Raymond Clark III

[PrayersForMaura]

Anyone reading the post CAREFULLY, will see that I'm just speculating about apparent discrepancy in his behavior from high school to now. I did not say anywhere that people with mental health issues are killers. I do know what you are saying all too well, I'm well versed in social and social science issues. As I indicated at the bottom of my theory, it is all just speculation, opinion, etc. And in addition, I included a lot of caveats in my theory. It shouldn't be taken personally by anyone, sorry that you took it as such. Here's hoping you and your sister are doing well. Peace be unto you

Thanks for the kind words.

i have seen several posts made from various people about the dog in the crate. I wasn't meaning to single out your post... I have many dogs and love, love, love them!! I feel guilt crating them but the vet says he crates his golden retriever and there is nothing wrong with it.

I honestly am not offended when people post or just want to discuss that! I just want to help educate and hopefully help squash the notion that leaving a dog or cat or any animal in a crate is not necessarily cruel or hateful.

I actually wonder about Ray's dog. I hope whomever has him or her is taking care of the poor thing. His owner may be an accused murder, but to the dog, he was the master.

I'm a big animal lover and often wonder when people die, are murdered -- even with the victims of 911 -- I'd wondered what happened to their pets and if someone took care of them or just gave them away or had them put down.

I am sorry to go off topic here, but am a huge animal lover and always worry about what happens to them

 

[PrayersForMaura]

They are talking about Ray on CNN right now. He has long-time friends saying they can't believe he is guilty.... this is not the Ray they know.

 

[Sanddollar14]

Aquarius - I figured. But when are they going to stop posting SS# on docs available via the internet? Arrgghh. Hello? ID theft! They need to redact the SS# NOW.

I doubt if RC has to worry about anyone wanting his identity!!!

 

[MaggieMom]

i have seen several posts made from various people about the dog in the crate. I wasn't meaning to single out your post... I have many dogs and love, love, love them!! I feel guilt crating them but the vet says he crates his golden retriever and there is nothing wrong with it.

Totally off topic but.... I had to sign an agreement that I would crate train my dog when I adopted her from a rescue organization. Not only is there nothing wrong with crating--it is now considered to be the right thing to do.

 

[Normcar21]

Below are a few responses to some of the recent posts that I have read over the last few pages. Loads of things have happened over the past 24 hours and this case just continues to attract attention, this one is definitely unique in many respects.

Any "me" comments are IMO only, and looking in from a back room as I have only begun to really attempt to glean some of the information relative to this case. It's definitely a magnet, and I just finished watching LK Live and Clark's friends, one being very vociferous about the arraigned young man. Of course, it is understandable that he wishes to defend his childhood buddy.

Passionflower said (post#183)

- I still think Annie gave ORDERS to him about how she expected her mice to be taken care of and he lost it! Plus I still think he had a thing for her and she rejected him many times..........IMO

Me - that really struck me as a distinct possibility, the way you worded it.

MWright said (post 188)

- And the coach at the high school doesn't remember him as being an athlete.

Me - Indeed, he doesn't look especially "perked" by steroids in any way, he seems to have a relatively average build for someone his age who remains active and participates in sports. I see that sort of build on a daily basis as I photograph high school sporting events. I doubt that all of these kids are on steroids.

Jersey said (post 193)

- 5'9 and 190lbs is overweight ... Not to be taken out of context. I myself don't think he was on steroids based on his belly fat alone. You can see it in his pictures.

Me - exactly!IMO

Stilettos said (post 194)

- Annie was very, very tiny. AT her weight...that 190lb man on top of her would probably make it difficult for her to breathe.

Me - Did I read somewhere that Annie was fit? Small and fit makes for a very able defender of self, IMO, at least enough to do a whole lotta scratching and maybe even some biting against a 190 pound BMI index failure. The 190 pound fella may win the battle, but not without some damage, perhaps about 250 pieces of evidential damage?

 

[amysmom]

Does anyone know, or has anyone read, anything about his family life? Are his parents still together...or divorced? If divorced, when did they split? Are they still in the picture? Are they close with their children? This is just an idea but I'm trying to find if something changed in his personal life (on a large scale) between the time he ended hs up til now.

I read ?? his childhood home was in a middle class neighborood but then it became a rundown area so his parents moved to the town where the motel 6 is.

 

[passionflower]

O/T SELF DEFENSE!
ALWAYS GO FOR THE EYES!
eyes of any HUMAN/animal is so sensitive, that they will let you go and run!
Spray, gouge,throw anything (even dirt) at eyes.
It worked even on a shark in the ocean.
I read this and just wanted to pass it on!

 

[passionflower]

Steroids, nope....to flabby.......just saw the pix in court

Tatoos.........bondage look?

 

[passionflower]

on NG one doctor said that many of these killers are classified as "KEEPER OF THE RULES"real control freaks that meltdown over any rule broken........example was BTK killer measured peoples grass and gave citations if the grass was to long........WOW

 

[Normcar21]

MWright said (post 213)

Many of RC's high school friends seem to remember him as being a nice guy, if a bit shy.

However, many of RCs current neighbors (although not all) describe him quite oppositely (yells at kids, keeps pit bulls locked up, etc.)

Why this discrepancy?

Me - I have heard the same and have asked myself the same sort of question. My answer to myself is that he is full of insecurity that only manifests itself when control is lost. A challenge to his personal space and authority would perhaps have inspired the "switch" to be hit and the Jekyl then turns into the Hyde. It would appear to me that these seeming contradictory reports indicate that he indeed had a control issue with his ying/yang, light/dark/ cool/hot, nasty/lovely, love/hate sort of thing. I'm not sure that drugs, alcohol, tattoos, or other, are necessary for this sort of thing to become manifest. Great thoughts, and I agree with you that this "dual personality" thing is definitely interesting in a subjective sort of way.

PrayersForMaura responded (post 214)

I have mental health issues and am not a killer. My sister who passed away was schizo and not a killer.

Please be careful not to lump in general "mental health condition" stereotypes.
People with mental health issues are not synonymous with being killers.

Me - I agree fully with your assessment, but I also must say that I do not believe that MWright was even beginning to lump and/or stereotype. IMO every individual on this planet has control issues to deal with and some are able to check a negative response before it goes to the "out of control" realm. I have personally both screwed up or been successful with that sort of thing. I'm sure that everyone here has done the same. From what I have read, it appears to me that RC was on the short track to disaster because he was not attempting any longer to distinguish between the "bad" responses and the "better" ones. The "high school" sweetheart stuff seems to have been tackled by the "not so sweet" heart personality, and it appears that he wasn't attempting to challenge or stop this personality takeover. He spent most of his time with the rats...in the basement...all by himself. That probably didn't help.

 

[Normcar21]

on NG one doctor said that many of these killers are classified as "KEEPER OF THE RULES"real control freaks that meltdown over any rule broken........example was BTK killer measured peoples grass and gave citations if the grass was to long........WOW

The difference between BTK and this young man, IMO, is the control of self. BTK was simply playing a game in his own mind, he was a complete psychopath and saw nothing really nasty in what he was doing, as long as he was personally getting something from it.

I wouldn't place this kid in the same game and even on the same level. He just "lost it" IMO, and committed a crime that he probably never dreamt he was capable of committing. Now it's too late.

On the "most evil" scale, compliments of Dr. M. Stone, I would guess that these two individuals are as contrasting as charcoal and snow.

MOO

 

[nursebeeme]

Norm, I completely agree with what you said right down to the charcoal and the snow!

 

[passionflower]

The difference between BTK and this young man, IMO, is the control of self. BTK was simply playing a game in his own mind, he was a complete psychopath and saw nothing really nasty in what he was doing, as long as he was personally getting something from it.

I wouldn't place this kid in the same game and even on the same level. He just "lost it" IMO, and committed a crime that he probably never dreamt he was capable of committing. Now it's too late.

On the "most evil" scale, compliments of Dr. M. Stone, I would guess that these two individuals are as contrasting as charcoal and snow.

MOO

She wasn't comparing the 2.
She only gave an example of how the KEEPER of the RULES people think about the RULES..........

 

[eyes4crime]

The difference between BTK and this young man, IMO, is the control of self. BTK was simply playing a game in his own mind, he was a complete psychopath and saw nothing really nasty in what he was doing, as long as he was personally getting something from it.

I wouldn't place this kid in the same game and even on the same level. He just "lost it" IMO, and committed a crime that he probably never dreamt he was capable of committing. Now it's too late.

On the "most evil" scale, compliments of Dr. M. Stone, I would guess that these two individuals are as contrasting as charcoal and snow.

MOO

Normcar21 - I can't help but feel defensive regarding Annie's murder. Some people place her perp in the same category as BTK (bind - torture - kill) and that's the comparison a defense attorney would make to minimize the murder of Annie. Much like putting her murder in a category of work place violence. My opinion only, both serve to minimize the crime. People will feel sorry for this guy - his attorney will make sure that's how he is portrayed...I WILL not hook into that game. mho

 

[JBean]

quick public service announcement.
if you want o quote several people and respond to them
click the icon with the little quotation marks on the bottom right of each post you want to quote. It will turn red.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/multiquote_off.gif



then hit post reply and each quote will be in your post with the author of each post you are quoting and then you can add your comments underneath. The reason this is helpful is because:
1. it is less work for you
2.People can click the arrow in each quote and go back to the original post if they want to see context
3. It is clear who said what.
another explanation:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2183552&postcount=2"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Multiple Quotes[/ame]
Hope that helps.

 

[Normcar21]

Normcar21 - I can't help but feel defensive regarding Annie's murder. Some people place her perp in the same category as BTK (bind - torture - kill) and that's the comparison a defense attorney would make to minimize the murder of Annie. Much like putting her murder in a category of work place violence. My opinion only, both serve to minimize the crime. People will feel sorry for this guy - his attorney will make sure that's how he is portrayed...I WILL not hook into that game. mho

I agree, a defense will focus on the youth of this individual, his lack of a criminal record, just like BTK, a member of a church and part of the administration of that church. Big difference, IMO, is the length of time and the numbers as regards BTK. I followed that maniac extensively, and he was a psychotic. His main complaint was that LE wasn't honest with him about the ability of LE to trace a computer disk, for "X" sakes.

As for feeling sorry, well, I do feel sorry for this kid. I do not feel sorry for BTK. I think something went haywire with this kid (background wise) and I honestly do not think that he should fry or be charged with first degree murder. I believe that BTK should die immediately in a nasty way, but apparently, from what I have heard, he has been released from execution because of some crap nut state rules of death row criminals.

It PISSES me off to no end that BTK gets to sit around in some cushy prison forever. This Clark kid probably won't get it so cushy because he is not so inherently "nasty". BTK's soul is black, Clark's soul probably remains intact to some degree, IMO.

 

[Kat]

I'm not sure that it's even logical to compare this offender with BTK.

BTK (Dennis Rader) was a serial killer. He had extreme pathology. He was a Psychopath/Sociopath/Antisocial Personality Disorder.

We don't know enough about this offender to even make a guess as to what his psychological state is much less compare him to someone of Radar's ilk.

I don't doubt he's got some issues but none that I would expect that could even be remotely used as a defense.

Nope IMHO he murdered Annie, we don't know why yet. But really, when it all boils down to it~ is there ever a logical or reasonable explanation for murder?

Not in my opinion there isn't.

 

[Normcar21]

KAT said

I'm not sure that it's even logical to compare this offender with BTK.

Me - I am POSITIVE that such a comparison would be crazy.

 

[annkitty0630]

The difference between BTK and this young man, IMO, is the control of self. BTK was simply playing a game in his own mind, he was a complete psychopath and saw nothing really nasty in what he was doing, as long as he was personally getting something from it.

I wouldn't place this kid in the same game and even on the same level. He just "lost it" IMO, and committed a crime that he probably never dreamt he was capable of committing. Now it's too late.

On the "most evil" scale, compliments of Dr. M. Stone, I would guess that these two individuals are as contrasting as charcoal and snow.

MOO

:waitasec::furious: You can never compare BTK with this youngin!! I thoroughly agree, how silly!!! Anyways to the point, this young fool had an obvious dislike for this young lady to do what he supposedly did. I don't truly believe he ever intended to do what he did, it was 100% spur of the moment and he COMPLETELY LOST IT!!!! Now he is doe eyed wondering what the heck he did and what happened to the life he knew??? He was hoping know one would figure it out and it happened to be on surveillance tapes and records of every individual that worked there. OOPS!!!! Control is to hard to hide!!! Shame on him, hopes he rots!!!

 

[Kat]

KAT said

I'm not sure that it's even logical to compare this offender with BTK.

Me - I am POSITIVE that such a comparison would be crazy.

LOL normcar...well said. I concur. :yes: