Rape And Molestation Charges Filed

[Sassygerl]

Imo, parents should know where their children are at all times, especially that age. When my grandson stayed with me at age 9, he had to tell me where he was going and I would tell him when to be back. He had to make frequent check ins when he was riding his bike. every 1/2 hour and there were boundaries he could not cross. He had to stay on our block.

Truth be told I would feel more comfortable with my child telling me he was going to a friends for 4 hours than riding around on his bike. What a shame this happened at a friends house...by a mother...OMG!!!!! My boys spend hours at their friends. My 10 year old calls when he arrives, and calls before he leaves. There are hours in between during that time period. Who would ever even dream their friends mother would kill your child? Sick sick sick. I refuse to cage my children. We discuss on a regular basis stranger danger, but in this case it wasn't even a stranger. Poor little Sandra really had no clue she was in such danger I'm sure

 

[Viki]

Bolded by me ...

This news makes me sick to my stomach! Reading your post, what came to my mind was M.Jackson. He seemed to only want to be around young children as they were his real life friends. Could this be the case with MH?

Absolutely the same thing.

One of the reasons female sexual predators so often skim below the radar is that our culture for generations revered the child-like woman, one described to perfection by Melissa's family and friends (amazing with children, wonderful parent, mother hen at family gatherings). We do NOT feel comfortable with the same qualities in men, thus are much more likely to find behavior such as Michael's suspicious.

In both cases, however, what you've probably got are infantile adults who never matured into adult passions. That doesn't mean they can't be very bright - smart has nothing to do with it - it's their emotional processes which remain stunted. It also doesn't mean they're not clever. When you have to live a lie on a daily basis you become very clever!

 

[Ames]

Sorry if this has already been discussed. It was reported that Sandra was raped and murdered, in the church! There is a special place in hell reserved for Melissa.

 

[MoonFlwr]

Sorry if this has already been discussed. It was reported that Sandra was raped and murdered, in the church! There is a special place in hell reserved for Melissa.

Oh my!

Do you have a link to a news article we can read on that? Or was that on tv?

 

[jblfelines]

Sorry if this has already been discussed. It was reported that Sandra was raped and murdered, in the church! There is a special place in hell reserved for Melissa.

Lets hope she gets the DP and goes right to hel*.

 

[momtective]

Sorry if this has already been discussed. It was reported that Sandra was raped and murdered, in the church! There is a special place in hell reserved for Melissa.

Amen Sista!

 

[elle1919]

Oh my!

Do you have a link to a news article we can read on that? Or was that on tv?

Hi there, there is a thread called The Church here on this forum that will give you a plethera of info.

 

[Reannan]

Sure! :laugh: That's when the kids think the parents SUCK!! (I think I'm gonna form a support group....)

Thanks..... I needed that little bit of humor! :blowkiss:

 

[marylandmissing]

SS...You might remember me going semi-ballistic several days ago concerning the California Amber Alert Guidelines. It is time for ALL states to come together on the guidelines! That means the average citizen must get involved. It might save their own children someday. The following are the guidelines in Tennessee. I Bolded what is the big difference that allows our state to issue an alert and have the age come into play.

Hawk, the Amber Alert is the same in every state...Before it went national, state clearinghouses sat down and made the criteria..

 

[Kat]

i read the news here....but wanted to ask.....

http://www.ktvu.com/news/19167988/detail.html#-


the special circumstances of rape with a foreign object
what do you think they mean by special circumstances? could she have died in the car on the way to the church....but the sicko raped her still after she died......

and murder in the course of a kidnapping
what do they mean by in the course of a kidnapping? does that mean she died after she left the house...that because she went to the house on her own....it wasn't kidnapping until she took her to the church? and maybe died in the car on the way there?

i hate to even ask these questions...it is soooo sad and makes me sick...and hard to talk about....

Takenote, I spent about a half an hour this morning looking up what the definition of special circumstances in penal code in the state of CA means, and found that penal code and statutes in CA are not as clearly worded and easy to read as other states such as IL.

From what I have been able to determine, the special circumstances in this case refers to the fact that the rape with a foreign object is listed in the penal code for rape in a subsection (I guess so that it can be included in the prosecution of rape) and also she commited the felony crimes of murder and kidnapping. I don't see that we can discern any of the crime from the way the penal code and/or statutes are worded.

So in an around about way, to answer your question, I think that the use of the terminology "special circumstances" refers to the fact that the rape with a foreign object falls in a sub category of the rape statute and was commited in conjunction with other felony crimes.

I could be wrong though, I'm not educated in law.

 

[Fairfaux08]

You're too kind, NRN. There's no need to feel sorry for a former victim who goes on to abuse others. Evil is a choice, not a compulsion.

We certainly wouldn't feel sorry for a man who beats his puppy just because his father used to beat him. Why feel sorry for any woman or man who chooses to abuse a child just because he/she experienced abuse as a child? These people should know better than anyone how it feels. This, IMO, makes them exceptionally evil. JMO, of course.

I take issue with this analogy, but first, I have to ask the question that I used to ask my kids - when they make the reference of "we," who they are speaking up for? Surely, not all of us, I hope? Why is it assumed that because of the heinous actions of the criminal that one should have to act tyrannical in return? I have to wonder if the "Golden Rule" can apply here because there may be many of us who have never even contemplated the harm that MH allegedly did to SC. So, how can one assume that it is either a choice or a compulsion? Was there a credible resource that was used for this part of your argument? Surely, persons who commit such actions should be removed and society protected. But the way I perceived the post was that it was not so much about kindness as it was about realizing that there is just so much more to understand about the aberrations of human behavior.

 

[Kat]

I thought this conversation would come up. It is one that I have difficulty with, because I do not see a woman or man that perpetrates sexual abuse upon another human being especially a child, as being able to use the defense of "I was molested myself".

It is a defense strategy in my eyes. It is not supported by statistics that the reason these offenders offend is that they themselves were molested.

One source that I found states that:

38% of girls are sexually abused before the age of 18.

(link: http://www.womenofsubstance.org/sexabuse.htm )

Then we have this statistic:

"More than a third of the women in state prisons and jails say they were physically or sexually abused as children, twice the rate of child abuse reported by women overall, the Justice Department said today..."

(link: http://www.nytimes.com/1999/04/12/u...in-jail-say-they-were-abused-as-children.html )

Someone else posted from wikipedia that the statistic of women that commit sexual crimes against female children is something like 6%.

I think it's important to seperate an explanation of possible causes of this type of crime with justification and acceptence of those causes.

From what I have seen the prior experience of having been sexually molested or assaulted as a child does is not supported statistically in predicting that those people will commit the same crime against another child, or that they will commit any crimes of any nature.

Purely subjective experience, has taught me that I have met more women than I can recall to count that were loving, law-abiding, productive and contributing citizens to society that experienced themselves this type of crime against them as children.

I think that experiencing sexual abuse as a child can be life altering and can possibly lead to many psychological difficulties during adulthood but by no means is an indicator of potential crimes.

This may be a mitigating factor that will be presented to the courts during the course of her defense, but it by no means justifies or excuses the rape and murder of Sandra or any other child for that matter.

As always my heartfelt if very strongly worded opinion.

 

[darlin gal]

Takenote, I spent about a half an hour this morning looking up what the definition of special circumstances in penal code in the state of CA means, and found that penal code and statutes in CA are not as clearly worded and easy to read as other states such as IL.

From what I have been able to determine, the special circumstances in this case refers to the fact that the rape with a foreign object is listed in the penal code for rape in a subsection (I guess so that it can be included in the prosecution of rape) and also she commited the felony crimes of murder and kidnapping. I don't see that we can discern any of the crime from the way the penal code and/or statutes are worded.

So in an around about way, to answer your question, I think that the use of the terminology "special circumstances" refers to the fact that the rape with a foreign object falls in a sub category of the rape statute and was commited in conjunction with other felony crimes.

I could be wrong though, I'm not educated in law.

Murder in CA will get you 25 to life. Meaning you will eventually come up for parole.

Rape and kidnapping are considered "special circumstances". They are felonies and murder that occurs in commission of other felonies is considered murder with "special circumstances."

Special circumstances must exist in order for a murder to be death penalty eligible. Which means if the prosecution decides to try it as a DP case and she is found guilty of first degree murder with special circumstances, she then goes to the penalty phase.

The jury's choice with them be the DP or life without possibility of parole. Those are their only choices.


CA Kidnapping Statues:
Kidnapping

Kidnapping is forcibly, or by using fear, taking or holding or detaining a person, and carrying the person from one place to another. Kidnapping by persuading, enticing, or seducing a child under the age of 14 with misrepresentations or false promises also constitutes criminal kidnapping under California law. The California kidnapping law also specifically prohibits kidnapping of any person adult or child by making misrepresentations or false promises, if the intent is to sell the person into slavery or involuntary servitude or to use or employ the person for one's own purposes. Kidnapping for ransom or extortion, and kidnapping during a carjacking, are more severe crimes that carry additional penalties. All forms of kidnapping are felonies.

She could have simply said, ride to the church with me and hang decorations. That's persuading with misrepresentation or false promises.

From one place to another could be as simple as from the street to the van. Or not letting her leave the trailer.

It's the fact, not the distance.

 

[Fairfaux08]

...Purely subjective experience, has taught me that I have met more women than I can recall to count that were loving, law-abiding, productive and contributing citizens to society that experienced themselves this type of crime against them as children.

I think that experiencing sexual abuse as a child can be life altering and can possibly lead to many psychological difficulties during adulthood but by no means is an indicator of potential crimes....

Affected by female molestation: last evening actress Marlee Matlin revealed on CNN's "Larry King" (guest hosted by Joy Behar), that she had been molested by a female babysitter and how it led her to drug use.http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/04/14/lkl.marlee.matlin/index.html

 

[amysmom]

She is truly EVIL cos nothing else can possibly explain this most EVIL act to me!

It may, in fact, be some form of MI but I'll still NEVER accept her as anything but :devil:

 

[Kat]

Affected by female molestation: last evening actress Marlee Matlin revealed on CNN's "Larry King" (guest hosted by Joy Behar), that she had been molested by a female babysitter and how it led her to drug use.http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/04/14/lkl.marlee.matlin/index.html

I'm sorry to hear the Ms. Matlin experienced that as a child. It sounds as if she did have psychological difficulties into adulthood. Most do, from what I've seen first hand. From what I have seen, most women that suffer with the repercussions of this type of crime choose behaviors that are self punishing/self abusive rather than acting out against others.

I think there is a lot more that goes into the making of a sexual predator than having experienced that abuse as a child. JMHO

 

[LaLaw2000]

Statistics can be quoted all day long, but this was an anomaly (sp). I believe that MH is in a special catagory of her own. This crime has infuriated all who have heard about it. That is not to say that other crimes against children have not, but this was especially horrid.

I agree with whomever posted that having been abused as a child is no excuse to abuse as an adult. There is no excuse.

 

[Kat]

To add another thought, I hope that others that were abused in this manner will come forward to share their experience, so that it is no longer shrouded in a veil of secrecy, and that way experts can get to the root of just how prevelent it is and look for ways to prevent.

 

[har30black]

Just snipping it down to something that needs clarifying: I'm not necessarily judging the parenting. My mind was running more along the possiblity that it wasn't Sandra who was drugged by MH in the past. Had she tried this on another child? There is anecdotal information that it was Sandra who was drugged, but not more.

I hope and pray that they check with each and every child in the MHP and find out if there are more victims. If so, add those charges as well.........and most importantly get those children the help and therapy they need!

 

[Salem]

I have seen the discrepancy about her having child/children. It is odd. It sounds like it is possible, but no one has been able to come up with more than the 5 year old so far. (IIRC, it was mentioned that her 5 yo was the "oldest" somewhere.)

We do need a rumor thread so we can figure these things out.

Hey SS and Daisy - I started this rumor :crazy: I was reading an article that implied that MH was pregnant in both 2003 and then 2004. The article was just badly edited. Nurse found a more complete article that explained it much better. IT DOES APPEAR THERE IS ONLY THE ONE PREGNANCY AND CHILD, Little M.

I'm sorry for the confusion. :blowkiss: I will find the article (its a few pages back and add it here).

Salem

ETA: Here's the article: http://www.mercurynews.com/crime/ci_12135348?nclick_check=1

(Thanks Nurse ) The timing discussion starts about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way down with a paragraph that starts "In 2002, ........"