Random Thoughts and Discussion Ideas#5 About the Case

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I apologize if this has been brought up before.....If forensics can show that Caylee was dead before July 16th, It would show that Casey was lying when she told invesigators that she had just talked to Caylee that day..And as I understand, there were no calls on her phone at the time she said she talked to Caylee. How can she lie her way out of that. I think that she deliberately was drawing this out so that the decomposotion would be so bad as to not show a cause of death, and therefore have more opportunity for reasonable doubt.
 
There is a story Casey could tell that would guarantee reasonable doubt. She could have leaked bits and pieces of it, but she hasn’t so far.

The most important piece is that she was working in the Orlando escort business and supporting her parents with the money. That is easy to conject. Neither parent had a job that could support the life they were living.

Early on, Cindy called Casey a thief. Casey responded by writing, “What is given can be taken away.” This is where Casey could have said, “I was working as a prostitute and supporting my parents. All the money in their account was money I gave them.”

Jose Baez said not to talk. But thanks to his advice we see Casey as cold. The advice not to talk seemed proper because people don’t come out and admit they are a prostitute; but taking his advice was the worst thing she could have done. It set the stage for who the world thinks Casey is. Rather than being a hooker who is supporting her parents, she is cold calculating and never reveals the truth: which was actually Jose Baez’s advice.

It’s not hard to see she was a professional in the Orlando sex industry. Why didn’t the press research it and reveal that part of the story?

The answer is if you are a super intelligent bad guy, you know how that part of the story will get her off.

If she is associated with organized crime, when the body appears out of thin air you say, That is the kind of thing organized crime does.

You have reasonable doubt.

While she was working for organized crime, she was giving all her money to her parents. She is a hooker with a heart of gold, which puts her up there with Mary Magdalene.

Now the defense needs to start revealing that part of the story. They don’t have to do anything but tell Casey’s side of the story. Forget how many sheets or plastic bags found with the body were matches with sheets and plastic bags in George and Cindy’s house. For months the police carried van loads of stuff out of their house. Someone had plenty of sheets and plastic bags to choose from. Is anyone involved with organized crime working as a police officer? But according to her lawyer so far, this story does not involve organized crime. It’s about Casey and the nanny she said took Caylee. That is a sure loser for the defense, whereas bringing organized crime into it has reasonable doubt written all over it.

If the Dream Team continues to keep prostitution and organized crime out of the story, they are protecting organized crime for some reason. But there is too much money flowing. The money: Casey’s prostitution money to support her parents, and the money to hire the Dream Team is coming from organized crime and maybe someone more powerful than organized crime.

The adoption scenario is about how she used the people she was working with to have Caylee adopted, so Casey would have control and full access. She wouldn’t just give Caylee to her grandmother. There was a moral tension between Casey and her mother. Not giving Caylee to her grandmother was Casey’s big mistake.

Casey’s only crime was that she had Caylee adopted through shady people. This was because Casey wanted full access, not through her mother who was continuously critical of Casey.
 
If I were the owner of the property where little Caylee was found . . .

I would plant grass (now that it's been cleared) and flowers and turn it into a park-like setting. Perhaps with some benches and a fountain.

It would be much more pleasant that way, instead of letting it go back to being dense and overgrown, especially for the people that live in that neighborhood and the children that pass by every day on their way to school.

It could be the Caylee Marie Anthony Memorial Garden.

Just a random thought . . .
 
I am from nearby the Orlando area and had business in the Orlando today so I thought after I was finished I would take a tour of the crime scmene. I am close follower of the case and participated in the November searches.

I choose to park my vehicle at a convenience store on the corner of Curry Ford and Chickasaw and walk to the site. I heard some mumbling somewhere about hassles parking near the scene so I decided to do this instead of worrying about the parking. Needless to say, it was a long walk, longer than I had estimated. The weather today though was beautiful so not a problem.

I had known before, and the walk solidified this idea, that pretty much the entire surrounding area is low-middle income housing, with the A's house fairly in the middle range of what I saw on my walk. All the neighborhoods from where I parked to the actual scene where what I would term 'nice'. By that I mean I saw no cars on blocks, or ratty exteriors, or really bad lawns, etc. None. Interspersed here and there where a few upper middle class homes, and past Suburban drive there is a newer section with upper middle apts and homes. Orlando has more than one neighborhood like this where there is a mixture, in an integrated fashion, of houses with mixed income levels.

I had actually parked South of Suburban first and started to walk from that direction but needed to pee so walked back to my car. Along that walk I past several open fields and noticed trails into them here and there and got the impression that these where formed from people entering from the sidewalk prior searches, some months ago. I saw a few wild elephant ear plants here and there that show up also in the crime scene photos. These plants are dark green are prominent near the wood fence. At this time, no water anywhere but significant evidence of past standing water. Joggers down the sidewalks.

When I finally got Suburban, I could see all the way from Chickasaw some media vehicles across a retention pond perhaps 150 meters distant. At the time there where two of them. I rounded the corner of Suburban and Chickasaw and the impression registered on me, and as reported by the media, of how close everything is relative to my imaginings. It takes only about one minute on foot to traverse from Chickasaw/Suburban to the crime scene.

I past a News 13 reported on the opposite side of the road from the crime scene on the sidewalk. He says nothing and I pass him. I study the retention pond water level and note just with my eyes it is about the same elevation as the crime scene some 20 meters in front and to the left. There is a concrete drain right off the sidewalk the empties into the pond and where this pipe originates from is a mystery, but the angle suggest it's source is across the road near the crime scene perhaps connected via the storm drain. From the map perspective, the drain orientation is southeast to northwest.

The sidewalk is the standard 'small' width sidewalk, perhaps 3 feet wide. These are not normally the size sidewalks where there is a lot of jogging activity (it would be wider). I walk past the crime scene on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the road. In the back of my mind I picture the psychics video and connect it to what I am seeing now. The storm drain cover is significant landmark, there is one on both sides of the street and on the opposite side the manhole cover is less than 5 meters away from the crime scene. From what I can tell the psychic got out 25 meters up the road from the scene. I see a grassy area near there that looks like the place where she got out with the dog. I note that in her video the dog starts to act up a nearly the exact spot of the crime scene (where the kid say turn up the air, the dog is getting sick).

I loop back around when past the crime scene and get on the opposite side of the road. I study the state of the woods say five meters off the road. The woods start in earnest just two meters off the road and I can see into the woods a good 20 meters in places (now, maybe not in summer). There is loads of trash in the woods; I see the ubiquitous beer bottle, a beach umbrella, some sort of plastic bin, a plastic laundry basket before I lose interest. If there some sort of significance attached to a solitary plastic bag, that is just BS. If I randomly jumped into the woods there and fell over I would probably land on one.

There were what looked like water marks on the tree trunks, more like 18 inches rather than the waist deep the neighborhood kid reported. When I approached the crime scene, it looked as if a bush hog had scraped the entire area clean. There was some construction blocks nearby where I think the remains where found, and a small memorial. I did not look at the memorial that carefully.

I did note that pulling of the road here would be a dicey proposition. Any car say 5 meters to 2 meters in front of the man hole cover would get stuck in on the dropoff that occurs just. The curb is too high at the manhole cover and necks down maybe a meter on either side. So, it seems like there is about a 3 meter swath just past the manhole where you could back into the woods with a car and get out without getting stuck. The only way to do that would be during daylight, otherwise you risk getting stuck.

To me, the disposal HAD to be done by just pulling off to the side of the road. On the ground, even near the woods, that position would expose the vehicle to line of site of several homes and even as far as Chickasaw across the retention pond. It had to be a panic decision it seems to me to risk doing this, especially during daylight, or someone exceptionally daring. Also, it would be impossible to simply sling the load ... it had to be carried in, ny guess from a rabbit trail near the tree that had the police tape on it.

I decided despite my feet to walk down HopeSpring and see the A home. Again, NICE neighborhood. Mature trees, and not just palms; neat yards; quiet. I did notice dogs barking near the corner and for a moment that caught my attention (could you park at the crime scene without setting this off?)

My impression of the home, although having saw it numerous times on TV, was significant in that I felt 'non-plussed'. The exterior, relative to the others in the neighborhood, seemed only 'average' in terms of it's upkeep; the grass was middle of the road and there was a functioning basketball goal on the driveway, net intact (who uses this now, I wondered). The missing posters are still in the front door. This seemed to contrast with the pin neat pictures of the interior that I saw on the internet. If G was doing the outside and C the inside, this impression solidifies a lot of what I heard on threads concerning G. Nothing bad, just nothing that stood out either. There was one new truck on the lawn.

What struck me after walking back from the home was the vibe I got about the relative LACK of INTEREST I felt in the neighborhood. Given that the entire world knows about this, I suspect that some guy in Germany knows more about it than the guy two doors down. The effort of the A's with the sign on the front door, seemed so not even half-assed. I did not see a similar sign anywhere else. Contrasting, the memorial, what remains, on Suburban and Hopespring, is a work of art, especially the artifacts of a religious bent. I did not start bawling or anything, but it to me was artful and powerful simultaneous. A got a tinge of what I felt when I visited Dealy [sp?] in Dallas. I notice a certain reverence when people approached the crime scene.

Glad I made the trip.
 
If you aren't a write for your profession I think you need to change jobs. :clap:

I seriously felt as if I was on that walk with you.

Thank you

:blowkiss:
 
thanks for sharing your experience with us...it has to be different once you are actually at the scene, than just hearing about it on TV or here. especially the scale of things.

I do agree with you that I don't think the bag was just thrown in there, say from the car or road...I do think it was placed.
 
I know that anytime my child was naked, be it a diaper change, or bathtime, I always felt that he was vulnerable. I don't know a better way to explain it. He was literally exposed and (I felt) emotionally exposed.

To hear that Caylee was not clothed when she was found brings up an even more emotional reaction from me.

Exposed

Vulnerable

There was no way for the remains to have been clothed, given the ME's statement that it had been completely disarticulated. The bones were scattered over a large area. There is no indication then that she was naked when discarded.
 
Alpha Leader, thank you so much for sharing. And welcome to WS!
 
thanks for sharing your experience with us...it has to be different once you are actually at the scene, than just hearing about it on TV or here. especially the scale of things.

I do agree with you that I don't think the bag was just thrown in there, say from the car or road...I do think it was placed.

I have been to the scene myself (yesterday) and you are right to say that the bag had to be walked in not just flung from the car. Now that the area is totally cleared out and you can see the slope of the landscape a car even if it could get in would get stuck.
 
If I were the owner of the property where little Caylee was found . . .

I would plant grass (now that it's been cleared) and flowers and turn it into a park-like setting. Perhaps with some benches and a fountain.

It would be much more pleasant that way, instead of letting it go back to being dense and overgrown, especially for the people that live in that neighborhood and the children that pass by every day on their way to school.

It could be the Caylee Marie Anthony Memorial Garden.

Just a random thought . . .

That's a nice idea but probably not possible with the flooding and the rattlesnakes.
 
WE ALL KNOW THAT THERE IS TRUTH INTERWINED WITH ALL OF KC'S LIES......
I know that some people might not want to here this BUT.......WHAT IF:
KC did have an accomplice and that is who she's trying to protect? (maybe she killed Caylee and had a man help her to dispose of the body. And this man did threaten KC so she would not implicate him in the crime. Maybe he helped her come up with this Nanny story.)
WHAT IF: There was really a script. A script between her and the man that helped participate in this crime after the fact (disposing of the body). What if the script was about what to tell police for 30 days as KC said. So I am just wondering why 30 days? did they know the body would be found after that? 30 days counting back from Aug 11 (when meter reader stumbles upon a trash bag so suspicious that he calls LE) is July 12, a saturday. We know that at this time she was still trying to come up with a story to tell her parents and the police.
WHAT IF......Timer55 does have a significant meaning in all of this? To me, TIMER would mean TIME and 55 could mean days. That would say to me that there was something about having TIME = 55 days. 55 days counting back from Aug 11 (the day the meter stumbles upon the grey bag that was so suspicious that he had to call LE) is JUNE 16! The day that GA last saw KC and Caylee leave the house was JUNE 16th. That was the last day Caylee was seen alive.

Now I have assumed from the beginning that KC was not smart enough to act alone in all of this. Who would help her? Tony? Jesse? The meter reader?

It was so ironic that the meter reader stumbles across this bag that he is so suspicious of on the same day that the physics are out in the same area and they don't find anything. The first call the meter reader made on Aug 11, the deputies came out and he was GONE. Why didn't he stick around? This man then calls again, making 3 calls total. Then this same man goes back in December to where he saw the bag and then decides to pick it up and a skull rolls out.... Maybe it's just me, but that just doesn't sound right to me.....
I read somewhere on this thread that the meter reader said something about living on Hopespring DR? Wouldn't that be something!
 
If Casey was in the Orlando escort business, then she would be involved with shady people. The press has neglected to report she was working as an escort, and supporting her parents with the money.

When you realize she was involved in what is essentially organized crime; the truly odd stuff that all happens with perfect timing starts to make sense.
 
I've also thought that KC may have had thoughts about doing away with her mother...and then she might have realized taking Caylee away from her would be the most painful thing she could do to her. These two had a very volatile relationship, IMO.

I think they had a terrible fight the night of Father's Day, when KC wasn't around to go to the nursing home with Cindy and Caylee. Maybe Cindy told her she needed to settle down and start taking care of her child more, now that she was getting a little bigger, and KC felt her freedom was really slipping away. And Caylee was starting to really talk so she could now "tell" on mommy. So she takes Caylee away from grandma for a little while, and when she realized there was no way she could take care of Caylee on her own and she would be tied to her mother forever, she got rid of the "problem". This is basically the theory I'm going with.
 
Or, if she was supporting her mother and father by being an escort, then that could create the tension we've seen.

That's easy to find out and prove. Casey needs to tell all, no matter how sleazy it is. Her life depends on it.

If she was working in that business, then everything Casey, Cindy, and George said to each other, and did makes sense. Why has this part of the story been covered up? Why are we told she just partied for fun?
 
Great point! What a contradiction... Casey remaining silent and using her own "resources" to try to find her child so as not to jeopardize Caylee or CA/GA's safety, yet calmly telling Cindy to go ahead and call police, with no warning or discussion of the danger she felt the family would be if LE is called.

Cindy wanted Casey to produce Caylee, Casey couldn't talk her way out of it, so Cindy called Orlando Police. I don't recall reading anything about Casey telling Cindy to call the police. When in the car, with Casey, heading home from TonE's, Cindy was on hold while Orlando PD was transferring her over to OCSO, you can hear Casey telling Cindy "give me one more day" and Cindy was having none of that and said, "I've already given you a month." Isn't that the first 911 call?

Did Casey tell her mom to go ahead and call the police with Amy still in the car?

I'm so confused. :waitasec:
 
If I were the owner of the property where little Caylee was found . . .

I would plant grass (now that it's been cleared) and flowers and turn it into a park-like setting. Perhaps with some benches and a fountain.

It would be much more pleasant that way, instead of letting it go back to being dense and overgrown, especially for the people that live in that neighborhood and the children that pass by every day on their way to school.

It could be the Caylee Marie Anthony Memorial Garden.

Just a random thought . . .

Someone posted a map of the site recently that looked like a plat with the property lines. It appears most of that land back there is actually part of the backyards of the houses next to it.

Would you want a public memorial garden in your backyard?
 
There has been alot of talk, and debate about the family reaction to caylees diappearance and her now confirmed murder.

Many people have said "thats not how normal innocent people react or behave". Others have said they are certain they would not do the same if in the situation.

I know we have had a member share her own personal experiences with inter-family murder, and I am greatful for her imput and insight. :blowkiss:

What we do know is each and every murder is unique. No two experiences are the same.
We know that as far as this case is concerned, it is also a unique situation, with not a lot of basis for comparison.

So last night I used my friend google to find out more.
There is forum I came across for the loved ones of murder victims, which includes a thread for inter-family MVS.

What I found most interesting is that it seems it is not uncommon for the mother of the murderer to maintain a level of denial.

For one mother it took 10 yrs to believe her son was guilty of murder, and to accept that he had killed another family member. Emotional guilt plays a large part in this.

Some members cannot forgive their relatives. Others heal in forgiveness. It shows how a situation like this shatters the bond families had and leaves the survivors torn apart.

A common theme I noticed was the trauma these people endure at the judgement of others in regard to their personal choices and reactions, particularly by people who have not lived their nightmare.

I read statistics and reports, but I feel that these humbling personal stories offer the best insight.
 
Cindy wanted Casey to produce Caylee, Casey couldn't talk her way out of it, so Cindy called Orlando Police. I don't recall reading anything about Casey telling Cindy to call the police. When in the car, with Casey, heading home from TonE's, Cindy was on hold while Orlando PD was transferring her over to OCSO, you can hear Casey telling Cindy "give me one more day" and Cindy was having none of that and said, "I've already given you a month." Isn't that the first 911 call?

Did Casey tell her mom to go ahead and call the police with Amy still in the car?

I'm so confused. :waitasec:

Amy had been dropped off by the time Cindy dug her claws into Casey and took her to the police station.
 
OneLostGrl,

Even the worst sinners are good most of the time. That's why they live in denial. They deny because they are good most of the time, and can't accept when they have been bad.

But to say a person's life can be completely dominated by horrible sin, and then she lives in total denial has to be incorrect. That can never happen because if a she accepts the norms of society, she doesn't live continuously breaking those norms and then continuously denying. That person spends most of her time living within the norms she accepts, but Casey never lives in the norms of society.

All the vibes people pick up from Casey is that she is a person who lives totally outside of society's values. And so, people feel they can accuse her of any level of violence or stupidity.

But what if she has her own value system? She markets her beauty for money, and then gives all her money to her parents. What if she is not constrained by what society believes, at all?

What if Casey was working as an escort, and her employees are organized crime. When she says to her mother after 31 days of Caylee missing, "Give me one more day to work this out", she is talking about dealing with people that she works with in organized crime. If she appears cool and even cold when dealing with those people, and if her parents don't fully accept the fact their daughter is supporting them by being a prostitute, well then, that produces all the emotions and situations we see from the Anthonys that most people can't understand.

George said to Larry King that he is in the security field: meaning, he is a secuity guard. And most recently he doesn't have a job. His daughter, a hooker, was supporting him. Now he's living off donations. Those people are totally outside of society's norm.

When you see them as normal, and then judge them as normal people acting unusually, you don't have the whole story. But when you see Casey as working for organized crime and by doing so she is supporting her father and mother, you realize they don't need a support group. They are a support group.
 
Amy had been dropped off by the time Cindy dug her claws into Casey and took her to the police station.

Thanks debs. I thought that Amy was already out of the car at that point, but I'm confused as to the claims that Casey "dared" Cindy to call the police. I don't recall any "dare" to call the police. My understanding was that Cindy picked up Casey from TonE's and insisted that Casey take her to Caylee at which point Casey kept insisting that Caylee was fine with the nanny and that she didn't want to bother her while she was ok and having a good time, at which point Cindy called BS on her story and drove her over to the Orlando PD while making her initial 911 call and the subsequent 911 calls with regard to Caylee after Orlando PD answered/transfered and told her to contact OCSO would be responding and sending a sheriff over to the house.

I guess I'm just asking where the "dare" came into this.
 
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