is a lot of real estate on the 1st floor just used for hallways and not rooms.

So when I said the house was smaller than I expected, what I should have said was that the rooms are smaller. There are a lot of little rooms in that 6,800 square foot space.

My opinion is that the house is smaller than I expected. The photos and videos make everything look bigger.

 

[elannia]

I was just curious, since the house was remodeled going downstairs in the basement there is an iron scroll at the bottom, so would that scroll be at what was once the bathroom when the Ramseys lived there? I have read that the wine cellar was blocked off but I am just trying to get a better image of the scroll(if im not mistaken it says cellar underneath) and basement