Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

[Wondergirl]

BBM Yes! This is what I don't understand. His posse could easily pin these women down to dates or time periods in an attempt to discredit them, but that's not happening. He should be suing them for slander/libel so fast their heads spin off their bodies. And not necessarily for money (although a few of the women are wealthy) but to clear his name. But he's not.

Why would he passively sit by and watch his career and name tank? He has millions, why isn't he fighting this? It's obviously not going away, yet still he remains silent.

Exactly

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Reminder again that you can't settle criminal charges. He settled civil charges, avoiding a civil trial and probably getting confidentiality in return. But if the women wanted to go forward and the prosecutor felt there was a case, he could have been prosecuted. I just feel that sometimes those concepts get confused and it makes our legal system look atrocious if people perceive you can buy your way out of criminal responsibility that easily if you have tons of money.

Point well taken. I don't think anyone here is confusing the concepts, however. The civil suit gave Cosby the opportunity to have his day in court if the accusations were false. He chose not to take that opportunity.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

"What’s Left for Bill Cosby to Lose?"

"His High Horse

Cosby scored a lot of points by bashing urban blacks with the same tired talking points you find your drunk uncle spouting off during holiday gatherings. He was so loved for his remarks it has spurred Rush Limbaugh to allege a conspiracy. But Cosby has been bashed by comics before for his squeaky clean material. Eddie Murphy did it best. But an alleged serial rapist would find very little country for social commentary, regardless of whether or not they were once one of America’s most beloved pitchmen."

More at link: http://www.boston.com/news/opinion/...-cosby-lose/sgfGLvP8yvBNtwoW7yTuOK/story.html

 

[janestnycrk4]

well i believe these ladies. it's too bad there is hardly any justice for these type of cases. why try and press charges just to be humilated again and not to be believed.

 

[CuriousPortlander]

Bill Cosby and only Bill Cosby can save Bill Cosby: Phillip Morris
November 28, 2014 at 4:44 PM

...Bill Cosby is now the emperor without clothes. Cliff Huxtable, the lovable, American dad from the '80s sitcom starring Cosby, is dead – killed by the alleged actions of the man who created him.

Extreme revulsion and shock are some of the most registered public reactions. The 77-year-old comic, who was on the victory lap of his wildly celebrated life, has suddenly been rendered mute and tragic. The man who once had something to say about any subject imaginable now stands silent behind his lawyers and public relations team as his legacy burns.

His representatives continue to deny the sexual allegations – which now number 16 women – as age-old, unsubstantiated, and baseless. But the avalanche continues to grow – and the number of institutions, corporations, universities, and individuals that once revered Cosby are quickly fading to black. We’ve never seen anything quite like this.

...

America’s dad knows the truth. He must confront the truth and share the truth. He owes us his voice. He should speak now - or forever hold his peace and endure the universal judgment of his silence.

Read more: http://www.cleveland.com/morris/index.ssf/2014/11/bill_cosby_and_only_bill_cosby.html

 

[lawstudent]

I agree that Cosby chose to forego a civil trial, but civil trials are so different from criminal ones that it wouldn't necessarily help him out whether he was guilty or not. They are about how much legal responsibility the parties had and how much money is needed to make up for it. With a low standard of proof. After this long with the evidence being only testimonial, he may have 'won' but it's not like there's some acquittal declaring him not guilty. Civil trials don't usually focus on specific allegations of conduct like under a criminal statute. That's why the ones about these type of issues almost always settle - it's just an expensive mess for everyone. They're set up more for the trial of business disputes where no one has to be 'guilty' but costs have to be allocated and all that.

 

[BirdycatNY]

well i believe these ladies. it's too bad there is hardly any justice for these type of cases. why try and press charges just to be humiliated again and not to be believed.

It's difficult enough for some victims to just talk to anyone about it, in part, for fear of not being believed, let alone in court...great point. We need to talk to the younger generation more about these things, so they are aware that rape, date rape and being roofied exists and more common than we think. Hopefully if we can give girls and boys the confidence or the basic tools to better protect/avoid situations we can prevent it more. Even if nothing happens to BC (or allegations are not proven), we can better educate kids and that's why it's extremely important for victims to talk about it. It was important for example, for the victims of Sandusky to share their story, as difficult as I am sure it was, because it may help them heal, but it also helps communities better understand and protect kids just to know these types exist. jmo. Victims should seek justice but even if justice isn't served, their voices matter and help.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Further thoughts on self-righteous.

It seems to me that the sentiment "well all of you can just believe these accusers with no evidence but *I* will refuse to believe them without proof" connotes that the one expressing said sentiment is superior by holding oneself to a higher standard of proof than those of us who believe the victims. In other words, self-righteous IMO.

It also seems to me that "proof" in this case is defined as physical evidence only.

There is plenty of proof to support the claims:

1. Beth Ferrier passed a lie detector test. Upon learning of this, Cosby exchanged an exclusive interview with the National Enquirer for quashing the story they were going to run about her accusations.
2. Janice Dickinson has provided Polaroids of the night in question that corroborate what she says happened.
3. Several contemporaries of the victims have corroborated that the victims confided in them what happened contemporaneously.
4. Frank Scotti's descriptions.
5. Cosby admitting that he said things he hoped would lead to Andrea Constand not being believed.

That's just off the top of my head.

Our lawyers and law students here can correct me, but if I am not mistaken all of these would be considered evidence in a court of law. Not the results of Ferrier's lie detector test, of course, but Cosby's actions in light of being informed that she had passed it.

 

[Snoods]

well i believe these ladies. it's too bad there is hardly any justice for these type of cases. why try and press charges just to be humilated again and not to be believed.

BBM I wouldn't. I didn't. First time I've ever admitted this to anyone, ever. I just wanted it to go away. If I never mention it, it never happened, right? I'd seen what happened to other women who press rape charges, and I had skeletons in my closet. No way did I want to put myself and my family through that. Hell, no. Somewhere out there is a rapist that I could have possibly stopped, but I didn't. And I despise myself for it.

I don't let my own experience cloud my judgement, and I know false rape charges can happen. But I absolutely believe these women. This kind of "fame" isn't what these older, settled into their lives women want. I think they are incredibly brave for coming forward.

ETA: Ack. I want to delete this post, but I'm not.

 

[Charlie09]

Further thoughts on self-righteous.

It seems to me that the sentiment "well all of you can just believe these accusers with no evidence but *I* will refuse to believe them without proof" connotes that the one expressing said sentiment is superior by holding oneself to a higher standard of proof than those of us who believe the victims. In other words, self-righteous IMO.

It also seems to me that "proof" in this case is defined as physical evidence only.

There is plenty of proof to support the claims:

1. Beth Ferrier passed a lie detector test. Upon learning of this, Cosby exchanged an exclusive interview with the National Enquirer for quashing the story they were going to run about her accusations.
2. Janice Dickinson has provided Polaroids of the night in question that corroborate what she says happened.
3. Several contemporaries of the victims have corroborated that the victims confided in them what happened contemporaneously.
4. Frank Scotti's descriptions.
5. Cosby admitting that he said things he hoped would lead to Andrea Constand not being believed.

That's just off the top of my head.

Our lawyers and law students here can correct me, but if I am not mistaken all of these would be considered evidence in a court of law. Not the results of Ferrier's lie detector test, of course, but Cosby's actions in light of being informed that she had passed it.

so, if more than one person accuses anyone of anything it should be accepted at face value and that person shouldn't have to answer in the legal system, just the press?

 

[pomegranate]

BBM I wouldn't. I didn't. First time I've ever admitted this to anyone, ever. I just wanted it to go away. If I never mention it, it never happened, right? I'd seen what happened to other women who press rape charges, and I had skeletons in my closet. No way did I want to put myself and my family through that. Hell, no. Somewhere out there is a rapist that I could have possibly stopped, but I didn't. And I despise myself for it.

I don't let my own experience cloud my judgement, and I know false rape charges can happen. But I absolutely believe these women. This kind of "fame" isn't what these older, settled into their lives women want. I think they are incredibly brave for coming forward.

ETA: Ack. I want to delete this post, but I'm not.

You are very courageous for sharing this, and for not deleting it even though you are tempted. I have experienced two sexual assaults throughout my life that I chose not to report. I don't know if I made the right decisions or not, probably not. Like you, I carry guilt for not trying to stop potential future assaults. At the time of the first incident, I was very young. I told my then-boyfriend what happened, and he called me a *advertiser censored* and dumped me for "cheating" on him. The second incident happened very recently. I told a very close male friend, who got angry with me and insisted that I must be lying to him about the circumstances. I wasn't. Both times I feel that I had put myself in a dangerous situation by making bad decisions. I know that I didn't ask for or deserve what happened to me, but if I had been smarter it wouldn't have happened. Both times, the people I trusted most didn't believe me, so why would I expect strangers to believe me? I have very conflicting feelings about both incidents. I carry a lot of guilt, anger, shame, self-loathing......it's all very complicated.

I shared that information to say that I understand why some of Cosby's accusers may have been reluctant to come forward until other accusations had been made public. As others have said, I believe that when there is this much smoke, there's bound to be a little fire. Unless you have been the victim of a sexual assault, I don't think you can truly understand that it isn't always a clear cut situation to deal with. Just talking about it to a trusted friend can make you feel ashamed and violated all over again. I can't even imagine talking about it publicly when you know that everything you say and everything you have done in the past is going to be under scrutiny.

 

[Trino]

What do the accusers want from Cosby in 2014?
1. To ruin his reputation? DONE
2. Class action civil suit. This is money. If they file, they want money.

Do we know every one of these women is being truthful?

 

[Truthy]

I see this as a dangerous way to to bring attention to an issue. The legal system should be the venue, not whispers and partial memories. If even one person is lying they should be called out as publicly as he is...it's as much as a disservice to victims of sex abuse as abusers. I think it should matter if the accuser's stories be verified.



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The legal system failed these women before, and would likely fail women in the same situation today. Unless they were able to videotape while knocked unconscious AND were the perfect victims, there would be no prosecution.
And that is exactly why I think it is great it is being discussed so widely now.

 

[Charlie09]

The legal system failed these women before, and would likely fail women in the same situation today. Unless they were able to videotape while knocked unconscious AND were the perfect victims, there would be no prosecution.
And that is exactly why I think it is great it is being discussed so widely now.

if they were as you say knocked unconscious, how is it known what happened?

 

[Truthy]

The legal system ensures that he cannot be incarcerated, fined, forced to pay damages etc without due process. It does not give him the inalienable birthright to a spotless, perfect reputation nor the right to have everyone think that he is not a creep.

He could have challenged the women in court in 2005 but he chose not to and settled instead.

The legal system is there for him: if he feels he has been defamed he's got the resources to sue everyone.

Great points.

 

[Truthy]

if they were as you say knocked unconscious, how is it known what happened?

Perhaps you need to actually read some of the accounts, as most of us discussing them already have. I think it would help you much more than any of us here.

 

[Charlie09]

Perhaps you need to actually read some of the accounts, as most of us discussing them already have. I think it would help you much more than any of us here.

I'm commenting on your post and what you said.

 

[Catmommy]

if they were as you say knocked unconscious, how is it known what happened?

Probably because he wasn't wearing a condom or cleaning up after himself, if you really want to know.

 

[Donjeta]

so, if more than one person accuses anyone of anything it should be accepted at face value and that person shouldn't have to answer in the legal system, just the press?

I don't believe anyone in this thread has said or implied that. I think most reasonable people want rapists prosecuted and doing serious jail time. However, due to several factors that have been widely discussed in this thread it's a hard crime to prosecute and therefore there are lots of them out and about and free to rape again and considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

If and when allegations that haven't been tested in court crop up in the press it's up to everybody who is not a court of law to make up their own mind whether they believe it or not.

The last time I checked I was not a court of law and my beliefs have no power or effect on Bill Cosby's life whatsoever so I can say that personally I believe the women. I have seen some of them on videotaped interviews and I found them believable. I don't need to see them in a court of law to find them more believable than Bill Cosby in the AP interview. Cosby didn't even bother to deny the allegations, he just jumped right in and started threatening the reporter and made completely unjustified remarks about how the reporter lacked integrity for asking the questions. It seemed to fit perfectly into the personality that came out of the women's stories.

The women's stories flowed and made sense to me, I didn't have any red flags going up and I thought I saw genuine emotion on their faces. It's been so long ago and what with the statute of limitations and lack of evidence after all these years there's little that they could hope to gain, and for the most part I don't believe that these ladies, some of whom are in their seventies, crave the kind of notoriety that you get from saying Bill Cosby raped me. Barbara Bowman seemed genuinely disgusted and emotionally affected when she talked about her experiences. The actress Michelle Hurd is very believable to me because she doesn't seem to be a publicity hound in the least, despite her profession, one article about her described her as fiercely private and said even her wedding date is not general knowledge. I even believe Janice Dickinson. The main reason for many commenters for not believing her seemed to be, "oh but she's so crazy and i never liked her so she must be lying" but I don't believe crazy people are the least bit immune from getting raped and I don't even know why she's supposed to be crazy so I could give her the benefit of the doubt. I thought she seemed disgusted when talking about it and not happy and gleeful about the extra press it would give her. She's not a stranger to the media circuit so she'd have known that such a story would generate some major unpleasantness. And well, if they were lying I think some of them would have made up a story that portrayed themselves in a better light and opened them for fewer attacks.

Purely subjective but, well, there you go, people's beliefs are largely subjective overall, even the people who sit in the jury may be influenced by things like that.

I'm not going to go to any Bill Cosby stand up shows or buy any of his records or boxed sets from now on but it's not going to ruin his finances, I wasn't doing any of that even before I heard of the allegations. So I think it makes little difference to Cosby what I believe but if Janice Dickinson happens to be reading, I believe you.

 

[BirdycatNY]

...
And well, if they were lying I think some of them would have made up a story that portrayed themselves in a better light and opened them for fewer attacks.
...

That's an excellent point.