Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

[Donjeta]

I wouldn't be uncomfortable with Mr. Cosby being alone around any girls. Doesn't he have his own kids and grandkids? I didn't thank the original post because I didn't see it. But that said, I refuse to engage in this discussion. I have my own opinions on this and I will just keep those to myself.

What does the existence of his offspring have to do with it? I am unaware of any evidence that shows that people who procreated can't be sexual offenders.

 

[Donjeta]

There is a difference in immediately reporting something to the police and waiting 30 years to start talking about it in the media.

A big difference.

Yeah the delay is unfortunate in that the police can't go check the scene and if there are witnesses to the developments they might have died or become demented or forgotten all about it.

But I am not willing to jump to the conclusion that if someone didn't report they're a liar. It's a well established fact that many victims take a lot of time to file a complaint, if they ever do.


Would you immediately report a crime if you knew the perp is rich and powerful and has the best attorneys and it'll be all over the news and people will be saying that it's just your word against his and you're probably making it up and you can't prove it so people should just ignore what you said and assume you're lying until you can produce proof?

I'm not sure I would...

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yeah the delay is unfortunate in that the police can't go check the scene and if there are witnesses to the developments they might have died or become demented or forgotten all about it.

But I am not willing to jump to the conclusion that if someone didn't report they're a liar. It's a well established fact that many victims take a lot of time to file a complaint, if they ever do.


Would you immediately report a crime if you knew the perp is rich and powerful and has the best attorneys and it'll be all over the news and people will be saying that it's just your word against his and you're probably making it up and you can't prove it so people should just ignore what you said and assume you're lying until you can produce proof?

I'm not sure I would...

Yes I would. Rich isn't something that phases me. I have known some "famous" people in my life and that does not phase me either.. No they were not Bill Cosby famous.. but still..

I get that people don't report things for different reasons.. but to come out all these years later, I need more than their say so. Something that links this crime to him..

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't think this was the 70's with this one.. I have to go look but I thought it was more recent that that.. like 1995... ??? And I just don't see them letting a 15 yr old in for many reasons.. unless she lied about her age...

It was the 70s. I don't mean any disrespect but it seems to me you might want to acquaint yourself with what is being alleged.

I kinda doubt the Playboy mansion checked IDs at the door, particularly those of guests brought by Hugh Hefner's bestie Bill Cosby. The girls didn't just walk in the door. VIP Bill Cosby brought them.

According to what the accuser says, anyway.

 

[sunflowerchick]

What does the existence of his offspring have to do with it? I am unaware of any evidence that shows that people who procreated can't be sexual offenders.

To my knowledge, none of his own children or grandchildren are fearful of him or have even given any credence to any of these claims. To me, that speaks volumes. And didn't one of the young actors from the Cosby show speak out in his defense as well?

Innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law. Fortunately we do not live in a country where someone's reputation can be tarnished, ruined or otherwise sullied based on the claims of another (tongue firmly planted in cheek). It is really sad to me that this man has been tried and judged in the media and it is unfair.

I have said it before in other threads and I will say it again. Discussing possibilities and sleuthing cases DOES NOT mean directly accusing, calling names or otherwise slandering those who have not been charged or convicted. In fact, it is counter to sleuthing. Once you have made up your mind to what occurred, you are no longer open to other possibilities and as a result, you may miss key facts even those in your favor.

 

[Donjeta]

Yes I would. Rich isn't something that phases me. I have known some "famous" people in my life and that does not phase me either.. No they were not Bill Cosby famous.. but still..

I get that people don't report things for different reasons.. but to come out all these years later, I need more than their say so. Something that links this crime to him..

What would that be? What would convince you?

I think Bill Cosby famous would make a difference for me... because you just know that he'd launch an attack and I'd very likely be the one coming out with my dignity in shreds, and everyone would know.

 

[Nova]

I don't know if this is okay or not as a link.. So if it needs to be edited I understand..

But this is what I am talking about. We have launched into this society where the women now is never lying and we know that is just factually not true. We can not just assume someone is telling the truth about something so despicable. The only way to protect the real victims is to make sure that all really are victims.

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...ns_why_must_be_pretend_they_never_happen.html

You've constructed a straw-man argument in your post. NOBODY here has claimed women never make false allegations. (Personally, I would find such a claim not only absurd but condescending to women, as if they were children incapable of lying.) In fact, it was a poster who believes some of the outcries who presented the data that as much as 10% of rape claims may be untrue.

Nobody is simply assuming that every claim against Cosby is true. But corroboration from other victims (and we are now talking about dozens) is one way to support a claim that can't be proven with physical evidence. Consistency of such claims (the drugs) is another. Simultaneous outcry (telling someone else at the time) is another and we have several examples of that among Cosby's accusers. Internal consistency (Does the alleged victim's story make sense?) is yet another. Knowledge of the rapes by third parties is still another.

All these forms of proof can be found among Cosby's alleged victims.

And despite what you say, some of the alleged victims DID report their rape, or attempted to do so, but were talked out of following through. At least one filed suit and received a settlement: not necessarily proof of Cosby's guilt, but hardly proof of his innocence either.

Demanding a state-of-the-art, 2014-level of scientific proof in cases dating from the 1970s and 1980s is, as others have pointed out, merely an exercise in excusing all rapes committed before this afternoon.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

What would that be? What would convince you?

Asked multiple times and still not answered concretely. I commend your persistence.

 

[Nova]

IT means that we should not assume they are telling the truth because it is not a court of law.. Only twitter and facebook. We have become a nation that convicts people without proof. It is not what this country was built on. IT is not what it should stand for.

(Emphasis added.) Oh, please. Do you think all those claims against the "tyrant", George III, were proven in a court of law?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

(Emphasis added.) Oh, please. Do you think all those claims against the "tyrant", George III, were proven in a court of law?

Well no because the law was on his side. That is not even close to the same thing. There is no doubt that englishmen here were persecuted and searched with no cause and taxed beyond measure. That is not even close to the same thing we are talking about here.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What would that be? What would convince you?

I think Bill Cosby famous would make a difference for me... because you just know that he'd launch an attack and I'd very likely be the one coming out with my dignity in shreds, and everyone would know.

When I see some evidence that proves these claims then I will consider it. but until then, or until there are charges, I am just not taking anyone's word for it.

 

[Donjeta]

To my knowledge, none of his own children or grandchildren are fearful of him or have even given any credence to any of these claims. To me, that speaks volumes. And didn't one of the young actors from the Cosby show speak out in his defense as well?

I haven't seen any interviews or quotes either pro or contra from Cosby's children and grandchildren? If there are some I'd be glad to read them but I don't think it's fair to put words in their mouths based on the absence of any comments.

But even if they came out to defend him it wouldn't prove anything to me really. It's possible that the children and grandchildren don't know anything about it. Bill Cosby is not being accused of incest or familial abuse here so it's quite possible that he could be nice to his own kids and fail to rape his grandkids and have a Hyde face come out when he's with aspiring models who are not related to him. Or the family might know about it but want to protect him anyway.

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/11/20/raven-simone-bill-cosby-rape-allegations/
Yes, Raven Symone said nothing untoward occurred but that doesn't really prove anything to me either. I'm sure even if he raped all the women who have come out now there are some females that he didn't have time or the inclination to rape. Furthermore, Raven Symone was quite a young child at the time she was in the Cosby Show, and no one's accused him of being a pedophile that I know of. All the women who have come forward were adults or teenagers at the time, not small children.

Innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law. Fortunately we do not live in a country where someone's reputation can be tarnished, ruined or otherwise sullied based on the claims of another (tongue firmly planted in cheek). It is really sad to me that this man has been tried and judged in the media and it is unfair.

Everybody is innocent in a court of law until proven guilty, including the ones who did it.

Presumption of innocence in a court of law does not mean that the society in general can't have their own opinions as to the guilt of people who have been accused of something even if they weren't convicted, it means that no one can't be convicted of a crime without following the legal standards.

I have said it before in other threads and I will say it again. Discussing possibilities and sleuthing cases DOES NOT mean directly accusing, calling names or otherwise slandering those who have not been charged or convicted. In fact, it is counter to sleuthing. Once you have made up your mind to what occurred, you are no longer open to other possibilities and as a result, you may miss key facts even those in your favor.

True but it cuts both ways I think... If you've made up your mind that no crime occurred and the people who say so are lying because it wasn't reported early enough or there are not enough DNA tests and police files or because you like the celebrity and that's why there's an unfair media assault on him or whatever it's just as easy to become blind.

 

[BirdycatNY]

I think it is self explanatory. Proof. Evidence of a crime. DNA. Something that proves the claim. There is a reason there is a statue of limitations on some crimes. What happens now is that someone can just keep accusing and instead of going through the proper channels, they just go to the press. I think after this much time, if you want to come out and accuse you need proof of the events in question.

I have a question b/c I know "proof, proof, proof" in rape may come down to he said/she said, right? Didn't Ms. Constrand allege she was drugged and raped but BC claimed it was consensual. Or did BC claim he never had sex with her? So in this case I'm guessing you think she "probably just regretted it" right? Of course it's horrible when someone is falsely accused...but let's not pretend that in rape cases it always comes down to DNA. Would it have been better if the alleged victims died from the drugs, would that give one more proof...you know cases where serial killers drugged victims, the horror and bad people. I know both people who have been falsely accused and who have been victims of rape, child abuse and being "roofied". Let LE thoroughly investigate the case and bring justice to these women if BC drugged these women and/or raped them or had his friends do it. Facts are essential. But I am not blinded by someone's fame to believe everyone is a leech...might be the opposite, where close circle feed star's indulgences b/c they're so powerful. jmo

 

[Nova]

I don't think this was the 70's with this one.. I have to go look but I thought it was more recent that that.. like 1995... ??? And I just don't see them letting a 15 yr old in for many reasons.. unless she lied about her age...

Or made herself up to look older and wasn't even asked. Once she was inside, people just assumed she was "of age". (Ask Rob Lowe.)

 

[Donjeta]

When I see some evidence that proves these claims then I will consider it. but until then, or until there are charges, I am just not taking anyone's word for it.

What everyone is trying to find out is, what would you consider to be evidence that proves these claims? After all this time there is not going to be anything much beyond people's words, his and theirs.

He still might have raped those people.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I have a question b/c I know "proof, proof, proof" in rape may come down to he said/she said, right? Didn't Ms. Constrand allege she was drugged and raped but BC claimed it was consensual. Or did BC claim he never had sex with her? So in this case I'm guessing you think she "probably just regretted it" right? Of course it's horrible when someone is falsely accused...but let's not pretend that in rape cases it always comes down to DNA. Would it have been better if the alleged victims died from the drugs, would that give one more proof...you know cases where serial killers drugged victims, the horror and bad people. I know both people who have been falsely accused and who have been victims of rape, child abuse and being "roofied". Let LE thoroughly investigate the case and bring justice to these women if BC drugged these women and/or raped them or had his friends do it. Facts are essential. But I am not blinded but someone's fame to believe everyone is a leech. It may be the opposite, where close circle feed into star's indulgences b/c they're so powerful and it gives them leverage over that star. jmo

He through her atty has called her a liar as of late in the news. He has been silent in a lot of the allegations but this one he has stepped out and made a statement of sorts.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What everyone is trying to find out is, what would you consider to be evidence that proves these claims? After all this time there is not going to be anything much beyond people's words, his and theirs.

That is just not enough for me to believe them. I think there is too much time and too many other motives at play at the moment.

 

[Nova]

BBM

No offense to you, Nova, but also previously stated on this thread and also conveniently disregarded by the proof demanders.

No offense taken. I knew I was echoing earlier posts, but I'm not conceding the argument just because they keep repeating their "no evidence" claim.

 

[Nova]

It is.. but alone it does not mean much. There has to be something to back it up or everyone's words or story would put everyone in jail on just that.. JA has been telling us stories for years.. Yes her words are in the evidence files of the trial but are they real evidence people believe? uh.. no..

Words and stories alone aren't enough unless something backs them up.. IMO

Congratulations! The DA will make sure you never have to serve as a juror on a rape case.

 

[BirdycatNY]

Rape allegations haunt Bill Cosby in the digital age
By Todd Leopold and Ben Brumfield, CNN
updated 11:45 AM EST, Sat November 15, 2014

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/showbiz/tv/bill-cosby-rape-allegations/

"In the case of Andrea Constand, who sued Cosby in 2005 over an incident the year before, Cosby says the sex was consensual."